Pure tanking? Granite armor wins. Psionic? Stone wins. SL? Outside Granite, Inv wins bigtime. Defence? Even battle. Resist? Stone. Inv get a nice acc boost with a auto-hit taunt aura, stone gets a nearly unkillable status. Inv can reach perma-DP, Stone needs huge +rech to reach it. They both reach about the same mag-prot (rooted+granite, invinc+unstoppable). Stone wins with perception (psi-def armor gives perc) but can be countered iirc with FA (also give perc?).
Stone Granite for many looks ugly, Inv looks very 'heroic' shiny. Unstoppable is a wonderful yet dangerous power, Granite is a -rech/-dmg/-slow downside.
Personal? Perma-Granite any time.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
I don't care which Tank I play really just as long I keep in mind which one I am on.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
A bad invul tanker tends to die. A bad stone tanker tends to survive while the team dies. I know which I'd rather team with, cause one you can help.
I much prefer invuls for most situations and with invince putting them at the def cap for most things (with tough and weave) you can often find them just as survivable, if played well.
My vote goes invul (my highest tanker is a WP at 33 and the rest of mine are much lower. I'm going on what I find easier to team with)
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
I vote for willpower!
What is better would depend on what criteria you set. Neither Stone nor Invulnerability is better than the other in all respects. Depending on the level range you will also get different answers.
A stone Tank in Granite will almost always be more durable. There are some rare exceptions where an Inv can be more survivable, but they are highly specific and usually temporary as the Inv has to rely on Unstoppable. A specific example would be when fighting Ghost Widow (in the Statesman TF), as she can hold either easily. Granite will then drop for the Stone tank, while Unstoppable does not for the Inv.
On the whole, Stone in Granite is however the clear winner.
As for damage dealing and mobility, Stone in Granite is affected by considerable debuffs which makes it extremely difficult to compete with an Invulnerable tank assuming the same secondary. Outside of Granite, Stone fares better. It does however lose the protection Granite affords it, although it can have native psionic protection.
If you introduce IOs into the discussion, a comparison will become difficult as the Stone can start working towards getting rid of the Granite debuffs while the Inv can add on some more defense, more recharge to allow Dull Pain to be up continuously or tack on more regeneration.
As a final disclaimer, I have not played a Stone tank to any significant level. I have about 2.5 years experience with the Invulnerability set.
[ QUOTE ]
A bad invul tanker tends to die. A bad stone tanker tends to survive while the team dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get this. Such simple black and white contrasting. Such flippant pigeon holing. I do not understand.
In both sentences the team aren't accounted for as though they can do no wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A bad invul tanker tends to die. A bad stone tanker tends to survive while the team dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get this. Such simple black and white contrasting. Such flippant pigeon holing. I do not understand.
In both sentences the team aren't accounted for as though they can do no wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats with the assumption the team play in the same manner. With a stone tank you dont really have to watch their health, you have to watch to make sure they have the agro. With an inv you have to be more health concious, on average, but their aura, the speed at which their powers recharge (meaning gauntlet and taunt) and their combat movement means its much easier for them to hold the agro.
It is very rare to see a Granite die. Its not uncommon to see a dead team except the Granite. A good Granite holds agro seamlessly but there seems to be a bigger divide between good and bad for stone tanks in Granite than for any other tank when it comes to agro holding. I'm always more nervous if I see a tank in Granite and I'm playing a squishy than with any other tank. I will slowly test the agro control rather than assume they will do a good job.
Side note, Syn's an excellent stone tank and I feel comfortable letting rip with my blaster when teamed with him. But he's not the average player
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A bad invul tanker tends to die. A bad stone tanker tends to survive while the team dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get this. Such simple black and white contrasting. Such flippant pigeon holing. I do not understand.
In both sentences the team aren't accounted for as though they can do no wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
With Invuln tanks you can gain survivability from consolidating aggro in the aura. A good Invuln would then do his job well and have good survivability (38% def is great). A team may prevent an Invuln from consolidating aggro in the aura but not in actuality in which aggro control exists without the survivability. None of this matters to a Stonetank. Their survivability isn't so based on what the team does. The teams survivability is more based on what the Stonetank does. Invulns can have far less of a problem of getting aggro than a Stonetank would in keeping it. No matter what Tank is in the team it is important to not always have the same expectations and adapt.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I prefer a mobile tanker any day to play with - one that can jump around to consolidate aggro, pick up loose strays and juggle spawns if required. I find a granite armored tanker to be a little on the too slow side which thats doesn't allows this as easily, which doesn't suit my playstyle, which is probably why my stone tanker sits on lvl 42 and has done so for months..
