I like it, but my tank is fire/nrg, i have it slotted that i can use it twice during the duration of fiery embrace and whirling hands. combine that with blazing arua and burn it helps churn out some respectable damage.
however as a invul its probably quite quite skip able a long as you have no problems holding ago like you say.
let the blasters do the AoE damage unless you can fit it into your build, it cant do any harm + sciroccos dervish is a lovely set that you could wack in it
I really like Whirling Hands on my Fire/EM, but then again, I use it after I hit both Build up and Fiery Embrace. Also, I don't have a Taunt Aura( I damn well hate Blazing Aura ), so it does help me a bit.
It's difficult to judge how useful it is on a Invul after ED though. You don't need it for aggro, the damage is not that great and it's fairly expensive end wise, which is something you can't really spare. This can be helped a bit by slotting certain IO sets of course.
On the other hand, what other options do you have? You're most likely taking Bone Smasher, Energy Transfer and Total Focus, which is about 1 attack short of a proper attack chain. You could get Energy Punch, but Whirling Hands does about the same damage and it's AoE.
So in the end it's all up to playstyle I think. If you prefer to play more as a Scranker, then I'd take it, but if you prefer being the Meatshield then I'd skip it.
I still like it on my Inv/Energy Tank - it's just handy as an extra "hey, lookit me!" power. The AoE damage isn't too bad, either.
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
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So in the end it's all up to playstyle I think. If you prefer to play more as a Scranker, then I'd take it, but if you prefer being the Meatshield then I'd skip it.
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I like to think of myself as a meaty Scranker. 
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
Your not a tight grouper to get the most out of it. When it hits 10 you can do alot of damage to group more damage to group than any of your other attacks. Its one of the worst pbaoes a Tanker can get but in terms of survivability with its chance of stun its not bad at all but in its control the "wander" may not be too good for an Invuln. Id have it though, unlike some pbaoes its useable in the air and so Id be like great! CoP trial! Fly up in the middle of those Rularuu buggers and Whirl!
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
first of all, i disagree with this: [ QUOTE ]
So in the end it's all up to playstyle I think. If you prefer to play more as a Scranker, then I'd take it, but if you prefer being the Meatshield then I'd skip it.
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rather i think the opposite, a scranker wont be surrounded by those big group of mobs that makes this a useful power. While a tanker who gather a big group of enemies tight to him will.
The sound of WRRRAAPPAPAPAPAPAAP as it hits 5.6.7.8 enemies or more thats surrounded you after youve first jumped inside that big group, hit the Boss in the middle to get the others attention with your invincibility aura and then let loose with whirly hands is a beautiful sound.
Apart from the benefits listed by Shannon, there always a use for a PBAoE when you have that mob you cant target because its stuck in a wall or that Arachnos who smoke grenaded you.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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rather i think the opposite, a scranker wont be surrounded by those big group of mobs that makes this a useful power. While a tanker who gather a big group of enemies tight to him will.
The sound of WRRRAAPPAPAPAPAPAAP as it hits 5.6.7.8 enemies or more thats surrounded you after youve first jumped inside that big group, hit the Boss in the middle to get the others attention with your invincibility aura and then let loose with whirly hands is a beautiful sound.
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No question about its asthetic appeal. All this is tempting me again BUT, the damage is so derisable, and the aggro is covered by invinc so bottom line am I better off?
I hear what you're saying but just can't make up my mind. Don't forget, I'd have to drop something to get it.
Arrgh.
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Apart from the benefits listed by Shannon, there always a use for a PBAoE when you have that mob you cant target because its stuck in a wall or that Arachnos who smoke grenaded you.
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Well yeah but that's too rare for me to take a power for.
Oh the pain..
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
also it takes stun set IOs so you can slot it with chance to knockdown IO, v useful i think 
@ExtraGonk
Take out whirling hands?! what blasphemy is this 
that power has been my tanks constant companion since i4 it will never go also i already slotted it will Scirocco's dervish +regen +accuracy ftw
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
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Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
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. Id have it though, unlike some pbaoes its useable in the air and so Id be like great! CoP trial! Fly up in the middle of those Rularuu buggers and Whirl!
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CoP trial? Hmmph, Time that comes out your Tanker will be an old and grey bunch of pixles on arthiritis pills.
But it's a cool image...
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
first of all, i disagree with this: [ QUOTE ]
So in the end it's all up to playstyle I think. If you prefer to play more as a Scranker, then I'd take it, but if you prefer being the Meatshield then I'd skip it.
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rather i think the opposite, a scranker wont be surrounded by those big group of mobs that makes this a useful power. While a tanker who gather a big group of enemies tight to him will.
