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KO Blow WITHOUT rage is over 50% more powerful than the hardest hitting mace attack
Footstomp WITHOUT rage is 20% more powerful than the equivalent AOE from mace
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Look at the recharge time and endurance cost.
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recharge time and endurance cost can be effected by IOs and other powers, base damage and cast times can't.
Foostomp recharge time: 20s
Whirling Mace recharge time: 14s (-25%)
KO blow: 25s!
Shatter: 12s (more than -50%)
Death_badger if Footstomp recharge time and endurance cost can be affected by IOs whirling mace too. It is proportional. You're talking as if war mace tankers didn't use IOs to enhance their powers...
And if you think KO blow is so overpowered, for the same amount of damage you have:
total focus: 20s
seismic smash: 20s
energy transfert (even more powerfull): 20s
SS is slower than any other melee set, without rage it is the badest of the lethal/smash ones.
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Death_badger if Footstomp recharge time and endurance cost can be affected by IOs whirling mace too. It is proportional. You're talking as if war mace tankers didn't use IOs to enhance their powers...
[/ QUOTE ]Once theres enough +rech and +recov in play, recharge and (especially) end cost no longer matter. Only damage per animation time does.
Reducing 12s by 50% will always be better than reducing 25s bye 50%. Except if you think that 12,5s is shorter than 6s...
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Reducing 12s by 50% will always be better than reducing 25s bye 50%. Except if you think that 12,5s is shorter than 6s...
[/ QUOTE ]Sure. However, once we reduce by 80% and consider that there are other attacks in the chain as well, a few-second difference in the base values is no longer significant.
And now if you want to talk about casting time: seismic smash 1,5s, energy transfert 1s. Honesty...
SS is not the overpowered set you're trying to tell everyone here.
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And now if you want to talk about casting time: seismic smash 1,5s, energy transfert 1s. Honesty...
SS is not the overpowered set you're trying to tell everyone here.
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I'm not telling everyone its overpowered, simply that it isn't underpowered. If you want underpowered try making a war mace tank.
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SS is not the overpowered set you're trying to tell everyone here.
[/ QUOTE ]I said it was overpowered where?
All I was saying/implying was that your understanding of game mechanics was lacking.
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All I was saying/implying was that your understanding of game mechanics was lacking.
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That's your opinion
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All I was saying/implying was that your understanding of game mechanics was lacking.
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That's your opinion
[/ QUOTE ]Indeed. That's what it says in my sig.
Maelwys gave you all the figures needed, I added some. Now if you persist in that direction I could say that you perhaps lack of understanding of game mechanics and, fisrt of all, you clearly lacks of intellectual honesty.
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All I was saying/implying was that your understanding of game mechanics was lacking.
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That's your opinion
[/ QUOTE ]Indeed. That's what it says in my sig.
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Mace got a buff recently to cast times, I'd place it above Axe but below SS now for ST damage output. It's one of the better AoE sets IIRC (it has a fair amount of cones) but it's a good bit more resisted than Fire.
I know Hammer doesn't have that high an opinion of it as a powerset though. Can't say I blame him either... 
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Maelwys gave you all the figures needed, I added some. Now if you persist in that direction I could say that you perhaps lack of understanding of game mechanics and, fisrt of all, you clearly lacks of intellectual honesty.
[/ QUOTE ]1) All numbers necessary were already given by Mael, you only added mace numbers, which are hardly relevant since mace is an underperforming set.
2) If, by my drection you mean my insistance that DPA is the most important value, I'd suggest you check Mael's number post again, since he actually says the same thing there.
3) I'm quite honest about the fact that I'm intelligent...or did you mean something else?
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All I was saying/implying was that your understanding of game mechanics was lacking.
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That's your opinion
[/ QUOTE ]Indeed. That's what it says in my sig.
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[/ QUOTE ]I aim to please.
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All numbers necessary were already given by Mael, you only added mace numbers, which are hardly relevant since mace is an underperforming set.
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Hammerfall mentioned mace, I answered him. You may think that mace is an underperforming set but I dont' think that nerfing rage has something to do with it.
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3) I'm quite honest about the fact that I'm intelligent...or did you mean something else?
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or modest.
looks like the message got through. This from Castle on the US boards :-
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You'll be happy to know that the Defense Debuff will be going back in and the Recovery Debuff reverted out in an upcoming patch. Also, the Temp power thing is going the way of the Dodo.
I'll take a look at all this again in I12 to try and balance out the Def/Resist inequality.
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For now at least..we are safe 
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All numbers necessary were already given by Mael, you only added mace numbers, which are hardly relevant since mace is an underperforming set.
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Hammerfall mentioned mace, I answered him. You may think that mace is an underperforming set but I dont' think that nerfing rage has something to do with it.
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3) I'm quite honest about the fact that I'm intelligent...or did you mean something else?
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or modest.