[ QUOTE ]
Side note, Syn's an excellent stone tank and I feel comfortable letting rip with my blaster when teamed with him. But he's not the average player
[/ QUOTE ]
Syn as in Sin? 
Then im flatttered 
Its nice to know your strength, but its more important to know your weakness. Know your enemy, face your weakness.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
I have a inv tanker and comparing granite to unstopable is pointless i cant remember the last time i had to use unstoppable, but most (but not in my opinion the best) stone tanks spend all there time in granite form.
A stone tank in a semi decent team wont need to be in granite form all the time, personally the sooner it becomes a clicky the better.
Granite will never be a clicky
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Side note, Syn's an excellent stone tank and I feel comfortable letting rip with my blaster when teamed with him. But he's not the average player
[/ QUOTE ]
Syn as in Sin? Then im flatttered
Its nice to know your strength, but its more important to know your weakness. Know your enemy, face your weakness.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, as in Sin (must learn to spell).
If I was choosing a weakness to overcome in this game it would be survivability over movement. I think its much harder to play a good Stone tank than it is to play say a good Ice Tank. With its resistance to slows and its amazing agro capabilities all you have to worry about with ice is surviving. Inv in my opinion is a very well balanced set which doesn't throw up any tough challanges in any aspect, same with Willpower. Its the other sets where you have to overcome the weakness inherant in their sets
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
With most of the support effects in the game alongside a typical build I see unstoppable being far less needed to an Invuln than Granite is needed or Hibernate is needed to Stone or Ice respectively. However there are times when Granite isn't at all necessary but still gets used. A decent team are just people with caution and consideration of each others builds. In my mind that seriously just includes people who "know" almost every build ruling out most of the populace and so one is happy with people doing their best with what concept they have got whilst being progressive in finding out how well others can cope.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Inv is obviously better: you get to play the hero and still keep your looks. None of that granite stuff thank you very much.
More seriously though, I tend to feel that whilst some of the best tanks I've teamed with are stone tanks, I seem to see a more of them who think they're unbeatable and have less consideration for the rest of the team. Whether one is inherently better than the other I'd guess it's horses for courses around the margins but generally it more about the player. I'm not into studying the numbers though so my perceptions are based on playing Inv and teaming with Stone, so you could ask "what the hell do I know"? 
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
I vote for willpower!
[/ QUOTE ]
Aye!
Invul and Stone are my least favourite tanker sets by far, but if I had to decide which one to team with when nothing better is available I would probably choose Invul, because it comes without inherent debuffs and tanker survivability should not be a big problem in any team that is decent enough for me to be a part of it. And if I had to play one of those (because someone held a gun to my head or something like that) I would also choose Invul, because the guano and monkey poo look of Stone is probably one of the worst things you can do to your costume.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
[ QUOTE ]
Invul and Stone are my least favourite tanker sets by far
[/ QUOTE ]Agreed, and I have one of each at lvls 27-28. I'd much rather play my fire tank than these two... I personally prefer playing my Invul, rather than my stone...as so much more interesting. Get bored with my stone very easily (but then that may be because I took stone melee too....), hence why still only lvl 27 after over 2 years....!
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
i have but one tank and that is my 50 invul. it rocks for me and i have been constantly tweaking at it and i think i found a winner in the current mix up of things. this is as it will be as of the next freespec i gain. and yes those sets have already been slotted.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php
Tank Stormhammer: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability
(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(9) Endurance Reduction IO
(11) Resist Damage IO
(11) Resist Damage IO
(48) Resist Damage IO
Level 1: Jab
(A) Accuracy IO
(5) Damage Increase IO
(5) Damage Increase IO
(17) Damage Increase IO
Level 2: Punch
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(15) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(31) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(48) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 4: Dull Pain
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(13) Recharge Reduction IO
(13) Recharge Reduction IO
(37) Healing IO
(37) Healing IO
(37) Healing IO
Level 6: Air Superiority
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(7) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(7) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(15) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(31) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(48) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 8: Unyielding
(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(9) Endurance Reduction IO
(21) Resist Damage IO
(27) Resist Damage IO
(31) Resist Damage IO
Level 10: Taunt
(A) Accuracy IO
Level 12: Swift
(A) Run Speed IO
Level 14: Fly
(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(17) Flight Speed IO
(27) Flight Speed IO
Level 16: Health
(A) Healing IO
(36) Healing IO
(36) Healing IO
