The Other Problem with Super-Villains

Ok some of my thoughts on roleplaying villains.

I think one reason it is very hard to roleplay villains in this game is the lack of consequence. Essentially no matter what you do you can not force any permanent changes on the game world or it's inhabitants. A big part of villainy is making changes to sort that individuals own goals.

I think this quote which I have adopted for Big Game after his infamous Rikti Monkey hunt is very apt and sums up CoX nicely...

"The Monkeys aint kilt, theys de-feat-ed!"

Basically if you want lasting consequence you have to sacrifice characters of your own or get some sort of consensus on results, which as we all know isnt always easy.

It's because of this reason why the truly evil villains in CoX only really get to shine in fiction or forum RP where there are less boundries.

Blowing my own trumpet, I consider my Partisan, and Humanity First one of the most truly villainous outfits out there. In game there is no effective way of showing this but in the realms of writing they are out there engaged in all manner of terrorist activity, scaremongering, and deception.

Another example would be the villainous version of my main Britanic I created for an alternate universe thread we have on the Militia forums(Dont worry, I got no intention of making him ever come to the Union Universe). In this 'Mirrorverse' thread he plans to encourage crime and destabilise Paragon to the point where he can essentially buy up the city for next to nothing, and redevelop it for massive profit and power. In order to do this he actively floods the streets with Dyne at low prices, as well as encouraging intergang violence.

Of course I couldnt really do this ingame because I have no way of buying up the city, or enforcing that the reason that two gangs were fighting was because of my character's actions.

Basically without in game consequence the only way you can have a truly villainous character is if others are willing to go along with your story, and accept that character is truly capable of such deeds.

Which brings me to the LoRDs...

Thanks to the wonderful writing and characterisation people can see the LoRDs as being believable villains, and therefore (IMO) have taken it upon themselves to elevate them to true 'Supervillain' status. Why do I say that? How many people are out there thinking I wouldn't mind taking a pop at these guys? At the end of the day if it was Villain X in Pocket D spouting on about what they were capable of, most would either totally ignore them, or dismiss them as a nutter, or a braggart. Once that hasw happened you are not really a villain you are just pathetic! Thanks to the LoRDs thread we have a group of believable bad guys.

To pick an example, the LORD discussed taking over a smaller country. Now, while there is effectively no way of doing this in game, doesn't mean that they can't do it in here and reactions can then come in game. If we think outside the box, there are really close to limitless things we could do. All it would require is consensus. We have to accept what they say they've done. Likewise, the LORD is NOTHING if people don't recognize them as dangerous. So that's the good thing about having believable bad guys: consensus should be easier gained and we'll really have something interesting to react to, something to talk about.

So, if we recognize them as dangerous, that is if/when they become that a little more known (perhaps it is just discovered that there are someone, without specific names), then all of a sudden we have multiple plot hooks for EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER IN THE GAME! Every can get involved because, obviously, LORD is a force to be reckoned with whether you seek to stop them because they're evil, because they're rivals or perhaps seek an alliance with them. IF you can find them. The fact that LORD has potential to spawn HUNDREDS of character plots and several community wide plots is what really makes my jaw drop. This. Is. Wicked.

Of course, at this stage everything is just possibilities and nothing is certain, but it looks like this is gonna "super-duper-mega-awesome and stuffs" (TM) and even better than what I dreamed of when I posted about a global threat 3 pages back (or so).

Once again, kudos to you guys and good luck with the project! To all you others, I can only encourage support for this and when LORD decide something happen, then accept it for a fact (if it is credible, of course) or this thing will hit the floor.

Major comic writer rule.. youre hero is only as good as his villain... And often the villain is even more important to the story.

Interesse is faltering in the islands.... Ultimatly ruling a small country might have ended up as becoming bored out of our skulls.

Romanov ended up being back into his tower in Paragon a lot again... He recently was contacted by Bathory to influence the media in order for her to go back into the shadows again. Erebus joined Bathory is reshaping her shadow power base in the Rogue Islands after a certain Nighthunters fiasco that gave her way too much publicity.

Hatesman stepped out before we took the Island over. What he does now is unsure to me.

Can someone fill out the rest of the lost information?

Right, there are a lot of long posts in this thread, so I stopped reading after page 2. I agree a lot with things that have been said - that it's hard to get into the head of a murderous psychopath, to know your villain is doomed not to conquer much of anything, and that it isn't easy for a villain to chill out with other villains for some regular social interraction. But I think the perhaps largest issue is that we roleplay against other people and their characters, so we can't just go around killing or maiming or completely destroying lives all the time. If one plays a prideful murderer, can we just slit a throat in the night if a cape acts condescending? For a villain to be a villain, he needs to harm people, and that means either faceless NPC's or PC's that someone likely wants to stick around a while longer. And if it's just, "Okay, so I killed a dozen faceless, unnamed NPC's off-screen", it lacks most any actual weight that such a deed would have. I think that's the issue that's the most difficult to circumvent. Well, I might be wrong for all I know.

Hoo, zombie thread is zombie. *blows the dust off*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I blame the zombie forum, found this just a couple of pages back in time.

Well if we're ressing it I might as well chip in.

The problem with most "Super Evil, Mwahaha" villain and RP is actually quite simple.

No one really wants to talk to them.

Sure they want to hit them, or lock them up, but no one wants to talk to that guy. He's got nothing interesting to say other than "I'm evil, I'll mess you up. Insult, jibe, hate."

No one with half a brain talks to someone who's full of nothing but venom. Unless it's directed at someone else.

Pumice is a fairly evil Villain who I had who had no trouble getting RP. Yes they were an unashamed thug, killer and crook. But they had fun doing it and liked to let other people in on the fun. She found it all a barrel of dark laughs and generally people were happy to talk to her because despite being a horrible person, she was still interesting to have a drink with and had some good stories to tell.

I disagree with the "A Hero is only as good as his Villain" because let's face it that's rarely true. Spiderman's Villains suck, but Spiderman himself is great. Batman's Villains are great, but Batman himself is a fairly flat character unless 'very' well written. I love the Birds of Prey, but I'd be really hard pressed to name even one Villain of theirs. Except Lady Shiva and she really doesn't count as she's not really a Villain as such.

And the best kind of 'Real' Villain is Lex Luthor or Doctor Doom in my opinion. Classy, but evil.