Also depends on the 'avarage' tactics of engaging battle. A PuG that nicely wait till tanker moved in, or pulled a full group a granite has no lesser 'agro problems' then inv. (no, granite with 3slots swift isnt really that slow)
A granite can choose agro no mather where mobs are, an Inv has to agro mobs and at the same time check his status. Only melee range provide defence, so he cant just run all over the place. SL is never a problem for both, once elemental/nrg kicks in a inv has to start paying attention during agro-managing, where a Granite (though slower) can continue fully focus on agro stuff.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
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and what is 'average' in an MMO with diverse playstyles, power selection and slotting you either have a team that gels together and has a great time or you have one were everyone does their own thing and you end up with a sore head you can't measure people with the yard stick of common sense because some people have none 
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
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Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
If you play different tankers your level of ability changes with each one and changes further more by the enemy you face and further more by the players in the teams your in.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I couldn't agree more
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
Maybe that's because it's true.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Yes, look at my avatar. What a tank.
@Sweet Chilli
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An average Stoney will be more survivable than an average Invuln, but an average Invuln will be much better at keeping agro than an average Stoney. I pride myself on keeping agro on my Stoney which is why I play him, I wouldn't bother if I couldn't keep all the agro. I think a skilled Stoney is much more worth having in a team than a skilled Invuln, but that's because most of an Invuln's ability comes from his build, but most of a Stoney's ability comes from his personal skill in holding agro.
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Stop blowing wind in your own sail Rooks!
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An average Stoney will be more survivable than an average Invuln, but an average Invuln will be much better at keeping agro than an average Stoney. I pride myself on keeping agro on my Stoney which is why I play him, I wouldn't bother if I couldn't keep all the agro. I think a skilled Stoney is much more worth having in a team than a skilled Invuln, but that's because most of an Invuln's ability comes from his build, but most of a Stoney's ability comes from his personal skill in holding agro.
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Stop blowing wind in your own sail Rooks!
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it's true holmes.
O btw, granite sux. I tanked 2 AVs unbuffed without it. and 2 gms at the same time. How's that for "only using it when you need to"?
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
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An average Stoney will be more survivable than an average Invuln, but an average Invuln will be much better at keeping agro than an average Stoney. I pride myself on keeping agro on my Stoney which is why I play him, I wouldn't bother if I couldn't keep all the agro. I think a skilled Stoney is much more worth having in a team than a skilled Invuln, but that's because most of an Invuln's ability comes from his build, but most of a Stoney's ability comes from his personal skill in holding agro.
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Stop blowing wind in your own sail Rooks!
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Someone has to. Its the type of wind thats worrying me
Yes even SR scrappers unaided can do the same against certain ones.
Everyone has to gain their own experiences and build upon them. The game wouldn't be worth playing with nothing to learn or with the thinking "its all been done" etc...or is it just me that thinks that?
Add to it all the team usually has something to offer or not offer and it maybe the limited time and luck on ones side that determines the outcome.
I enjoyed playing this morning with a new player, with them making their own mistakes and my squishy dying over and over as a result. I felt that I could decide that the Exalted debt badge doesn't necessarily have to mean your Exalted because you can not die or rubbish because you have died so much but because of a virtue and in this case, I felt the virtue could be patience.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I think its much harder to play a good Stone tank than it is to play say a good Ice Tank. With its resistance to slows and its amazing agro capabilities all you have to worry about with ice is surviving.
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That's something I'm learning with my new tank. Having played a ice/fire and now playing a WP/SS I find that I'm having a lot more trouble with agro keeping.
With my ice/fire I had CE and constant AoE 'splosions, I got so used to it that I didn't think it was any sort of unusual that mobs stayed glued to me (I did take taunt for those outside my aura range).
With my WP (granted that I don't have Footstomp yet) I find that I lose agro pretty easy and some spawns are so huge that they test my limits. Taunt spam is a given, especially as after a few deaths I managed to remember (correctly I hope) that an aura has an agro cap of 10, taunt of 5 and punchvoke will add 2 more to reach the limit. I was relying only on my aura, which coupled with the AoEs of my previous tanker had been quite enough but on my WP, especially with WP's tiny aura radius, simply doesn't cut it.
heres a little anecdote about some experience i made on a Eden trial. In the team there was two tanks, my invuln and a Stone tank.
It could have been due to some in the group knowing the Stoner but I got the feeling like they had greater expectations of his tank than my Inv. Any Tanker task seemed to rest on the Stone by default, even if it was something I could do better.
For instance, like pulling the Quarries which are big bad monsters down the holes instead of fighting them.
I have Flight, and 4 slotted taunt, ive got great resists against S/L which is what the Monsters main damage type..
and yet they ask the mighty GRANITE to do it...
