The Other Problem with Super-Villains

I just want to make my point a bit more clear about character death.

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As long as it's not just a random death caused by a bad dice roll (yes, P&P RP) but rather an essential part of the story, it might be the hight of satisfaction really.

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(I know. I'm quoting myself... )

Imagine the following (fantasy) scene:
Your team is fighting a hoard of enemies and the odds are heavily set against you (think the battle of Helms Deep).
Your own fighter is holding the bridge so that the rest of the party can get away. He's bleeding badly and is exhausted from hours of fighting when suddenly the GM is starting a low musical piece that is steadily growing in intensity. Now you can hear that it's the Flight of the Valkyries (by Wagner). While the other characters are getting away safely, your own dies heroicaly but is taken by the Valkyries to Valhalla to be a part of the Einherjar!

Now that's a character death you can't complain about!

I am still very much toying with creating a villain character, but I know myself, whatever villain I will create will be EVIL. Nasty evil. And nasty evil in a way that doesn't ever advertise its evilness. This tends to really tick off characters who feel their character should never make a mistake or get caught out because evil characters should supposedly always drop hints about how evil they are. I have the potential to really cheese off a lot of people who can't keep the IC/OOC thing seperated...

I am however very strongly considering doing it. I'd be tempted to join the Terra Liberation Front with said evil character but that my character isn't an anarchist, she's facist - however I rather think that at bottom the TLF fits that bill.

In any event, I think I might have a play with the Villain side and see what I come up with.

go for it ,i do find that there are very few evil villians about .. most seem to be organised crime type villians , or the odd monster type , no real nasty types ... it should make a refreshing change .
Personaly i have found trying to play evil type villians very hardwork as most people dont want to be in the same road as them for long..

I have at least one character that could be considered as "Evil". He's a mastermind called Mr Hoke.

While he's a robotics mastermind he's one of those types that's willing to take whatever he wants (including biological components), whenever he wants from whoever he wants to complete his plans. He is aware, on some level, that what he does is wrong, he just chooses to ignore it.

The whole "He's too evil" problem has never really come up for me. He is who he is, who I made him. He's a psychotic, self obsessed, multi-specialisation genius with no care for humanity.

When it comes to "getting into character" I never have. I let him do it for me, I've known him so long I can tell what he'd do.

He started off caring for people, now he just doesn't care.

While many might consider this a Two-dimensional character I still see a lot of room for expansion. Reasons? Beliefs? Origins? All mainly untouched.

In general I believe it's not the character, but the thought behind them and the thought and progression that goes into them that counts.

Now THIS is what I'm talking about. The League of Righteous Destroyers is just the kind of threat I was talking about! A genuine threat to Paragon City that'll require that heroes and supergroups unite, a threat that'll make for some interesting reactions from the villain side as well ^^

Only problem? As any smart villain, they're doing it all in secret. Well, that only makes things more interesting

And, I might add, the League of Righteous Destroyers is probably that most brilliantly written thread I've seen so far. Mind-numbingly intense, intimate and intelligent; Kudos!

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And, I might add, the League of Righteous Destroyers is probably that most brilliantly written thread I've seen so far. Mind-numbingly intense, intimate and intelligent; Kudos!

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Well, for my humble part in the League of Righteous Destroyers thread, thanks a million for the kudos. Its appreciated. And you are absolutely right about how intimate and intense it feels. We're all getting these deliciously rich insights into some really well thought out villains, and its a joy to be a part of it.

It is also a real relief, because as this thread has noted, you simply don't get to portray this sort of stuff in Pocket D, or in casual meetings. Characters like these would not reveal their inner motives to anyone without good reason.

Borealis has always avoided Pocket D. Why would he go there, and assuming there were good reason, he'd just do that. He has absolutely no interest in socializing, because he loathes and despises people most of the time. It is only in a thread and situation like the LORDs one that he can finally be portrayed in his full glory, along with the unspoken thought processes that are such an important part of what he is.

yes i full echo Mr_Erth ..the LoRD is a must read ...

as said pity that its a closed meeting .. please LoRD bring it out to the rest of us .. ill even let you win the odd fight ..

It can depend on what "evil" is. IMO evil is the utter disregard for human life and the want/need to make others suffer or to make them bow to your will. This all of course has to be of ones own will and you MUST know what you are doing and the impact is has on the person(s). So a psychopathic killer might not think he is wrong hence in the acting you don't act evil or even let on that you are killing. To have an effect on my emotions would have to be some serious stuff that goes into the realm in an intent to hurt the other person for the pleasure or joy of doing so. As such i would act happy because my character is happy (though in an extreme sence). Being evil might not mean being angry or sad (depressed in an true sence). So when RPing remember if you are TRULY evil then you (your toon) enjoy it so try to feel happy when doing your evil tasks if that at all makes any sence.