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My Scranker is always surounded by a big group of mobs. Remember, it's still a Tank and not a Scrapper, so I'm still in the thick of it. I just choose to sacrifice some survivability(and perhaps some aggro ability)in favour of more damage. Doesn't mean I don't try to aggro and try to take most of the incoming damage, I'm just not as good at it, compared to a more defensively specialized build. It's kind of a trade off. For example, my Ice tank doesn't have any AoE damage attacks, as he's purely built for survivability and aggro ability.
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first of all, i disagree with this: [ QUOTE ]
So in the end it's all up to playstyle I think. If you prefer to play more as a Scranker, then I'd take it, but if you prefer being the Meatshield then I'd skip it.
[/ QUOTE ]
rather i think the opposite, a scranker wont be surrounded by those big group of mobs that makes this a useful power. While a tanker who gather a big group of enemies tight to him will.
[/ QUOTE ]
My Scranker is always surounded by a big group of mobs. Remember, it's still a Tank and not a Scrapper, so I'm still in the thick of it. I just choose to sacrifice some survivability(and perhaps some aggro ability)in favour of more damage. Doesn't mean I don't try to aggro and try to take most of the incoming damage, I'm just not as good at it, compared to a more defensively specialized build. It's kind of a trade off. For example, my Ice tank doesn't have any AoE damage attacks, as he's purely built for survivability and aggro ability.
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don't sound like a scranker to me..
tanking/scranking isnt what set or powers you have of your primaries or secondaries, but in my mind a playstyle and what purpose your filling in a team.
for some reason there are those who only will accept "true tankers" as those tanks who are built so defensively that they are incapable of soloing and that any tank who has got enough offense to solo must be a scranker..
I call those tanks "tauntbots" or "leechers"..
I wonder what the defender community would say if someone said that any defender that can solo reasonable well is a Offender..
Are the only ATs who are "allowed" to solo without getting called names Scrappers or high level fire/kin trollers?
I solo quite a deal, so any AT i pick gets a build that seems to gravitate towards the ability to at solo Elite bosses by the late 30s..
Noone of them are useless in teams, or are unable to live up to their function..
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
Interesting, my granite is quite maxed on defence (no pool though) but can ditch out tremendous damage due 60% bonus recharge. In team i mostly use taunt, footstomp and fireball, here and there a melee power to keep most things wacking me.
I see scrankers more like having less powers of the shields. A inv with only TI, unyielding and invincibility, no taunt and all attacks. They do not focus on gathering the group, but random (like scrappers) pick mobs one-on-one.
Namecalling is done too easy Blaster with 3 melee (/nrg or /elec) is already a blapper and TA/arch is basicly always a offender.
But namecalling doesnt change your playstyle
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[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
I wonder what the defender community would say if someone said that any defender that can solo reasonable well is a Offender..
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Oh, that would be interesting, indeed. Some would be quite surprised...
I think it's - like Sinergy_X said - more a matter of playstyle. Sure, often enough you can tell by the build if someone is a scranker or a tank - it's only logical if you consider that players usually choose powers that accommodate their playstyle if they're smart. But at level 40-50 it's not always that easy to tell them apart as scrankers will feel the need to fill some holes in their defense sooner or later and tanks might find it handy to be able to dish out some damage, too. But when you team with them you will notice the difference nonetheless as one won't care too much about the aggro others get as long as they have enough foes nearby to do some damage while the other goes out of his way to protect the rest of the team and does damage when he has time and endurance left.
That said Whirling Hands is a nice attack for a 'tanky' tanker as it's damage really adds up given the flock of mobs that should be cuddling with you. Damage-wise and endurance-wise it's better than any single target attack unless there are only one or two mobs left standing. Plus, it reminds the mobs of who they should concentrate on.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
With every toon i make i usually end up quite balanced between primaries and secondaries, the only times i have left that policy is with Masterminds (the primaries are so guuuud i just want them all..) and my nrg/nrg blaster where i have few of my secondaries and stay ranged at all times. For a blaster, i rarely faceplant.
So for me its natural that a tanker as well should have a relative balanced picks of prime and seconds.
And I cant for the life of me see the fact that if whirling hands hits a great number of enemies some of them will become stunned and stagger around and away from the taunt aura that this is a "bad" thing..
For me this isnt a issue.. because either all those mobs that presumably stagger off are destroyed within 5 seconds by any teammates i have, and if the team cant perform to those expectations, those mobs will come running back since theyre still under the influence by my invincibility aura slotted for duration...
if i read Mids hero designer correctly.. if i were to triple slot whirling hands for duration, the taunt from invincibility are still longer unslotted..
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
Exactly. I have to agree that the occasional mob staggering away is basically a non-issue. What good is a team that can't even handle mezzed mobs? Are some people really that dependent on shooting fish in a barrel that one fish jumping out of the barrel onto the floor is a life-threatening danger?
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
you might slip on it in your hurry to shoot the rest of the fish!
@ExtraGonk
You can't slip on a mezzed fish!