Level 18: Invincibility
(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(19) Endurance Reduction IO
(19) Defense Buff IO
(21) Defense Buff IO
(36) Defense Buff IO
Level 20: Stamina
(A) Endurance Modification IO
(34) Endurance Modification IO
(34) Endurance Modification IO
Level 22: Knockout Blow
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(23) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(23) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(25) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(25) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(34) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 24: Resist Energies
(A) Resist Damage IO
(42) Resist Damage IO
(46) Resist Damage IO
Level 26: Resist Elements
(A) Resist Damage IO
(42) Resist Damage IO
(46) Resist Damage IO
Level 28: Rage
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(29) Recharge Reduction IO
(29) To Hit Buff IO
(33) To Hit Buff IO
Level 30: Handclap
(A) Accuracy IO
(40) Disorient Duration IO
Level 32: Unstoppable
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(33) Recharge Reduction IO
(33) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 35: Resist Physical Damage
(A) Resist Damage IO
(42) Resist Damage IO
(46) Resist Damage IO
Level 38: Foot Stomp
(A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
(39) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
(39) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
(39) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
(40) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(40) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
Level 41: Haymaker
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(43) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(43) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(43) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(45) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(45) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 44: Tough Hide
(A) Defense Buff IO
(45) Defense Buff IO
(50) Defense Buff IO
(50) Defense Buff IO
Level 47: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 49: Recall Friend
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
------------
Level 1: Brawl
(A) Damage Increase IO
Level 1: Sprint
(A) Run Speed IO
Level 2: Rest
(A) Healing IO
Level 1: Gauntlet
| Copy & Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
You PvP with that? (cos thats all acc in taunt is good for)
Some of the slots are excessive for small paltry bonuses I can only assume that they are there waiting to change to some special IO.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Hybrid pve/p build
These posts come up far too often on the forums... "Which is better out of..." "Which is the best...."
Best for what? Tanking? Damage? PvP? PvE? TFs? Farming? Fun Factor?
For taking damage, Stone- or more specifically Granite. For dealing damage, Invulnerability, although a Stone Tank can deal just as much while not in Granite- in fact, techically a bit more as it has Mudpots.
Generally, for tough TFs like MoSTF, Granite will do much better and survive more, focusing on purely the Tanking aspect, where as in casual missions maybe only an Invuln will be required, taking the damage while dishing it out.
Invuln lacks high resistance to most damage types except S/L, wheras Granite has relatively good protection against everything, especially S/L while in Granite.
It is easier to get Perma Dull Pain as Invuln, as you don't have so much of the -recharge from Granite. However, it is questionable whether Perma Earth's Embrace is even needed.
Invuln maybe classed better for PvP, especially solo... The Defence coupled with the -Tohit from Invincibility can be very useful. However, Granite can be good for a large-scale PvP and Arena, using Taunt to simply control the attention of enemies.
If you want to sit there, taunt, and laugh away, Granite is usually the best choice. If you want to get up and smash things to good effect, while still taking huge amounts of damage, go with Invuln.
Mobility and Aggro-Control, INV.
Pure Survivability, Stone.
About the only differences between a solidly-built endgame Stone and a solidly-built endgame INV are:
(i) The INV's taunt and AoEs will be recharged much more often (for aggro control) and the INV has far, far better unsuppressed movement which allows them to get from spawn to spawn quickly (usually for more aggro control). The INV will also be able to deal more damage whilst tanking than a Stoner using Granite Armor.
(ii) The Stone will survive longer when facing Psionic, Energy, Fire, Negative, Cold or Toxic Damage. Note that Cold and Toxic are the least common; with Hydra, CoT and Arachnos essentially being the sole offenders. Note also that INV can hit the 45% defense "soft cap" to all except Psionic/Toxic and Stone to all except Toxic.
Secondarys can play a big role in how effectively you can grab aggro and/or mitigate damage several powers from the tanker secondarys have secondary effects such as knock-up, knock-down, stuns, holds or even fear effects such as burn
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
An average Stoney will be more survivable than an average Invuln, but an average Invuln will be much better at keeping agro than an average Stoney. I pride myself on keeping agro on my Stoney which is why I play him, I wouldn't bother if I couldn't keep all the agro. I think a skilled Stoney is much more worth having in a team than a skilled Invuln, but that's because most of an Invuln's ability comes from his build, but most of a Stoney's ability comes from his personal skill in holding agro.
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
i'm constantly arguing with a friend about which tanker is better out of invun/stone. i Wont tell you which one i would pick but i'll like to know from you guys. In your own opinions, which is better? and the reason why
It's now Issue 21 and I am back!
My new Global is @Zyhar
Currently enjoying the Exalted Server!