Blue Steel - future opponent?
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2008-09-02 18:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
Keep smiling and ignoring the fact that they should be all over Steel and Skyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't recall many Arachnos goons in those two zones - I think longbow are better off actually in zones where Arachnos are found - plus the two training zones 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I find this discussion interesting but would like to remake my point from earlier that we don't know anything about what happened yet.
After all, 2 years ago we Knew the Rikti had invaded us, whilst the Rikti Knew that the Phalanx had caused widespread devastation in their world.
Now we know that it was a Nemesis Plot to start a transdimensional war.
Today we know that Blue Steel beat the Clockwork King to the brink of death...
In the words of Lord Havelock Vetinari,
What will we know tomorrow?
[ QUOTE ]
I think you're missing my fundamental point. Sure, somebody pulls a gun and police should be empowered to open fire and if the suspect dies in the process, so be it. But then do not kick said suspect unconcious. Render them harmless, give them appropriate medical treatment and then put them through the proper judicial process. If said suspect is then found guilty, punish accordingly.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The issue with Blue Steel isn't the violence - I'd have little problem if Clockwork King had been killed resisting arrest. It's that once the man now known as the Clockwork King was subdued then Blue Steel proceeded to commit attempted murder.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming neither of you bothered to read the full backstory?
http://www.cityofheroes.com/gameinfo...clockwork.html
[ QUOTE ]
Blue Steel chased after the robots, ranging far ahead of his fellow heroes and the SWAT Team. The young man was carried through the sewers by a half dozen robots, and finally reached a �safe house,� a decrepit bungalow in Boomtown. When Blue Steel radioed back to the commissioner, he learned of the officer casualties � and a fury exploded within him. He launched himself into the bungalow.
The young man was too disoriented from the early encounter, hurt by smoke and fatigue, and could not coordinate a proper defense. Blue Steel single-handedly smashed the Sprockets to pieces, and then turned his rage upon the man, beating him into a bloody pulp. Blue Steel collapsed, exhausted and spent. He checked on the man, and felt the bile rise when he realized the man was dead. Disgusted with himself and the whole day�s tragedy, Blue Steel radioed in for the coroner and clean-up crew. With a heavy heart he left to help fight the fire. The pieces could be sorted out later.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Clockwork King was NOT defenseless, and he had NOT been subdued. He had murdered a number of police officers and fled with his robotic guards. Despite how desperately some people want to paint Blue Seel as the ultimate incarnation of evil and spite, he did nothing worse than what almost any Hero in this thread has done, or is capable of.
[ QUOTE ]
And as for Longbow, try playing the villains training mission... They really show their true colours there.
[/ QUOTE ]
And, er, yeah, you'll need to specify there. In the training missions they're trying o bring down Arachnos.
[ QUOTE ]
Bunch of stuff said by Valkryst
[/ QUOTE ]
Very well said, but shush! It's Longbow. They're terrible and evil by default! Wandering groups of heroes that randomly attack street gangs and villains for no tangible reason? You'd think that should happen in this city?
[ QUOTE ]
Your opinion differs I guess, and you're entitled, but I just can't accept your PoV
[/ QUOTE ]
My opinion does not 'sanction wanton brutality'. My opinion is that the entire scenario is utterly contrived due to the fact that the Clockwork King would have been quickly killed by any police officer given the chance to do so, and Blue Steel endangered lives, more than just his own considering the nature of the threat, by not quickly and clinically putting down the Clockwork King the very second he was in any position to do so.
There should have been no angry beating, because the Clockwork King should have already been dead of a broken neck or massive cranial trauma.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming neither of you bothered to read the full backstory?
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you should have another look.
[ QUOTE ]
He had murdered a number of police officers and fled with his robotic guards.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now, that's a skillful piece of extraction you've done, and in return, I'd like to quote the paragraph before the one you quote.
[ QUOTE ]
When the combined task force of heroes and police raided the warehouse, all hell broke loose. In the firefight that ensued, several propane tanks were ignited and the warehouse caught fire. The robots fought on, ignoring the flames. When the heroes and SWAT Team finally broke their ranks, it appeared that a number had escaped, including the young man. Tragically, three officers were killed in the fight and fire.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, Blue Steel beats the snot out of the Clockwork King, not because of the officers killed by clockwork in the past, but because of the ones killed in the fire and fight at the wharehouse. Now, if he had tracked him down to take revenge for murdered officers, then that's one thing, but BS is taking his revenge for damage inflicted on the police when the clockwork defend themselves after a mass invasion by heroes and police.
Beyond that, the boy was clearly injured, he is being carried through the sewers by his attendent sprockets.
Yes, Blue Steel is getting a bit of a hammering he may not quite deserve, but you are attempting a whitewash. CK isn't a nice guy, BS should have known way better and definately acted above and beyond the limits he should have set himself as a hero and ex-policeman.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep smiling and ignoring the fact that they should be all over Steel and Skyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't recall many Arachnos goons in those two zones - I think longbow are better off actually in zones where Arachnos are found - plus the two training zones
[/ QUOTE ]
*shrug* Again we come to a point in our discussions where I decide you aren't worth discussing anything with, GG. I guess I should learn my lesson and avoid getting into these things where you can just say the same thing over and over until people think you're right.