I disagree. That is not the only way of being evil. I can easily imagine someone who is feeling terrible and simply lives to make others feel the same. That wouldn't make him happy, just less sad by comparison.

Although it is an interesting point, and it may apply to some, then I can hardly imagine all from the LORD (as another example) being happy and at the same time I don't think you'll find a much better example of evilness.

The only issue I have with the LORD lot is - "Do we get to be participants or merely an audience?" I can forsee this being a "I'll fight my alts on hero side" sort of thing, which I'm sure is fine, but certainly isn't very welcoming for other people to interact or even follow along. Rp seems very insular on Union; people only rping with their own set because they don't want to deal with tools...but again, I think that's where we come up with an earlier point; not everyone is a tool. Just because one might see a new name doesn't mean they're completely inexperienced and incapable of contributing to the community. Roleplay for me is about community, not merely about rping amongst ourselves and only giving out tidbits to the masses. I am not one who ascribes to the camp of "I'm only interested if I'm involved." It's worth getting new blood into these scenarios, but that can't be done without opening up the closed cliques of rp from time to time.

I certainly like where the whole LORD idea is going and it would be great to mix it up as Jean-Luc certainly has a vested interest in taking a few involved down a peg or ten...however, I do wonder whether or not he'd ever get the chance. I do hope this is a case where quite a few heroes are able to band together and get their rp fix on, rather than just a few selected groups. After all, as has been said, the perk of playing villains is also being able to PLAY one, in sharp relief...and that often requires not merely an audience, but interaction as well.

You are of course right about RP in a MMO is about community.

But a thing like LoRD is best left amongst a close group. Otherwise it will be utter chaos on the forum. And the LoRD:s aren't chaotic.

I would also like to be a part of something like this, since I'd love to play a "true" villain. But this was not my time for it, and I'm content in watching the show.

Hopefully they will "invite" a few heroes to oppose them, but then again, it's completely up to the already involved players.
Just because I want to play with someone doesn't mean that I can barge in upon them and force my own ideas down their throats (No offence meant! I'm just trying to make a point.)

Your initiative with the RP-roundtable is great. I love it and intend to involve the newly created SG Guardians of the Earth into it. But not all scenarios fit the "open" format. And LoRD is such a closed setting.

Well, since it's still in the early stages, we really can't know yet. And even should it never come to more than a show to which we are the audience, then it is still a show worth seeing ^^

I like that fact that it was invite only, because I can only imagine how much that scene would be destroyed be letting anyone interested in. How it unfolds from, time will tell I guess.

That being said, as sweet as it looks, I certainly hope it'll allow some interaction.

I can see this grow in more interaction rather easily after the meeting produced some results that involve actions of the participants... Even actions in Siren's call, Pocket D or something so that real interference is possible.

hmmm.... would be nice to see some responsable RP within a pvp zone.

As is LORD will play out the characters and set up a solid base...

A good old fashioned PvP fight would indeed be brilliant, it's something I'd like to see done more often, really.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not having a go because of the thread, I'm just hoping this won't be yet another thread of "Look at the fun rp we're having ingame, but since you're not one of US, you're not invited." I certainly can empathise with a fair bit of "not wanting to be round the tools" - but not everyone is a tool, as I said before.

Establishing a base for the LORD crew would be cool, setting it up a bit like 4th wall as it's a coalition of a bigger stronghold would work; it's not too difficult getting the influence up to build it, it wouldn't even need to be big enough to withstand base attacks if you used the arenas for actual battles - which means less issue of ganking and interference by non rpers.

Ooooo the thowts!

I see the LoRDs as being potentially a huge and rich source of perhaps several community-wide plots. In other words, even whie a closed and unknown group, they are an obvious plot device.

Better yet, they might offer, potentially, the opportunity for a batmanesque super-detective to brilliantly detect the unseen hands behind several apparently unconnected plots and incidents.

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But a thing like LoRD is best left amongst a close group. Otherwise it will be utter chaos on the forum. And the LoRD:s aren't chaotic.

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Hatesman and XV can both be a little chaotic at times, I suspect. However, more interesting to the generation of some serious community-wide plots is that while the LoRDs might not be chaotic, they certainly intend to bring chaos to Paragon.

Just as a 'for instance', the LoRDs might see opportunities to weaken and undermine the heroes and the governance of Paragon in many ways. From something as simple as supplying new and more powerful resources and weapons to existing villain groups, upto unleashing viral strains to create panic and misery, or planting bombs to destroy landmarks, and undermine all public faith in the heroes and authorities.