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Actually I mentioned mace, way back in response to a post stating that rage wasn't an actual buff but simply bringing SS into line with other sets therefore it didn't actually need any negative effect. I was proving that Superstrength is more than balanced. I wasn't suggesting in any way that super strength required a nerf. Want empyrical evidence?
I loaded up my L50 SS tank (plain IOs only, no sets) and found a L50 Behemoth overlord. I killed it in 4 shots, Haymaker doing 147 damage and KO Blow doing 319.
I loaded up my WM tank (Io setted out) found the same mob and took 7 attacks to kill it, with Shatter doing 196 damage and Jawbreaker 170.
War mace is much weaker than SS, even without activating rage, despite your claim that SS is the 'badest' of the S/L sets (and before you criticise anyones intellect make sure you are capable yourself. Something is not the baddest (even if it was spelt correctly) its the worst)
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Tankers
* Increased radius of Ice Melee Frost from 7 to 10.
* Increased radius of War Mace Crowd Control from 5 to 8.
* Decreased radius of War Mace Shatter from 10 to 8, but increased its arc of attack from 20 degrees to 45 degrees.
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Mace and Ice got buffed! To some its minor but to me its not.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I loaded up my L50 SS tank (plain IOs only, no sets) and found a L50 Behemoth overlord. I killed it in 4 shots, Haymaker doing 147 damage and KO Blow doing 319.
I loaded up my WM tank (Io setted out) found the same mob and took 7 attacks to kill it, with Shatter doing 196 damage and Jawbreaker 170.
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WM is supposed to be a better AoE set than SS whilst SS is a better ST set.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Death_badger if Footstomp recharge time and endurance cost can be affected by IOs whirling mace too. It is proportional. You're talking as if war mace tankers didn't use IOs to enhance their powers...
[/ QUOTE ]Once theres enough +rech and +recov in play, recharge and (especially) end cost no longer matter. Only damage per animation time does.
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They didn't balance with buffs in mind. People solo and end up in teams where the buffs aren't always available. I know how good a buffed fire/fire blaster is compared to a buffed AR/dev. Does my AR/Dev mind? I would do depending on my concept and playstyle but thats not going to be the same as everyone elses. Things have to be different for diversity.
They balanced everything around raw figures and recharge is added to cast time so over a long period of time things can differ. The high burst may not be there but the damage over time could be.
I don't think PvP was considered in the beginning or there'd possibly be a certain amount of damage per endurance per second of action time and then recharge added in order to balance the damage over a lengthier time of an attack using ratings of minor, medium, high and extreme to alter the dam per action time.
Damage is less when a secondary effect is added which means -fight duration within a fight duration but when its not useful as it sometimes isn't its pointless plus fight duration. These again may have a chance of but not everyone is in a team getting buffed and so some may rely on those sec effects for something plus aesthetics matter. Comparing jab versus gash directly like some people do isn't properly comparing the whole set.
At least create an attack chain, compare dam and sec effect over time and take into account area over time omg I could go on forever but realize this game is predominantly pve and getting things right for everyones idea of pvp ain't gonna happen let alone happen overnight but I think changes to Mace for say PVP should come as part of a move for a change for almost all sets.
They tweaked Maces action times and with it I would of thought it possible to get one more attack in the build up duration. At least thats what I worked out and moved on from. A lot of Brutes can't wait for it now for its aesthetism.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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SS is slower than any other melee set, without rage it is the badest of the lethal/smash ones.
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ha
ha
ha
ps.
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And now if you want to talk about casting time: seismic smash 1,5s, energy transfert 1s. Honesty...
SS is not the overpowered set you're trying to tell everyone here.
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Shatter 2,8 seconds. Casting times cannot be affected by any buff or enhancement, im sure you know. Shatter also doesnt mez, unlike the two attacks described above. Its secondary effect, while nice-looking, is actually bad for tanking.
on-topic: I did post my opinion earlier that the end-recovery crash for rage would have been appallingly bad idea, but if thats being rolled back I see little further problems for SS.
Shatter is a high damage cone attack (its arc has been increased), crowd control is a cone, whirling mace is an aoe. Sure war mace is the badest set for pve purpose...
Hit 2-3 mobs with shatter and you overdamage KO blow.
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Shatter is a high damage cone attack (its arc has been increased), crowd control is a cone, whirling mace is an aoe. Sure war mace is the badest set for pve purpose...
Hit 2-3 mobs with shatter and you overdamage KO blow.
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But all of them are highly resisted and shatter is reknowned for its long activation time. True, War Mace may not be the worst/"badest" atm, but its still subpar (all in my opinion of course)
@Jaw Dropper - Toons of all levels so drop me a line!
Imaginary Inc.
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Didn't shatter get its activation time reduced?
I really should do something about this signature.
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KO Blow WITHOUT rage is over 50% more powerful than the hardest hitting mace attack
Footstomp WITHOUT rage is 20% more powerful than the equivalent AOE from mace
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Look at the recharge time and endurance cost.
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and?
Look at the casting time.