The League of Righteous Destroyers OOC

I don't know what went wrong here, but I'm sorry it turned into an argument. Here are my two inf on the matter:
The best thing I can mention about LORD is the fact that they're real, credible super villains. These Super Villains have a REAL grand scheme, to rule the world. I've praised this other where for the countless plot opportunities that result in, so I won't repeat myself here. However, to rule the world, naturally you would have to seize nations.

First point on this matter: All of this makes no sense and no difference if we all ignore it. No, NCsoft will not be making it game cannon or change the game world (why should they? You can't go there anyway) but neither did they make "Riot in the Row" or "Requiem War" game cannon and that didn't stop a lot of role players accepting these as genuine happenings. So, don't like it? Ignore it. The game canon is on your side, but you might wanna consider if you're wasting an otherwise great opportunity for some nice RP.

Secondly, if we do accept it for a fact even though it won't become cannon, then we face the next problem. Some people are uncomfortable with taking action against a real country. While such should be respected, I'd still like to point out why I don't really understand this.
Paragon City is in the USA. USA is a real country. Yet no one has the slightest problem killing, maiming or threatening to exterminate the civvies herein. Why then the hassle about doing so in a real (or fictional) country IN THE GAME?

Besides, another thing mentioned already, the game world is likely a completely different one from the real world. Take a look at the time line! Or think about the simply fact that Meta Humans exist: that is easily enough to completely change the world! Game world does not equal Real world.
It's. just. a game! I, for one, don't understand why IC and OOC can get so mixed up? I wouldn't have second thought about nuking anywhere in the world IN THE GAME because it's not real! I find it slightly frightening that people react so strongly over things in a game.

And then there is the 'bleed'. People who are capable of really going in character often feel the 'bleed'. I feel that this may be the only reasonable argument I've heard so far. It's a game. If doing something specific in the game can make you feel uncomfortable, then don't. It's not worth it. So if that's your argument then I'll accept it completely.

That said, that is STRICTLY the way I feel and I know we're not all the same. I can only try to see things from the only perspective I really know: mine.

I know I've probably insulted someone and for that I apologize. I'll take it back if given a sufficient reason.I'm pretty tired right now, but I just didn't like how this thread turned out.

Lastly, can the conversation at least be kept at a proper level? Please, no matter how annoyed you get, do what you can to keep it out of your posts to keep a proper tone.

Were actually on a very easy thing here... Just needs working out.

In order to plan a take over or any real evil anywhere on the globe ingame, we need to establish something the game timeline isnt mentioning... How is the rest of the world aftr the first Rikti war... and how does it fare now?

As Paragon City is the biggest city left standing we can easily assume that the Rikti attacked much like the aliens from Independence Day.. all major cities at once. Meaning NY, Washington, Paris, Bejing, Tokyo, Cairo, Berlin, Sidney are all in ruins... building up like Paragon City after the war.

The smaller already corrupted countries will be the least hi by the Rikti as those countries arent a real threat to an invasion like that. Maybe they hit Baghdad, and Tel Aviv... but certainly Sierra Leone or Dominican Republic holds no interesse.

Those already corrupt countries would thrive under a chaos like that. Half of the tirans in Africa would take over and being themselves taken over in a period of 10 years.

So a made up country build on the same kind of political system would also be very fragile for a hostile take over if done by beings with powers and influence such as the LORD. Also.. a hostile takeover from beings like that will not follow any nomal rules. And if done right will not even be noticed by the people living in that country. They are already used to another dictator every month or so (as in real life people in for instance african countries are).

A different dictator will not change the price of a chicken... or a life of a farmer...

It would, for the story, be not any difference if we would make up a new country or use one of the smaller ones allready in chaos. Its roleplay and were not doing it for real. But the use of real known locations make much better stories.

If its in front of the Mexican coast (Rogue Isles) or in Rhode Island, USA (Paragon City), or in Paris, Bagdad or Timbuktu... it's a fictional story...

And by-the-way.. I am one of those that uses a real historic character as a city of villains toon for roleplay.. and I noticed that having that has helped me in my roleplay. I have dates, places, family ... everything handed to me. Just needed to build on what I had using history.