Because obviously Stone is better than Inv...
I waited a minute or two before flying in and taunting the two quarries down the hole...
Granted I had to use Unstoppable when we got ZERGed after beating the crystal titan, but I went toe to toe with the granite for the entire onslaught.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
I will contribute another anecdote about a recent experience in Recluses Victory. I duelled a Thugs/Poison Mastermind, who almost immediately detoggled me using Noxious Gas with its 1000 mag, 4 second hold. Needless to say my S/L resistances went from excellent to very poor (about 11%), since only the passive RPD remained. After the hold wore off, there was no other option than using Dull Pain to get health back and firing off Unstoppable. While he still held me with the next application of Noxious Gas, it did not matter. With Unstoppable running on top of the passives, my resistances remained capped at 90% despite the resistance debuff even when held.
After the duel was over he commented that while he usually took Granite tanks apart almost immediately due to the toggle drops, an Invulnerable tank was more difficult since Unstoppable could not be negated.
As an ending note, I will say that I have fought that mastermind several times in duels and consider him a skilled opponent. The particular duel described above I managed to win, though overall we are more or less equal in terms of wins/losses.
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
I will contribute another anecdote about a recent experience in Recluses Victory. I duelled a Thugs/Poison Mastermind, who almost immediately detoggled me using Noxious Gas with its 1000 mag, 4 second hold. Needless to say my S/L resistances went from excellent to very poor (about 11%), since only the passive RPD remained. After the hold wore off, there was no other option than using Dull Pain to get health back and firing off Unstoppable. While he still held me with the next application of Noxious Gas, it did not matter. With Unstoppable running on top of the passives, my resistances remained capped at 90% despite the resistance debuff even when held.
After the duel was over he commented that while he usually took Granite tanks apart almost immediately due to the toggle drops, an Invulnerable tank was more difficult since Unstoppable could not be negated.
As an ending note, I will say that I have fought that mastermind several times in duels and consider him a skilled opponent. The particular duel described above I managed to win, though overall we are more or less equal in terms of wins/losses.
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Mmmmh, maybe it works in a zone, but in a arena, the duel lasts 10 mn, and when unstoppable is gone, you're naked and almost dead ^^
if any 1 vs 1 goes down to the wire i just wait for the 2:50 on the timer and blast of unstoppable
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Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
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True, though it does depend on how the Arena duel is set up. For the standard 10 minutes you do have to plan for the drop if you use Unstoppable before the 7 minute mark.
My intent with the anecdote was however to highlight a situation in which Unstoppable was preferable to Granite, which I believe would still be the case in a standard Arena duel against a Poison mastermind.
I will elaborate a bit on my experiences with the Unstoppable crash, which hopefully connects somewhat to the topic of Stone versus Invulnerability as the crash is often used as an argument against the Invulnerability set. It is not my intention to "prove" the superiority of either set as what is superior depends on what criteria you use to judge the sets by. It will just be empirically collected information that might be of use to others to decide for themselves. I lack experience with Granite either way, so I do not feel I can make a qualified judgement.
In any event, handling the Unstoppable crash in a duel is possible - retreat is almost always an option in an Arena duel due to the teleportation temporary power and possibility to stock up on Break Frees. Unless your opponent is on his toes, or have applied plenty of DoT effects, you can usually buy yourself enough time to heal up and retoggle. Timing the crash to occur after a possible duel time limit expires is an option.
In zone PvP, stocking up on Ethereal Shifts can make the crash completely safe. Since Ethereal Shift is a click power it will not drop when you run out of endurance, unlike the Concealment pool Phase Shift. The drawback is that it runs out after five uses. This also works in PvE, though here you may run the risk of losing aggro control. Ethereal Shift can not be turned off - once you are intangible, you are for the entire power duration. Depending on team capacity and skill, this may still be acceptable. Warning beforehand is advisable though.
A less safe alternative to the Ethereal Shift power would be to pop Eye of the Magus or several purple inspirations as the Unstoppable crash approaches. Unless you are heavily debuffed this is likely to see you through, especially if you have Dull Pain recharged. You will retain aggro control, though your opponents might get enough lucky hits in to drop you.
Lastly, one of the safest ways to handle the crash is to kill everything hostile to you before it comes. This is not an option in time-based Arena duels however, due to your opponent respawning. Depending on your opponent, it might also be somewhat tricky to pull off.
In all, my personal experience is that the crash is manageable though many tactics for managing it relies on preparing beforehand.
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I vote for willpower!
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Seconded here...
Carlsberg don't do Farming,
But if they did..........
Boils down to whether you want to be the "Unstoppable Force" (Inv) or the "Immovable Object" (Stone)
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
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