Mission Creator

Ravenswing · 08-10-2008 01:56 PM

I'd imagine it's an entirely in-game rating system.

I'd imagine people will 'review' missions on the forums, but you don't have to read the forums.

OTOH, I think you're underestimating how sensitive people can be about getting very low scores, even without nasty comments to go with them. Indeed, that can be worse. You could give someone a low rating, but think they show promise, but if you have no way of saying that, then all they see is a low rating. Everyone hates them, they give up. Creative folks are like that. *goes off to be emo over a story no one's read yet*

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

BurningFist_EU · 08-10-2008 01:58 PM

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If everyone's work goes public, and you don't want to risk the ridicule of the masses, then that means you don't create missions. You have been locked out of a game mechanism by that game mechanism's competitive function. If you don't want to compete, don't want the ridicule, then disallowing you from creating something while avoiding the ridicule is not going to result in more good modules, it's going to result in less people creating anything.

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On the other hand, how many people won't create anything if there's no incentive beyond just creating something? I agree that some people will be put off by the ratings/rewards system but will they outnumber the people who will take part because that system? I don't reckon they will.

To be honest I can't see the ratings and rewards system as a competitive thing anyway.

PRAF68_EU · 08-10-2008 02:05 PM

Tons and tons of stuff is created for NWN without any reward, other than the potential enjoyment of other players, and maybe a good review on the Vault.

I really should do something about this signature.

BurningFist_EU · 08-10-2008 02:10 PM

Sure, but how many NWN module makers would have been put off from making them if there was some kind of other reward involved, like unlockable content for their modules?

Not very many I'd wager.

How many more would've created stuff for it if they could get those extra rewards?

I dunno tbh, but I bet it'd be more than those who would've been put off by them.

Ravenswing · 08-10-2008 02:12 PM

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On the other hand, how many people won't create anything if there's no incentive beyond just creating something?

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Not saying there should be no incentive, but making special bits of mission creating gear part of that incentive just makes it more likely that people with good ratings will always get good ratings.

One thing we said about the Arenas when they came out (be we, I mean the roleplayers) was that the random allocation of maps made the system next to useless for roleplay. The reason for random allocation was to stop the session originator from 'fixing' the game by picking a favourable map. It was actually one of the PvPers who pointed out that this only really mattered in rated matches. The same principle could be applied, with restrictions on content type for published missions and not private ones, but it still has a lot of disadvantages.

I'd rather see badges or vet-type rewards for getting good ratings over time.

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To be honest I can't see the ratings and rewards system as a competitive thing anyway.

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Really? You're even less competitive than I am then. MMOs have levels because the players like them. They like them (surveys say) because it's a method of comparing yourself to other players. CoX seems a little less prone to it than some games, but even here we have the "how fast can I get my character to level 50" crowd.

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

BurningFist_EU · 08-10-2008 02:23 PM

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On the other hand, how many people won't create anything if there's no incentive beyond just creating something?

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Not saying there should be no incentive, but making special bits of mission creating gear part of that incentive just makes it more likely that people with good ratings will always get good ratings.

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Yeah, I can see your point there. A rubbish mission on an uncommon map (for example) will still be a rubbish mission but could easily get extra points just for being on an uncommon map.

Hopefully the devs will be watching these debates for these kinds of pitfalls and adjust the way they handle the rewards/incentives accordingly.

FloatingFatMan · 08-10-2008 02:36 PM

At the end of the day, the maps themselves won't matter too much. They're merely a canvass upon which art is created.

What WILL matter, is the story lines people give their missions. These, above all else, will be what will make the PCC because I would be much astonished if they gave rewards at the same level as normal missions.

@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Assailant · 08-10-2008 02:56 PM

I think any ratings system will be a failure. Not because of the players who will abuse it, or use it as a griefing mechanics, but because the opinions of what makes a good mission will wary a lot from player to player. The mission a power game think is good, would most likely no be to the taste of a role player or badge hunter, and the same for the reverse.
So how useful can a rating by the general public really be?

I think a recommendation system would be far more useful. So that when you found a mission you liked, you could add it to you recommended missions. And then allow us to se a list of recommended mission by the players on our friend lists, and of our SG and coalitions. Heck, let us be able to se a list of recommendations of anyone we se on the street, so we can try the mission recommended by the member of our last good pug.
Then simply give the creator one point for every player that completes a mission he/she created. The more recommendations you got for a mission the more likely it would be someone saw one and tried it out, an thus gave you more points.
The same goal would be achieved, rewording good mission creators, but the ratings would relate to our individual playing styles.

And if some teenagers thought it was fun to create lousy mission, and recommend the lousy mission of their friends, then it would not affect the rest of us.

BrightEyes_EU · 08-10-2008 03:45 PM

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Sure, but how many NWN module makers would have been put off from making them if there was some kind of other reward involved, like unlockable content for their modules?

Not very many I'd wager.

How many more would've created stuff for it if they could get those extra rewards?

I dunno tbh, but I bet it'd be more than those who would've been put off by them.

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Rewards are fine, it's like giving money to a good author, it usually helps. However if the rewards are some of the tools he could be creative with in the first place it's a bit of a silly idea.

To use examples, you have a painter, he makes a good painting you pay em, sounds reasonable eh?

Now you have the same painter only you tell em to paint using only the orange, the black, the purple and the yellow from his pallet and if it actually comes out looking good next time he can use reds as well. Might actually work as an exercise for a professional painter, but don't help the masses trying to learn to create.

Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito

Spectral_Ent · 08-10-2008 04:55 PM

To my mind, the whole rating thing just seems... Unnecessary. Sure, it might filter a little bit of the dross, but griefing and the sheer amount of missions that'll be made will make it pretty pointless. And "Awards unlockables based on rating"? Eesh... No thanks. This is A: Easy to abuse
"Hey dudes! I just made a mish called (Whatever), go play it and rate it high so I can get unlockables!"
B: Leads to the escalation effect already mentioned (People who get rewards early (probably the above people...) will get unlocks and their missions will be better)
C: Is kinda pointless. Why not keep the "You can play with stuff you've seen" idea? Why do I have to go and make something that happy bob and the chestnut crew will enjoy just so I can put (Say) Manticore in my mission? Can't I just do (Say) Manticore's TF for that?

Mission creator and nigh everything in it is a great thing, so PLEASE don't spoil it with this fairly stupid idea...

BurningFist_EU · 08-10-2008 05:20 PM

Yeah, there are potential problems with the rewards thing but ratings will be extremely useful, both for the player who wants to find a good player-made mission and for the creator who wants more feedback than just his mates telling him it's great.

Ratings or recommendations, either's good IMO.

lionsbane_EU · 08-10-2008 08:43 PM

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Me? Ide publish name AFTER I got a good rating.

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In that case, you should probably use a false name.

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Ahh Stas, to know me is to love me.

Sides Ide use my global not my forum name and I get a very different reception on defiant than I do on these boards.