If you read Liz her full bio you see she is interweaved into history after that.. she was a friend of Marie Antonette in Versailles, responsable for Jack the Ripper in Londen, and for the vampiric encounters in Rhode Island... letting her end up in Paragon City and eventually in the rogue Isles.

If that is wrong... attack every story that uses her, every Dracula movie you ever saw, attack the movie Braveheart, Highlander, Cleopatra, Rome, Prophecy, Indiana Jones, and millions of others.

psstt.. I also own (or made for a friend)... Pocahontas, Count Di Cagliostro, Vlad Tepesh Dracul and Marie Laveau. Look them up on wikipedia...

Must say, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with taking over real places, or at least not BIG places. Why? Simply: It'd get noticed. If XV nuked korea, every hero in the world'd be on his tail, not to mention what was left of Korea. It dosn't make much sense. I think, in a world where the social and political climate SHOULD be vastly different, and those differences are largely ignored by canon (grr...) we should stick with made up. I mean, won't we feel silly if we take over the middle east and then the devs make a middle east zone? (for example)

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responsable for Jack the Ripper in Londen

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A quick note, but i know someone who's character was Jack the Ripper...

You're making out that every single person in any African country with a teensy bit of political power is a dictatorial tyrant, Liz. Can't say I agree with that.

Taking over real, known locations is utter godmoding because you would be forcing everybody related to the country in their backstory to react accordingly, whether they OOCly like to or not, as somebody stated previously in the topic. Although you're free to think about how the situation of the country might be different in the game world due to different events in history, you can't take it too far. There's lots of empty, open water on this rock, I'm sure you could float a few more islands and countries somewhere in it...

So tell me, how is a country that can be made up, tailored specifically for the needs of the plot, inferior to a real country with RL problems of its own right now?

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And by-the-way.. I am one of those that uses a real historic character as a city of villains toon for roleplay.. and I noticed that having that has helped me in my roleplay. I have dates, places, family ... everything handed to me. Just needed to build on what I had using history.

If you read Liz her full bio you see she is interweaved into history after that.. she was a friend of Marie Antonette in Versailles, responsable for Jack the Ripper in Londen, and for the vampiric encounters in Rhode Island... letting her end up in Paragon City and eventually in the rogue Isles.

If that is wrong... attack every story that uses her, every Dracula movie you ever saw, attack the movie Braveheart, Highlander, Cleopatra, Rome, Prophecy, Indiana Jones, and millions of others.

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It's for me more the fact that others will sues the same thing but have a totally different take on it. so you get 10 different version of each of those things and it is a absurd looking mess, which is why i try to avoid such situations but it is the major down fall of such an ill described world.

oh.. I am not saying that i don't agree on using a fictional country tailored made.. I actually am for that option.

For the same reasons you are all saying here.. the godmodding. But if it where only the members from LORD in the story, and we wouldn't have any links to the country used... it wouldnt do any harm at all.

As for bleed.. no issues there.. I would never do any of those things in RL. I totally think being influenced by movies or books and therefore becoming a murderer or something is totally rubbish... as every human is born with his own mind and will.

This thread is now blending with the 'playing a villain' as were asking ourselves now if we can actually roleplay those evil deeds a villain does that makes him a villain.

If I can't roleplay a murder in the most bloody and horrifying way possible, how can I roleplay a vampire of Liz her reputation then?

pstt.. I know how the countries in Africa work. I actually have been to a few of them. A lot of them already control corruption lots better these days. But there are still a few around that actually have another dictator every once in a while. It where those I referred to. Not Kenya, South Africa or Ethiopie... Just to name a few of the stabilized countries there.

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And by-the-way.. I am one of those that uses a real historic character as a city of villains toon for roleplay.. and I noticed that having that has helped me in my roleplay. I have dates, places, family ... everything handed to me. Just needed to build on what I had using history.

If you read Liz her full bio you see she is interweaved into history after that.. she was a friend of Marie Antonette in Versailles, responsable for Jack the Ripper in Londen, and for the vampiric encounters in Rhode Island... letting her end up in Paragon City and eventually in the rogue Isles.

If that is wrong... attack every story that uses her, every Dracula movie you ever saw, attack the movie Braveheart, Highlander, Cleopatra, Rome, Prophecy, Indiana Jones, and millions of others.

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It's for me more the fact that others will sues the same thing but have a totally different take on it. so you get 10 different version of each of those things and it is a absurd looking mess, which is why i try to avoid such situations but it is the major down fall of such an ill described world.