However, if you are looking for the opportunity to face off against the LoRDs then prepare for a long wait and a longer journey. They are far from idiots, and while a few may have an insanity that makes certain things predictable, they are each quite capable of working on a grand scale, undetected and unseen. The power behind layers of unknowing minions doing their will.

If the LoRDs do not remain an ongoing plot for years, then frankly they'll have been misplayed. We should instead be able to grab several community-wide plots of the scale of Britanic's wonderful "Riot in the Row" that only collectively, and with great opportunity to finally showcase the brilliance of some super-genius AIs and super-detectives even revealing the hidden hands of malice steering the events from the shadows.

I think the first level of opening this up will be in the LoRDs deciding which other groups to involve, use and exploit. You won't be finding the likes of Romanov or Liz personally roaming around looking to fight a hero one on one unless something forces their hand and strips them of all their political tools, armies of minions, etc. That's what they have such things for.

However, do bear in mind that I am not the GM for this group, merely one of the lucky players getting to finally explore the hitherto unseen side of one of my darkest and most fascinating to explore characters. So my views and goals and hopes are merely that.

"Do we get to be participants or merely an audience?"

Good question Netherwitch. I have of course, got my own plans and suggestions for the future of the LORDs and will be discussing where we take this project with the other 6 members. For now, it is safe to say (as I hinted on the Nomads thread) that the project will involve many community plots over the year. Mainly mass PVP. For example, in early 2006 when Wu Long Shin and an army of other villaingroups struck Sirens Call, and again in late 2006 (you were not here yet) when the Gang and coalitions (see Handbook) invaded Paragon City (consecutive battles in all four PvP zones). These community plot events involved both Union PvP'ers and RP'ers amassing literally under 100 participants. So, look forward to a huge chance to participate, and/or spectate. I'm thinking of subplots with villains (probably mainly the Corporation, League of Scoundrels) and subplots with heroes (mainly the Nomads, the Militia) where fighting or investigating the LORDs will be key to the hero's ultimate victory.

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I see the LoRDs as being potentially a huge and rich source of perhaps several community-wide plots. In other words, even whie a closed and unknown group, they are an obvious plot device.

Better yet, they might offer, potentially, the opportunity for a batmanesque super-detective to brilliantly detect the unseen hands behind several apparently unconnected plots and incidents.

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But a thing like LoRD is best left amongst a close group. Otherwise it will be utter chaos on the forum. And the LoRD:s aren't chaotic.

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Hatesman and XV can both be a little chaotic at times, I suspect. However, more interesting to the generation of some serious community-wide plots is that while the LoRDs might not be chaotic, they certainly intend to bring chaos to Paragon.

Just as a 'for instance', the LoRDs might see opportunities to weaken and undermine the heroes and the governance of Paragon in many ways. From something as simple as supplying new and more powerful resources and weapons to existing villain groups, upto unleashing viral strains to create panic and misery, or planting bombs to destroy landmarks, and undermine all public faith in the heroes and authorities.

However, if you are looking for the opportunity to face off against the LoRDs then prepare for a long wait and a longer journey. They are far from idiots, and while a few may have an insanity that makes certain things predictable, they are each quite capable of working on a grand scale, undetected and unseen. The power behind layers of unknowing minions doing their will.

If the LoRDs do not remain an ongoing plot for years, then frankly they'll have been misplayed. We should instead be able to grab several community-wide plots of the scale of Britanic's wonderful "Riot in the Row" that only collectively, and with great opportunity to finally showcase the brilliance of some super-genius AIs and super-detectives even revealing the hidden hands of malice steering the events from the shadows.

I think the first level of opening this up will be in the LoRDs deciding which other groups to involve, use and exploit. You won't be finding the likes of Romanov or Liz personally roaming around looking to fight a hero one on one unless something forces their hand and strips them of all their political tools, armies of minions, etc. That's what they have such things for.

However, do bear in mind that I am not the GM for this group, merely one of the lucky players getting to finally explore the hitherto unseen side of one of my darkest and most fascinating to explore characters. So my views and goals and hopes are merely that.

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And this is exactly what I'm hoping for!
To be involved in this plot with a hero wouldn't have to be a face off and flexing of muscles!
The LoRDs are far from stupid and I would be really dissapointed if they weren't hidden behind armies of minions and massive political red-tape.
They are Villains after all and not mere criminals.