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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first of all, i disagree with this: [ QUOTE ]
So in the end it's all up to playstyle I think. If you prefer to play more as a Scranker, then I'd take it, but if you prefer being the Meatshield then I'd skip it.
[/ QUOTE ]
rather i think the opposite, a scranker wont be surrounded by those big group of mobs that makes this a useful power. While a tanker who gather a big group of enemies tight to him will.
[/ QUOTE ]
My Scranker is always surounded by a big group of mobs. Remember, it's still a Tank and not a Scrapper, so I'm still in the thick of it. I just choose to sacrifice some survivability(and perhaps some aggro ability)in favour of more damage. Doesn't mean I don't try to aggro and try to take most of the incoming damage, I'm just not as good at it, compared to a more defensively specialized build. It's kind of a trade off. For example, my Ice tank doesn't have any AoE damage attacks, as he's purely built for survivability and aggro ability.
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don't sound like a scranker to me..
tanking/scranking isnt what set or powers you have of your primaries or secondaries, but in my mind a playstyle and what purpose your filling in a team.
for some reason there are those who only will accept "true tankers" as those tanks who are built so defensively that they are incapable of soloing and that any tank who has got enough offense to solo must be a scranker..
I call those tanks "tauntbots" or "leechers"..
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I guess it all depends on your point of view, like everything in life .
I also build my Tanks to have at least some balance between offense and defense, but the one Tank leans more heavily towards defense and the other more heavily to offense. I don't go to the extreme though. You won't find me six slotting stuff like Barrage or Energy Punch and I do feel I should at least be able to take an alpha strike, to be of any use to a team.
also, soloing on a tank?? I would prefer to do something a little more fun with my time 
A taunt bot doesnt mean leecher. Sometimes the very fact that no one else is getting hit or constantly dying/held etc means the team is doing better. In the lower levels Tankers focusing on their primaries and taunting away perhaps more than necessary show me their intent and I find it sweet.
A leecher does nothing in terms of support.
Armours. The more you need the less challenging the game becomes. Not just for yourself but those around you and not every solution comes down to "more meat please". Survivability though can come from playstyle, support or even concept, a challenging mission simply "gone about differently" can become less soul destroying, allowing more reason to say why not be offensive. Sometimes the formula to survival better requires positioning and timing or the use of a secondary effect and sometimes its simply from defeating the enemies to damn fast for them to stand a chance!
Some teams need a Tanker to just take the alpha, some need Tankers to prevent anyone from being too overwhelmed and some dont need a Tanker at all. Some of those teams that need the Tanker to take the alpha have players with powers that can remove the alpha. Some teams that need the Tankers to prevent them from being overwhelmed could play more carefully/technically and those teams that dont need a Tanker perhaps are removing the alphas and playing more technically or carefully are a nice release with which I can go get my scrapper (although a successful all def/control team could actually be a bunch of mindless keymashers). Most mixed teams that i have seen are better off with than without cos safely stacked AoEs are greater than anything.
Like anyone else I like to play toons that are conceptually pleasing. Things simply should come down to playing what ya fancy and doing what it is the character does, what you expect of it and played the way you like to play it, for it is usually only you in the team that knows you cant invuln tank your way around malta like your ice can.
On the real life battlefield the Tank stands out like a sore thumb in comparison to the infantry and draws the majority of fire. At sea, the Tankers can be seen bringing what people want from port to port. In CoH the Tanker has the ability to do both at the same time better than anyother AT. In each case I advise no one to be up their backsides.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
A tank is someone who can hold aggro and cares about team survivability
A scranker is someone who only cares about his own survivability
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A tank is someone who can hold aggro and cares about team survivability
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A scranker is someone who only cares about his own survivability
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There's an inbetween sort as well , you know. What are they then? *ankers?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
What should be in between? Someone who can't hold aggro but still cares about team survivability? Well, I would call that a bad tank.
But seriously, there are certainly several shades of grey. Names don't matter to me much, but if I absolutely had to decide I would judge by the order of his priorities. Yes, this means that with many builds (e.g. a well-rounded fire tanker) last missions scranker could be next missions tank.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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What should be in between? Someone who can't hold aggro but still cares about team survivability? Well, I would call that a bad tank.
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There are many players, particularily invul types, who picked the set, not so much because they want to Tank the CoH way, but because they want to emulate Superman or another suchlike hero.
That probably involves going one to one as well as protecting your team mates.
They're never going to be the model Tank.
But they're probably not Skrankers as such either.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
My Invul/ energy melee.. Tanker.
I dropped whirling hands a while ago. I liked the power but decided it was ultimately useless. It's damage is weak and any aggro I can get from guantlet, Taunt and my invinc AOEs cover anyway.
I kind of miss the ability to hit more than one at a time but felt, in view of my reasoning above, it's just not worth while.
Am I right or wrong?
Thx
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...