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I know... I met people who owned Elizabeth Bathory, Blood Countess and the likes... but never till now actually met the toon itself. In roleplay I just ignore they exist or tell myself that my name is so popular other killers and vampires started to use it to upp their reputation on my good.. ehem.. name.

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I don't know what went wrong here

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The usual - one of the older RPers not even involved in the thread decided to troll and spout nonsense. It happens a lot here - in fact everytime theres a decent plot they didn't start. Which means everytime there's a decent plot.

Now that he's down to suggesting they are not plotting to destroy Paragon, or any of the other things we've all read them plotting first hand, well, I won't bother to respond further. Sad though.


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The best thing I can mention about LORD is the fact that they're real, credible super villains. These Super Villains have a REAL grand scheme, to rule the world
...
However, to rule the world, naturally you would have to seize nations.

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Exactly so. And as several of us have pointed out, this is a paralel world of sorts, where back in 1919 a young American soldier set off on a trek that resulted in magic and wonder being allowed back into the world. He opened Pandora's Box and epic forces came out to change the world forever.

To that extent, no country in the game is a real country, in the real world because - duh - we aren't really supervillains. We're roleplayers supposedly playing the role of super-villains.

Now sadly, the game devs didn't give us a fully developped game-world cannon and reference. But the cannon they have given us, even in the simple timeline, shows that despite superpowers being around from the 1920s, the hand of fate still made the game world quite closely parallel our own.

Britain still has a monarchy. America still has a president. The Second world war still happened, and still was fought to pretty much the same timelines and devastations, right down to the world's first two nukes being dropped on Japan.

If super-heroes didn't change that event, the instant anihilation of hundreds of thousands, and the ongoing cancer that continues to this day, then I think there's a strong hint in there that most of the world is largely as we know it.

The cold war still happened, and it was actually far, far worse in this super-powered world, with statesman being nuked (killing the people he was attempting to save) and in turn starting an inevitable chain of events that lead to the Soviets actually launching a preemptive full nuclear strike against the US. This diversion from our world was then undone and set right by the super-heroes, bringing the cold-war to an end, and making super-heroes something of a thorn in the side of all political systems.

The UN still formed, and has a special bureau for superhuman affairs, because such super-powered individuals do have a profound effect on international politics and diplomacy, whether intended or not.

Now, the game cannon freely uses real countries and pretty significant personages, such as the ever-so-nearly-successful assassination of the British Monarch, or the capture of the US President. The battle with Nemesis is right in the heart of Washington DC, and the first Rikti War happened all over the world, to every major city, and the shattered resistance from all over the world gathered in Paragon for the counter-strike. Think how much destruction must have been in London, Paris, Tokyo, New York, Berlin, Malmo, Madrid, etc, etc when all the defenders of the world apparently decided that Paragon was the last stand place.

Game cannon says that bad things happen to the mirror versions of places we know. Game cannon says that using what we know of the real world helps us to more easily identify with the mirror, which despite all its differences, always tends to bear a lot of resemblance to our own.

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And then there is the 'bleed'. People who are capable of really going in character often feel the 'bleed'. I feel that this may be the only reasonable argument I've heard so far. It's a game. If doing something specific in the game can make you feel uncomfortable, then don't. It's not worth it. So if that's your argument then I'll accept it completely.

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Have to agree there. I am happy to play the incredibly dark aspects of Borealis because I believe there's a positive lesson in there. Most of us go through our lives being a lot less than pure and heroic. We're human, and we lie, we cheat, and worst of all, we deceive ourselves and pretend that some of the things we all do which we know are bad, aren't so bad, or are justified, or whatever.

This actually echoes a chat I had with Pious when he first approached me about the LoRDs idea. As I said to him then, there is good reason why the arch evil of all evils, Satan, is "the father of lies". Deception, most especially self-deception is the root of all evil.

I don't play Borealis as evil. I play him as tragic. He's a victim of his own weaknesses. His biggest sins are the ones that I think we'd all do well to think about. Ego, jealousy, and pettiness.

