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But my issue is that aid self is a pool power. Pool powers shouldn`t be decisive like that because, as with the case of the SR scrapper (maybe myself if I`m honest) you feel you have to take it to keep up. And I don`t think pool powers should do that.
[/ QUOTE ]Hasten? Stamina? Tactics (vs. stealth users)?
I don't see how aid self is any different.
You can argue the same about any of the power pools though. Stamina, Acrobatics, Hasten, ALL give weighty advantages to your opponent. You just need to come up with effective tactics to counter their advantage.
EDIT: Grrr MaX! 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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So duelling a brute with Healing Flames is fine but if a dominator has Aid Self, it's unfair??? Don't get it... 
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Healing flames isn`t a pool power.
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Yes, I'm actually aware of that, thanks, but I can't see the logic in saying that AT specific self heals are acceptable, but not one available to all ATs (with several limitations that have already been pointed out). Power Pools are meant to give you powers which you can't get in your primary/secondary, so why not a self-heal? As others have said, there are many ways to counter it in PvP if you take the time to learn and it's certainly not an "I WIN" button...
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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I would suggest that in PvP zones (including the Arena) everyones skills except Brawl are disabled and everyones health is set to the same amount. That should ensure that it's all properly balanced and give nobody reason to complain 
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And was that your constructive addition to this debate?
I`m not talking about balance actually. I know the game can never be fully balanced.
On a personal level I don`t like Aid self because it doesn`t generally fit the super hero theme. In Pvp I don`t like it because the bearer of it seems to have a massive advantage against someoner who doesnt have it.
If my Tanker manages to bypass all your defences and downs you, that`s great. If you manage to bypass my invulnerability and down me thats more power to you.
But if one of us can endlessly throw up aid self every minute or so... not really a great achievement winning that fight then is there?
Of course, if we both have aid self, then we`re on an equal footing.
But is there any other pool power that gives the player so distinct an advantage in PvP?
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You made quite a good job of explaining my point to yourself here (I've highlighted the most relevant bits).
I understand how you feel about Aid Self, and of course your point of view is perfectly valid. However, as others have said, it does come with drawbacks, which are part of that imperfect balance you talk of.
If the drawbacks are enough to offset the advantages or not is not relevant here - indeed, your own view on this doesn't seem to be too clear (or too clearly presented, anyway). On one hand, you say it's overpowered. On the other hand, you won't take it yourself, because you feel it doesn't fit your concept (which is a very real drawback I can relate to very well, being not a PvP oriented player myself). But: the choice not to take it is still yours.
Basically, the gist of what I was trying to say somewhat sarcastically (but probably none too clearly) is "If it weren't Aid Self, it would be something else. There's always something."
Aid Self is part of the PvP metagame, and exactly because it is available to everyone regardless of AT and power choices, I feel that you choosing not to take it and then complaining about it being overpowered is somewhat illogical.
Maybe another, more useful way to put your complaint would be "Aid Self makes PvP boring, because it allows anyone to drag out a fight for way too long."
umm, just like too say that I was the lvl 40 brute in RV earlier today and i dont have aid self. I was using healing flames 
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You can argue the same about any of the power pools though. Stamina, Acrobatics, Hasten, ALL give weighty advantages to your opponent. You just need to come up with effective tactics to counter their advantage.
EDIT: Grrr MaX!
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The funny thing here is that all I have have to do to level the playing field is run aid self myself. So it`s not like i`m fussing about the haves and the have nots.
To be truthful, one of my problems is I`m a pre I5 invul Tanker. Since then we`ve given up so much in the way of being conceptually accurate (i now dodge bullets as well as let em bounce off thanks to defence.) that it would grate to have to be even more anti thematic by pressing a little remote control.
It`s bad enough that we have to use tough to keep our S/l up but at least that keeps in the theme of being " invulnerable" if only against S/L damage.
The more in theme the game is the better I think we all like it.
Anyway, I never said that aid self in PvP was wrong, just that I personally think it`s wrong. Or, digging deeper, maybe it`s just wrong for certain melee sets. For instance, the blaster who mentioned he would be screwed without it has a valid point too.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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If you`re a healer and you can endlessly heal yourself...well the trade off there is that you`re unlikely to hit hard enough to rteally put me out.
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Don't ever go up against a triform PB; seriously. You think aid self is annoying? How about shields, 3 heals, a self rez, built in stamina in Nova form; tank form, rather high knockdowm AND fairly good damage?
And to top it all, if things get hairy we also have Light Form (Unstoppable to you tankers).
Not that I'm saying they're PvP gods, they're not. But played right they can be a REALLY irritating opponent.