What I meant when I wished to be "invited" into this plot, was that I wouldn't start writing stories about it until I got the "go" from those already involved.
And even then I wouldn't want to let my heroes "solve" anything too quickly. Of course they might bust a weapon smuggling operation or some high profile act of terrorism, but wouldn't be able to get solid evidence on the powers behind it all (i.e. the LoRDs) since they are too slippery to be caught in something like that.

Think Lex Luthor and/or Kingpin. They've been up to no good for years without dirt sticking to them. The heroes KNOW that they're behind it all, but can't proove a thing!

A plot like that would be really brilliant.


BTW! I would also like some RP in a PvP zone. That would be a very good way of meeting the adversaries on "neutral" ground, without the need to go to a disco.

Hard to manage maybe and would require moderation from all involved, but the rewards from such an experience would be great.

The Corporation is very interested in the LORDS (Mainly as a rival.) We're waiting on the boss (Mr. Sebastian) to get back from his holiday then we can arrange a OOC meet about IC things if you would like?

Where are the LoRDs going? I don’t know. For now, I’m happy to play my part and enact a character that for ages, simply hasn’t had the right environment to do so. The LoRDs are elusive, hard to tackle and rightly so. I too don’t see them wandering around the world looking for likely heroes to pick on. RP PvP can be a great thing when it happens but I’d be surprised if any of the LoRDs (with the exception of Hates and XV) would be brash enough to dive headlong into a PvP zone. Erebus certainly won’t be, he’s far too conniving. (Plus, I also suck at PvP – Fact. )

I’m glad to see that the thread is exciting people but like all good things, they take time to come to fruition. Right now the LoRDs are simply gathering, collaborating and planning. Once (and if) they decide on a plan of action, only then will others begin to get involved. To throw open the doors to everyone would cause utter chaos as every hero worth his salt attempts to pound the LoRDs into pate. I suspect that when (and if, remember they’re not in complete agreement yet) the LoRDs make a move, people may not even know it’s them. So far, not one hero knows about this meeting and it’s likely that they never will. Not until it’s too late of course. Mwah ha ha ha!!!

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The Corporation is very interested in the LORDS (Mainly as a rival.) We're waiting on the boss (Mr. Sebastian) to get back from his holiday then we can arrange a OOC meet about IC things if you would like?

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Well, I mean I will chat out of character with anyone we plan plots with, but we have nothing yet and remember, in-character wise, the LORDs don't even exist. *waves fingers in a mesmerizing spell*

Oh and GoodGuy, I think you might've missed my above post.

The LORDs? Never heard of them

The Corp is aware however that some-thing is happening because of Pistol's encounter with two of our people, but we have no idea what. As far as any-one in the Corp is concerned we are keeping a close eye on Crimson Cove

We're staying out, but we are standing on the lines peering in.

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Oh and GoodGuy, I think you might've missed my above post.

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Yup. You posted it while I was typing my reply.

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We're staying out, but we are standing on the lines peering in.

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Hehe. We all know what happens to eyes that peer in through keyholes.

They suddenly realise there was ink on the lock and they come away with a keyhole shape on their face?

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But a thing like LoRD is best left amongst a close group. Otherwise it will be utter chaos on the forum. And the LoRD:s aren't chaotic.

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Hatesman and XV can both be a little chaotic at times, I suspect.

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I tend to play Hatesman as if he's the Anti-Order, like Anti-Matter is to Matter. There has to be a little bit less than equal amount of Chaos to any order in the world, to give the order reason. Which is why he slapped an Usher when he entered the room. (That and the fact I'm probably sub-conciously taking it on The Usher of Pop Warbling Fame)

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You won't be finding the likes of Romanov or Liz personally roaming around looking to fight a hero one on one unless something forces their hand and strips them of all their political tools, armies of minions, etc.

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But on the flip-side Hatesman relishes combat and is sort of like a moth to the flame in that respect. His crazy monster side will launch into it, and then when he gets his [censored] whupped, he goes on a downer from the crazy and runs away like a screaming scientist who's just had his hands amputated. - More on that later.

What I'm trying to say is that the LoRDs sort of embody every aspect of evil, which is excellent for sticking their tendrils into everything like some nightmarish deviant, and being backed up by interesting elements.

You've got a bit of Chaos, a bit of Organised Crime, Dark Stalkery, Brilliantly Mad Science, Vampires and Demons, Armies of Evil, Terroists AND Super-Powers - Note to all: Mustn't forget flaming eyes/super-speed/telepathy type Super-Powers - Very Important.

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Well, I mean I will chat out of character with anyone we plan plots with, but we have nothing yet and remember, in-character wise, the LORDs don't even exist. *waves fingers in a mesmerizing spell*

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Yes, but I also agree with this, don't get too excited before it all begins.