He isn't going to kill you to feast on your soul. He's going to kill you out of jealousy or pettiness. He's going to kill you because he can't abide you having what he can't. He'll kill you because he can't abide the fact you don't like him, and for him it is easier to kill you than to change his ways and be more likeable. We all recognize these dark emotions because we all see them around us all the time, and even within us, though we have hopefully learned not to act on such.

I don't feel bad about playing him because he actually helps me be more honest with myself, and avoid acting like him - most of the time. I can even feel good about playing him, because he's a lesson. He says that evil isn't the demon or the monster we can never become. Its the monster we already are, somewhere deep down, and barely control.

The scariest thing about villains, and the most important lesson, isn't how monstrous or diabolical they are. It is how human they are, and how alike us. We make monsters of them to lie to ourselves that we could never go that way. And in doing so, we never learn the real lesson that would actually prevent more such monsters coming.

The one thing they always say about some of the most dispicable villains throughout history is how normal they seemed. Often described as 'he seemed such a normal guy' or 'he seemed so nice' or 'he was just a short guy with glasses'.

Want to see a real villain? Think of the last thing that made you think, even for a moment, "I'd like to kill him" or "I wish you'd die" and go look in the mirror. That's the lie that Satan is the father of. The lie that we could never be villains.

Okay, someone burn that soapbox I just stood on.

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And by-the-way.. I am one of those that uses a real historic character as a city of villains toon for roleplay.. and I noticed that having that has helped me in my roleplay. I have dates, places, family ... everything handed to me. Just needed to build on what I had using history.

If you read Liz her full bio you see she is interweaved into history after that.. she was a friend of Marie Antonette in Versailles, responsable for Jack the Ripper in Londen, and for the vampiric encounters in Rhode Island... letting her end up in Paragon City and eventually in the rogue Isles.

If that is wrong... attack every story that uses her, every Dracula movie you ever saw, attack the movie Braveheart, Highlander, Cleopatra, Rome, Prophecy, Indiana Jones, and millions of others.

psstt.. I also own (or made for a friend)... Pocahontas, Count Di Cagliostro, Vlad Tepesh Dracul and Marie Laveau. Look them up on wikipedia...

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Edited due to sudden realisation that I may have been over-harsh.

Stripped of the hyperbole. You cannot say your Liz Bathory is a historical character and then pull in alsorts of spurious jockey-shorts about Marie Antoinette, Jack the Ripper etc. yes, the Countess was a real person. No she was not an immortal vampire. Nothing wrong with your version, it's just not a historical character.

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The usual - one of the older RPers not even involved in the thread decided to troll and spout nonsense. It happens a lot here - in fact everytime theres a decent plot they didn't start. Which means everytime there's a decent plot.

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so i not allowed to be interested in some potently very good RP? as for trolling... i don't start plots, i tried a couple of times and i'm terrible at it, so i don't bother, i may have read more in to something than you did, but that's having a different point of view, not trolling, i do rely to much on other people starting plots so i would do very well if i was trying to smother them or take over.

If you really want to believe I'm part of some "old guard" that want control or something... that's up to you.

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Britain still has a monarchy. America still has a president. The Second world war still happened, and still was fought to pretty much the same timelines and devastations, right down to the world's first two nukes being dropped on Japan.

If super-heroes didn't change that event, the instant anihilation of hundreds of thousands, and the ongoing cancer that continues to this day, then I think there's a strong hint in there that most of the world is largely as we know it.


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However there was also the Rikti War, whike superheroes might not be enough to stop decades of hate, an invasion from outer space (as far as the average man knows) would be.

Why hate the man in the next country when you've lost loved ones to a Rikti Dropship?
Hell if we've seen anything from Sci-Fi films its that mankind joins together when attacked by a threat from the stars.
The man from the enxt coutnry may be the wrong colour, tribe or religion but he is still a man and not a purple people eater from outer space.

Ever read Watchmen?

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Okay, someone burn that soapbox I just stood on.

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*applauds*
Well said, sir. A well-thought out argument that I mostly agreed with.
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*burns soapbox*

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However there was also the Rikti War, whike superheroes might not be enough to stop decades of hate, an invasion from outer space (as far as the average man knows) would be.

Why hate the man in the next country when you've lost loved ones to a Rikti Dropship?
Hell if we've seen anything from Sci-Fi films its that mankind joins together when attacked by a threat from the stars.
The man from the enxt coutnry may be the wrong colour, tribe or religion but he is still a man and not a purple people eater from outer space.