Oh, and a high level WS is even WORSE!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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umm, just like too say that I was the lvl 40 brute in RV earlier today and i dont have aid self. I was using healing flames
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LOL 
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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umm, just like too say that I was the lvl 40 brute in RV earlier today and i dont have aid self. I was using healing flames
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EEEppp. You`re kidding. Flames never wore me out like that before. How many weetabix you eat today?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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But, aid self just seems to give my opponent an advantage that strikes me as unfair.
[/ QUOTE ]This is a pool power that you have to sacrifice another power for, so they person who takes the medicine pool set is being disadvantaged if anything.
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Actually, you have to sacrifice two power picks, one of which has to go on Aid Other or Stimulant, neither of which is particularly handy in 1v1 PvP.
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umm, just like too say that I was the lvl 40 brute in RV earlier today and i dont have aid self. I was using healing flames
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EEEppp. You`re kidding. Flames never wore me out like that before. How many weetabix you eat today?
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Flames has an insanely fast recharge these days. Espcially when slotted.
fire/ tanks and /fire brutes ftw
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Don't ever go up against a triform PB; seriously. You think aid self is annoying? How about shields, 3 heals, a self rez, built in stamina in Nova form; tank form, rather high knockdowm AND fairly good damage?
And to top it all, if things get hairy we also have Light Form (Unstoppable to you tankers).
Not that I'm saying they're PvP gods, they're not. But played right they can be a REALLY irritating opponent.
Oh, and a high level WS is even WORSE!
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Pah! Bring it on i say. Long as you dont have aid self and now it seems Healing flames. Which I am astonished at. I fought several brutes with H/F and they were 50s. They werent easy but they bit dirt.
This guy was a 40 and I just could not deliver the killer punch before he could reheal. The only times I ever had that problem before was aid self.
Maybe it was just a bad day at the office.
At least I can console my self by saying that flaming is not a pool power.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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The more in theme the game is the better I think we all like it.
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That's not really what you're saying. You're surely saying the game should be in *your* theme?
Thematically I have a bunch of characters that in background context all started out normal but for the sort of situtations and chance events that only life in somewhere like Paragon could grant .
I have scientist characters, and inventor characters amonsgt them. They LOVE aid self thematically. Just because it doesn't suit your theme doesn't mean it isn't right on the money for someone else.
Gameplay and context, I love Aid Self. It's not an I WIN button by any means at all and there's plenty of occasions it's of no use at all and here's plenty of counters to it in PvP .
But it's certainly valueable and valued addition .
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umm, just like too say that I was the lvl 40 brute in RV earlier today and i dont have aid self. I was using healing flames
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Remind me to avoid you in PvP.
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Pah! Bring it on i say. Long as you dont have aid self and now it seems Healing flames. Which I am astonished at. I fought several brutes with H/F and they were 50s. They werent easy but they bit dirt.
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Didn't you notice the 3 self heals I mentioned? One of which also boosts my HP?
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
My character thematically loves Aid self cause its a Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance
sorry to say it but.. My troller is build to wear out a tank ^^... grav/storm!! I just slow and pop my big fluffy pet out of the sky to drain end... and if ppl want unstop...I just wait for it to wear of :-\
And yeah I cant live without aid self these days its just a power... If we keep this up we are gonna whine about holds and debuffs and stuff...
But I can understand your point ^^
If you can't beat someone that has aid self, what chance do you have against a kinetic? (Even a non end draining one).
Imo get a power that stuns.
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My character thematically loves Aid self cause its a Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance
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Quotin' for effect.
The only issue I have with Aid Self is that it's pretty much uninteruptable now with the right slotting.
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My character thematically loves Aid self cause its a Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance
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Quotin' for effect.
The only issue I have with Aid Self is that it's pretty much uninteruptable now with the right slotting.
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I would very much like to know the slotting that neutralizes snow storm
No it's not overpowered, my blaster can easily do more damage in the activation time of aid self than aid self actually heals.
Tanks aren't designed to kill things, they're designed to take the aggro so that others can kill things, simple solution to your problem? Get taunt and team with a blaster.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
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Tanks aren't designed to kill things, they're designed to take the aggro so that others can kill things, simple solution to your problem? Get taunt and team with a blaster.
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Really? So tanks lost their secondary now then?
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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I`m clearly superior a lot of the time, easily winning the actual fight but they just keep popping aid self and eventually i run out of steam.
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so you are not clearly superior and are actually losing, adapt and rebuild your character, essentially perma enurance is easily available.
either that or just ask your opponant to stand there while you beat up on them....
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