Valkryst made much better points. Let's leave it at that.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
So the idea of Longbow being a force to fight Arachnos, and then appearing in zones where Arachnos is present is causing you confusion? 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
So the idea of Longbow being a force to fight Arachnos, and then appearing in zones where Arachnos is present is causing you confusion?
[/ QUOTE ]
I beg to differ
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
[ QUOTE ]
Now, if he had tracked him down to take revenge for murdered officers, then that's one thing, but BS is taking his revenge for damage inflicted on the police when the clockwork defend themselves after a mass invasion by heroes and police.
[/ QUOTE ]
Er, let's go back and look at that history blurb again shall we?
[ QUOTE ]
Initially confused, and somewhat amused by the strange robots behavior and appearance, police finally took the Clockwork seriously when an officer was killed trying to prevent two Sprockets from stealing a spool of copper wire from a cable service van. The police cracked down, but the Clockwork men proved difficult to injure or contain, due to a single-minded purpose and their metallic hide. So the commissioner called in a number of favors with local heroes, including the former policeman Blue Steel, and a city-wide manhunt was undertaken.
[/ QUOTE ]
The raid took place after an officer was already killed, and the Clockwork proven hostile. The raid was not unprovoked.
I'm not attempting a whitewash. I just want people to stop gabbing off as if Blue Shield is the ultimate incarnation of corruption and police abuse here. His use of force was perhaps excessive, but he was attacking a proven murderer.
I have to wonder if you and the others condemning BS are the same guys in DND who label Drow as evil, after slaughtering an enclave of them and selling their stuff on the market. Double standards annoy the hell out of me.
[ QUOTE ]
but he was attacking a proven murderer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically, the Clockwork King didn't kill anyone; his evil, robot minion did.
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
[ QUOTE ]
Technically, the Clockwork King didn't kill anyone; his evil, robot minion did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically Blue Steel didn't hurt the Clockwork King, his weapon did.
In a world full of nukes/raining fire/fire imps/full automatics im suprised more people havent been killed instead of either sent to prison or hospital.
End of day good ole bluey will forever be a trainer in kings row fighting off the mighty paladins and there is nothing we can do about it . . . . . . . unless you face his alter ego that romulus dude so none of you have ever seen the connection between them before? They both make you wanna kill 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Technically, the Clockwork King didn't kill anyone; his evil, robot minion did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically Blue Steel didn't hurt the Clockwork King, his weapon did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah - he was standing over the Clockwork King when a violent sneezing fit came on, and while he put one hand over his mouth, he still had his shield in the other, and each time he sneezed, he kinda whacked the King with it totally not on purpose
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Technically, the Clockwork King didn't kill anyone; his evil, robot minion did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically Blue Steel didn't hurt the Clockwork King, his weapon did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah - he was standing over the Clockwork King when a violent sneezing fit came on, and while he put one hand over his mouth, he still had his shield in the other, and each time he sneezed, he kinda whacked the King with it totally not on purpose
[/ QUOTE ]
Aye, just as CWK's robots animated themselves to kill people
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah - he was standing over the Clockwork King when a violent sneezing fit came on, and while he put one hand over his mouth, he still had his shield in the other, and each time he sneezed, he kinda whacked the King with it totally not on purpose
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. I wish more people would understand this!
But, I see myself rapidly approaching the point where no matter how often I show the actual Blue Shield story - rather than this "HE GETS ANGRY AND SMASHES LOL" one folk judge him on - it's just going to be ignored. I'll bow out of this now, I think.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah - he was standing over the Clockwork King when a violent sneezing fit came on, and while he put one hand over his mouth, he still had his shield in the other, and each time he sneezed, he kinda whacked the King with it totally not on purpose
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. I wish more people would understand this!
But, I see myself rapidly approaching the point where no matter how often I show the actual Blue Shield story - rather than this "HE GETS ANGRY AND SMASHES LOL" one folk judge him on - it's just going to be ignored. I'll bow out of this now, I think.
[/ QUOTE ]
Awwww. 
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
Now where better to find such thought-provoking posts on the morality of being a hero than a forum dedicated to a game where you can burn enemies alive or riddle them with holes from your assault rifles. I won't even get started on the Broadsword or Katana scrappers, and im leaving the topic of suffocating your foes in a rock prison or laying explosive trip mines to blow up wary passers-by, well alone.
Let's gloss over the hordes of Longbow soldiers eager to nail the first villain they see against the wall with a spray of heavy machine gune fire, and the gigantic mecha robots which can spew out plasma beams and grenades. It's good to be a hero.