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I know several sci-stories of the kind, and indeed the even older stories of foes uniting to fight the common enemy. But you do need to remember they are just stories, indeed based on some real events, but neglecting the equal number of stories of people who simply used the chaos of the new situation to get away with killing their enemies.

Here's the sad truth that I feel compelled to use in the portrayal of a villain who is a victim of his own darkness.

* Virtually every country in the world has had at least one civil war.

* Despite African-Americans fighting for their country in the first world war, not only were they still victims of racist murders back in their homeland even during the war, but they were additionally treated appallingly by many of the soldiers on the same side fighting next to them. This included beatings and murders.

* After two such world wars where thousands of African-Americans had fought and died for their country, (and indeed there are many claims that predominently black companies were often more readily used as cannon-fodder), and even under the threat of the worst of the cold-war, portrayed and perceived as a very real threat to Americans of the time, especially during the cuban missile crisis, the KKK were murdering black americans. Common enemy be damned.

* Likewise, even without racism, right in the middle of a war, many soldiers are murdered by soldiers not just on the same side, but in the same company. Often over the most petty issues, such as cheating at cards, or laughing when one guy got a 'dear john' letter. Court martials are not just dealing with deserters by any stretch of the imagination.

* And how about the betrayal of a 'Dear John' letter itself, when the guy is off fighting for his homeland, putting his life on the line, and she can't even wait to tell him face to face.

No, I'm afraid that whatever nice fell-good fiction likes to tell us, fuelled by our own need to convince ourselves we're not a bad bunch, people are inherently petty.

To a mutant-hater, the aliens are only almost as bad as the mutants, because at least they ain't stealing his job, or his wife, or living next door and untouchable under the law.

The human capacity for short-sightedness and pettiness is the natural counter to their capacity for selflessness and vision. But probably a lot more common, and simply less reported.

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Ever read Watchmen?

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Nice story.

Ever seen "A Few Good Men"?
Ever seen "Mississipi Burning"?
Ever read the history of The League of Nations?
Ever read the history of the Suez Crisis?

Even entire nations can be petty, so you can always find petty individuals within one, no matter what outside events apply. Sad but true. No wonder the fictional version is so much more commercial.

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And by-the-way.. I am one of those that uses a real historic character as a city of villains toon for roleplay.. and I noticed that having that has helped me in my roleplay. I have dates, places, family ... everything handed to me. Just needed to build on what I had using history.

If you read Liz her full bio you see she is interweaved into history after that.. she was a friend of Marie Antonette in Versailles, responsable for Jack the Ripper in Londen, and for the vampiric encounters in Rhode Island... letting her end up in Paragon City and eventually in the rogue Isles.

If that is wrong... attack every story that uses her, every Dracula movie you ever saw, attack the movie Braveheart, Highlander, Cleopatra, Rome, Prophecy, Indiana Jones, and millions of others.

psstt.. I also own (or made for a friend)... Pocahontas, Count Di Cagliostro, Vlad Tepesh Dracul and Marie Laveau. Look them up on wikipedia...

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Edited due to sudden realisation that I may have been over-harsh.

Stripped of the hyperbole. You cannot say your Liz Bathory is a historical character and then pull in alsorts of spurious jockey-shorts about Marie Antoinette, Jack the Ripper etc. yes, the Countess was a real person. No she was not an immortal vampire. Nothing wrong with your version, it's just not a historical character.


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Edited... Liz is based upon a real historic person. I am not believing in the excistence of real vampires, sorcerers and/or demons.

I am interested in history, myth and urban legends. And this reflex in my created characters. I am actually a real down to earth guy.

to Ammon... applause... I completly agree with every single word you typed above.

Lets all be realistic. We roleplay as realistic possible within the cannon of the game Ciry of Heroes. If you can't seperate roleplay from reality... is it wise then to roleplay?

ps. independance Day was a good feel good movie. And if an invasion would strike for real we would probably work together... While the same leaders would allready be plotting how to come up as the ultimate winner from these events. That's reality...

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Ever seen "A Few Good Men"?
Ever seen "Mississipi Burning"?
Ever read the history of The League of Nations?
Ever read the history of the Suez Crisis?

Even entire nations can be petty, so you can always find petty individuals within one, no matter what outside events apply. Sad but true. No wonder the fictional version is so much more commercial.

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The difference being in those films and real life events there were no space aliens attacking the Earth.
As said before why hate the black man, when the green squid wants to kill you both with his ray gun?

You've got to remember that to the common man in the CoX universe the Rikti are just space aliens that might attack again at any moment. Goverments aren't going to weaken their armed forces fighting each other when at any moment the sky could darken and more ships appear.

During such an event every nation would try to gain power out of it in order to be stronger then its old enemy. Weaker countries will try to make alliances. Rich/strong countries like the USA would deffiantly try to copy the technology and keep for themselves.

Having an alien race invading will not remove all racism, hate and such in the world. That's is an utopia that is not gonne happen. It will give a common enemy to be dealt with, but that only last for the majority of that battle.

After that the human race will go on the same foot as before. And leaders would plan in advance...

In all of history arms dealers work best during wars and conflict. From every war someone will get rich. An alien invasion will not be any different. I am sure that between all the humans on earth there will be humans trying to betray the whole race by alliancing with the Rikti too. We done it before countless times, we will do again.

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During such an event every nation would try to gain power out of it in order to be stronger then its old enemy. Weaker countries will try to make alliances. Rich/strong countries like the USA would deffiantly try to copy the technology and keep for themselves.

Having an alien race invading will not remove all racism, hate and such in the world. That's is an utopia that is not gonne happen. It will give a common enemy to be dealt with, but that only last for the majority of that battle.

After that the human race will go on the same foot as before. And leaders would plan in advance...

In all of history arms dealers work best during wars and conflict. From every war someone will get rich. An alien invasion will not be any different. I am sure that between all the humans on earth there will be humans trying to betray the whole race by alliancing with the Rikti too. We done it before countless times, we will do again.

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Oh sure you'd have the odd scumbag trying to make money or power out of it. But wars would pretty much stop, you must remember while we as heroes and villians get to do missions that reveal all sorts of things about the Rikti to everyoner else, all the generals and normal people they are just space aliens that show up once in a while and Blitz the Earth.

So would be Mugabe esq dictator in Africa won't be able to attack his neighbouring country, his people don't want to risk not having enough soldiers to fight the Rikti, in turn he can't just force his will on his people, because his generals don't want to risk being in a cival war when the next atack arrives.

If you read Watchmen you can see how simply one man brought about World Peace at an even more untrusting stage of history.

What about Nemesis? Certainly he uses the chaos to try and further his course. Why should he be the only one?

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What about Nemesis? Certainly he uses the chaos to try and further his course. Why should he be the only one?

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He has several alternative Earths worth of resources at his command,and he does it on a interdimensional level.

I'm not saying that taking over a country by taking opeertunity of chaos is a bad thing, I'm just saying that using real life examples even with subtle name changes shouldn't work after all CoX Earth has an entirely different global situation going on.

More likely you'd have to start trouble between several nations first and then pick one to take over.

and if you take Nemisis as an inspiration you will see what I said is the way he also does it.

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So would be Mugabe esq dictator in Africa won't be able to attack his neighbouring country, his people don't want to risk not having enough soldiers to fight the Rikti, in turn he can't just force his will on his people, because his generals don't want to risk being in a cival war when the next atack arrives.

If you read Watchmen you can see how simply one man brought about World Peace at an even more untrusting stage of history.

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There are a couple of really important points here, but the first one is very simple.

Dude. The Watchmen is fiction. There are no world wars in Postman Pat either but it doesn't have a lot of weight in a discussion of real human nature.

Second. You don't think that the actual existance of Gods is perhaps a bit bigger news to humanity than just that there is life in alternate dimensions?

Statesman is Zeus incarnate. Hellions actually summon power from hell. Hell exists! Demons exist. The Circle of Thorms are real wizards. None of these revelations actually changed the broadest events of History. The Second world war not only still took place, but despite flying super-heroes on each side, all the same events, right up to the invention, and use of the atomic bombs, happened to the same timescales as our owm.

I personally think that's a big clue as to the likelihood that the hand of fate will continue to see the two universes mirror each other. This is deliberate. ((Because this is a commercial game, and they want people to be able to pick it up and get immersed without having to read an encyclopedia)).