Characters:
The Heroic Mary Grace (50)
The Mystical Thunderspark (50)
The Candy-loving Little Jenny (50)
[ QUOTE ]
It's good to be a hero.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you're Blue Steel.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
[ QUOTE ]
The raid took place after an officer was already killed, and the Clockwork proven hostile. The raid was not unprovoked.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't say it was, try reading my posts before replying. However, BS's blood rage was the result of hearing about police deaths in a firefight and fire which could well have been predicted. It's probably actually bad storytelling on Cryptic's behalf. A seasoned police officer would not behave like that, though he might have gone hunting CK after the officer was killed on the street.
[ QUOTE ]
I have to wonder if you and the others condemning BS are the same guys in DND who label Drow as evil, after slaughtering an enclave of them and selling their stuff on the market. Double standards annoy the hell out of me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, I've never attacked a Drow village in my life, even IC. And in LRP I play in the 'evil' faction. Double standards annoy the hell out of me too, but the game you're playing has a largely Golden/Silver Age background to it. Blue Steel's story was one of the earlier attempts to add something a bit grittier into it. I don't think they did such a good job, but the whole point was to give BS something of an edge. Without it he's got to be the most boring trainer of any of them out there.
PS. An established tenant of Good in games which have fixed alignment systems is that it is not only good to kill Evil and steal their stuff, it is actually sacred to do so. It helps if you can find an orphan to bring back to a monastary to be 'raised correctly', but just killing Evil is a good thing. That isn't double standards, exactly, it's more to do with the conventions of a hard-line alignment system.
Thankfully, that doesn't exist in CoX.
PPS. Drow are evil, or rather they should be. What actually annoys me a lot is the fact that everyone who makes a Drow PC makes them good. Good Drow should be a couple of percent of the population, not 95%.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's good to be a hero.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you're Blue Steel.
[/ QUOTE ]
He made a mistake, that's all
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Technically, the Clockwork King didn't kill anyone; his evil, robot minion did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically Blue Steel didn't hurt the Clockwork King, his weapon did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but he used the weapon.
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Technically, the Clockwork King didn't kill anyone; his evil, robot minion did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically Blue Steel didn't hurt the Clockwork King, his weapon did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but he used the weapon.
[/ QUOTE ]
Did the weapon feel cheap and dirty afterwards? Did it need a lot of chocolate and red wine?
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
*throws away the wine, keeps the chocolate*
What?
I feel dirty and cheap most of the time...
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
[ QUOTE ]
I feel dirty and cheap most of the time...
[/ QUOTE ]
Like a pair of second-hand rabbitskin gloves?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
I don't really care that they have a uniform. I kind of care that they are there to handle a threat (Arachnos, not the Rikti) which has never materialised and they have never been stood down.
Was there ever a convincing in-game reason for planting Longbow all over the place? Or a OOC game reason for that matter?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well the Arachnos threat has materialised in the sense that the Arachnos-governed Rogue Isles are only 50 miles off Paragons coastline, Arachnos are already invading the city (Faultline, Sirens Call, etc) and are supporting villains that operate in it (mayhem/safeguard missions and other CoV arcs), have a nuclear silo on a nearby island (Warburg), and are threatening to expand their territory into a UN protectorate (Nerva Archipelago) and other nearby islands (Bloody Bay).
I always thought the reason Longbow are thematically present in Atlas/Galaxy, and not much in other "core" city zones, is because they're protecting Freedom Corp assets there, such as the Freedom Corps HQ and especially the RV portal. PPD and the heroes trained by and registered with Freedom Corps (i.e. players) are the only ones responsible for policing the streets.
Remember, Longbow is just a division of Freedom Corps, the non-profit corporation set up by the Freedom Phalanx to support and train Paragons heroes (as an alternative to Hero Corps, who wanted to charge the city for training/supporting its heroes) - theyve been active in the city for years and ALL player heroes are registered with them (i.e. your ID in-game) - those red & white suited Freedom Corps trainers (i.e. the TO vendors) have been in the hero zones since CoH launch afaik.
Sure, Ms Liberty set up the Longbow division mainly to counter Arachnos , mainly in the Rogue Isles, but its not hard to believe that Freedom Corps would also use their own highly-trained militia to defend their own assets - even Crey has their own security force for that - its really not that different to the private security contractors (i.e. mercenaries) in our world that corporations like Halliburton employ in Iraq
Sure, Longbow are potentially doing shady things in the Rogue Isles - I think the only place theyre legally allowed to be under UN/NATO mandate is in Nerva, as that is not an Arachnos-governed territory (hence why Nerva has a Longbow base but no Arachnos fort like most of the other Rogue Isles), and Longbow are basically there in a peacekeeping role - but Longbow are certainly agitators elsewhere (not least in Sharkhead and St Martial where they stirred up the Scrapyarder and Dockworker strikes). But I fail to see how Longbow can be accused of anything shady on Paragon City turf - well, except for maybe playing around with time travel in the RV portal under Atlas Park
As for Blue Steel, yeah he crossed the line, but I bet Manticore has done worse