We can sit at the sidelines all we like and say, "You know, once you have the least inkling that Hell is genuine, that has to change how you live your life, right?". We can say "You know, once you know magic exists, wouldn't the entire world be training magicians in the way they train scientists or doctors?" ((And most especially should have altered the events leading to the Second World war)).

Yet events from the 1920s unfold to mirror the politics of our own world. 80 years of men that can survive a direct hit by a tactical nuke did not change the nuclear arms race happening. 80 years of men who could fly through the skies on their own super-abilities did not stop the development of warplanes, helicopters, etc as weapons of war.

I have to say that Gods, super-heroes, magic, demons, and alternate dimensions are just as big a deal as the genuine existance of aliens. But its like Global Warming - most people choose to pretty much ignore it feeling unable to do anything about things on that scale.


Thirdly and finally for now: the small dictatorship issue. I've already shown hard examples of where having a bigger enemy, right in your face, does not prevent you just using the gun you are given to fight with to shoot the guy you don't like next to you.

Way back in history, warring tribes in Africa suddenly found themselves both invaded by white-skinned 'alien' men from a far away homeland. Your logic says that they should have ceased all domestic dispute and united against this far greater common enemy who would from that day forward prove the greater threat and change their world forever.

What really happened in many cases was that they just sought technology from the white-men to be able to shoot the tribesmen next door rather than spear or knife him. They'd in fact use the invasion of the whites as even more excuse to prey on their neighbours, and sell them as slaves to the whites.

A one-off? Try looking up the history of the Native Americans. Did all inter-tribal wars cease with the arrival of the far greater foe, visibly alien? Nope. The tribes did not unite until far too late, and only then once they had already lost their homelands, lost their nations, and had nothing left to lose.

The small dictators and tyrants of the world are actually more free than ever under a Rikti threat. Because the rest of the world HAS to defend them to prevent the Rikti gaining their lands to build a portal in. The world has to consider giving them better arms, technology, etc, and we know theywon't all agree to that. The UN would actually have far more tensions, as communist nations want to supply the latest suuper-weapons to other communist countries, while the very vocal anti-communist nations would be vehemently opposed, but actually powerless to stop it without invading and sparking a war.

However, the Rikti attacked in a manner to win a war. They focused on taking down opposition first, thus the heaviest concentration of prolonged all-out warfare happened in Paragon City, against the heroes and magicians who offered the strongest resistance.

The Rikti don't stop wars and political tension. They actually increase it, by making rikti-resistance yet anther scarce resource that is seen to be hoarded in the USA and not given to others.

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So would be Mugabe esq dictator in Africa won't be able to attack his neighbouring country, his people don't want to risk not having enough soldiers to fight the Rikti, in turn he can't just force his will on his people, because his generals don't want to risk being in a cival war when the next atack arrives.

If you read Watchmen you can see how simply one man brought about World Peace at an even more untrusting stage of history.

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There are a couple of really important points here, but the first one is very simple.

Dude. The Watchmen is fiction. There are no world wars in Postman Pat either but it doesn't have a lot of weight in a discussion of real human nature.

Second. You don't think that the actual existance of Gods is perhaps a bit bigger news to humanity than just that there is life in alternate dimensions?

Statesman is Zeus incarnate. Hellions actually summon power from hell. Hell exists! Demons exist. The Circle of Thorms are real wizards. None of these revelations actually changed the broadest events of History. The Second world war not only still took place, but despite flying super-heroes on each side, all the same events, right up to the invention, and use of the atomic bombs, happened to the same timescales as our owm.

I personally think that's a big clue as to the likelihood that the hand of fate will continue to see the two universes mirror each other. This is deliberate. ((Because this is a commercial game, and they want people to be able to pick it up and get immersed without having to read an encyclopedia)).

We can sit at the sidelines all we like and say, "You know, once you have the least inkling that Hell is genuine, that has to change how you live your life, right?". We can say "You know, once you know magic exists, wouldn't the entire world be training magicians in the way they train scientists or doctors?" ((And most especially should have altered the events leading to the Second World war)).

Yet events from the 1920s unfold to mirror the politics of our own world. 80 years of men that can survive a direct hit by a tactical nuke did not change the nuclear arms race happening. 80 years of men who could fly through the skies on their own super-abilities did not stop the development of warplanes, helicopters, etc as weapons of war.

I have to say that Gods, super-heroes, magic, demons, and alternate dimensions are just as big a deal as the genuine existance of aliens. But its like Global Warming - most people choose to pretty much ignore it feeling unable to do anything about things on that scale.


Thirdly and finally for now: the small dictatorship issue. I've already shown hard examples of where having a bigger enemy, right in your face, does not prevent you just using the gun you are given to fight with to shoot the guy you don't like next to you.

Way back in history, warring tribes in Africa suddenly found themselves both invaded by white-skinned 'alien' men from a far away homeland. Your logic says that they should have ceased all domestic dispute and united against this far greater common enemy who would from that day forward prove the greater threat and change their world forever.

What really happened in many cases was that they just sought technology from the white-men to be able to shoot the tribesmen next door rather than spear or knife him. They'd in fact use the invasion of the whites as even more excuse to prey on their neighbours, and sell them as slaves to the whites.

A one-off? Try looking up the history of the Native Americans. Did all inter-tribal wars cease with the arrival of the far greater foe, visibly alien? Nope. The tribes did not unite until far too late, and only then once they had already lost their homelands, lost their nations, and had nothing left to lose.

The small dictators and tyrants of the world are actually more free than ever under a Rikti threat. Because the rest of the world HAS to defend them to prevent the Rikti gaining their lands to build a portal in. The world has to consider giving them better arms, technology, etc, and we know theywon't all agree to that. The UN would actually have far more tensions, as communist nations want to supply the latest suuper-weapons to other communist countries, while the very vocal anti-communist nations would be vehemently opposed, but actually powerless to stop it without invading and sparking a war.

However, the Rikti attacked in a manner to win a war. They focused on taking down opposition first, thus the heaviest concentration of prolonged all-out warfare happened in Paragon City, against the heroes and magicians who offered the strongest resistance.

The Rikti don't stop wars and political tension. They actually increase it, by making rikti-resistance yet anther scarce resource that is seen to be

hoarded in the USA and not given to others.

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Just to point something out.
If you were correct that this fictional world remains fractured with countryies at war despite the unifying effects of a global attack.

Then why hasn't Nemisis done what the LoRDs are planning to do?

Why has he had to go and create chaos if its ment to already exist.

Why the varied plans, the mass waste of resources the spoliers the whole second Rikti War when he could just replace a dictator or two with one his mechanical creations and spread the same type of destruction the LoRDs plan?


And lastly to write off Watchmen, Independance Day etc as just fiction and then try to impose real world conditions on another fictional world, a fictional world mind you that is closer to other works of fiction in history rather than our own, its a bit arrogant isn't it?

To say CoX world would act like this and only this!

Despite time and time again fictrional universes going for the whole unite against the common foe.

Particularly since their is no evidence in any of the timelines or story arcs in game to show any signs of unrest in foreign nations.

In fact even game play mechanics back me up, you find two sets of rival mobs say warriors and freakshow, they fight each other you show up as a common enemy they both attack you.

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In roleplay I just ignore they exist or tell myself that my name is so popular other killers and vampires started to use it to upp their reputation on my good.. ehem.. name.

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which is exactly what i can see a majority of people doing with Lords taking over a real world country.
from what i've heard from people, the majority seem to be against it, and as such (as we are RPers NOT fiction writers, and have to remember we're not the only people controlling the 'plot') will probably choose to ignore it.

if people don't agree with what your doing, expect to be poo-pooed as a bunch of delusional freaks, just like that vagrant at the end of the street who claims to be the Tzar of Russia.

But it seems a fine line. No one seems to mind LoRDs taking control of A country, just a rather large chunk wont accept is as "unofficial cannon" if it happens to be a REAL country.


I had thought LoRDs was originally a project to strengthen the COMMUNITY around villain RP, not slice it down the middle because a few wont agree with people (don't you love democracy), but clearly i must of been wrong.

From the ingame evidence of the world state, you'd have to pull what Recluse did or what Nemsis keeps trying to do.

Create a big international disaster, start a war or something so everyones eyes are diverted to one corner of the globe, then quickly sieze power some where else while everyone is trying to solve the other crisis.

But to claim your taking advantage or real world situations or doing so with poorly done parodyies of real world situations it doesn't really fit the political stage as presented in game and its also in poor taste.