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sexually explicity comments on broadcast
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For real?
I would have expected that to come with quite a heavy penalty.
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When you ask the person in question on broadcast what happened to his old account he goes very quiet and leaves, one would presume hes trying to avoid a "paper trail" linking current behavior to the past.
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Is he that bright?
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Yeah, I heard he was a Doctor or something.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Yeah, I heard he was a Doctor or something.
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He is 16 years old so i doubt it.
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I have a couple of questions for you/your company regarding abuse/harassment policy (largely unrelated to the initial post).
For about three or four months myself and a member of my SG have been getting a torrent of abuse, swearing, sexually explicit tells, sexually explicity comments on broadcast, and general nastyness from someone, over and above the usual swearing and childish comments that we get in PvP zones.
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I'm afraid that I'm not able to discuss the specifics of a case like this in public. If you have a complaint about our Customer Support, you should make it to our Customer Support team by updating the relevant ticket/petition or submitting a new one. If, following this, you remain unsatisfied with the response, please feel free to email me with the ticket details and I'll look into it.
I'll try to address some of your more general questions here.
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1. Do you think it's right that it's taken 4 months and several petitions plus chasing up petitions to make sure they actually get read, from both of us, for this to stop (at least temporarily - I don't know if it is him that's been banned, but he's at least gone quiet for a little while), yet if I posted his name or screenshots on the forums it would be instantly deleted and I'd be told off like a naughty child for breaking the forum rules? Can you see how this would be incredibly frustrating?
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Of course I don't think it's right for something like you describe to take four months to resolve. On the other hand, I don't know the details of the actual situation, so I can't really comment on the specific case you're describing.
I can say with absolute certainty that you should never have to 'chase up' a /petition to ensure that it's read. All /petitions are investigated. Sometimes this can be a time consuming process, depending on the exact situation, but a /petition is never ignored.
On the subject of the board rules and my moderation, I try my best to treat all board members with courtesy and respect at all times. If my enforcing of those rules comes across as being "told off like a naughty child", then I'm clearly failing in this regard and would greatly appreciate you emailing me to discuss how I can phrase things more appropriately.
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2. Given that everyone knows (or thinks they know) what a complete joke the ingame rules on behaviour standards are, and how rarely and weakly they're enforced, are you surprised at the standard of behaviour ingame?
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I think the critical thing here is "thinks they know". I can assure you that we don't regard the rules governing behaviour in-game as a joke. On the contrary, we take them very seriously and deal with any reported problems accordingly.
As to whether I'm surprised by the standard of behaviour in-game, I can't say I am, for the simple reason that I very rarely encounter any problems in this regard when playing my personal characters.
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3. Do you think that a certain amount of abuse, swearing, and comments of a sexual nature are acceptable in a PvP zone?
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No, I don't. On the other hand, I don't expect someone to be permanently banned from the game for a single infraction of the rules, and I'm more than happy to /ignore anyone that is bothering me, after having /petitioned them.
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Due to PvP being consensual in CoH there's really no ingame remedy for this sort of problem. Either the game has a policy on this sort of thing, or it doesn't. What's the point in it being there if it's not being enforced/being seen to be enforced? Where is the deterrant for those people who want to act like this?
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The game does have a policy. It's clearly stated in the EULA and accompanying Code of Conduct. Every single violation of that policy that is reported to our GMs via /petition is thoroughly investigated and any appropriate action taken.
On the subject of 'being seen to be enforced', though, I'm afraid that we have no interest in publicly humiliating players who violate the rules. Our entire system is geared towards ensuring that our players can enjoy the games free from unpleasant behaviour by others. That's what's important to us, not 'public enforcement'.
One thing that I've mentioned before but cannot be stressed enough is that you should always /petition each and every violation of the rules that causes you concern. Regardless of whether you've /petitioned the same character before, or whether other people tell you they've already /petitioned.
If someone sends you an abusive /tell, you should /petition. If the same person sends you another abusive /tell half an hour later, you should /petition. If they do the same thing a week later, you should /petition. Each and every time, /petition.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that, if the player wasn't suspended or banned for the first offence, nothing will be done about further violations - or that our GMs will automatically 'know' about further violations made by the same player.
Unless the case is particularly extreme, it's very unlikely that a player will be banned for a single incident (although it has happened occasionally). In general, a first violation of the rules will result in a warning. If our GMs don't receive any further reports about the same player breaking the rules, they can only assume that the warning has been effective. If it hasn't, you need to /petition to let the know, so they can take the appropriate steps.
Thanks for the reply.
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As to whether I'm surprised by the standard of behaviour in-game, I can't say I am, for the simple reason that I very rarely encounter any problems in this regard when playing my personal characters.
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At the risk of being rude, I'd guess from some of your casual comments about PvP in the past that you probably do not get the sort of k/d ratios that a couple of our regular two character teams do. I have this stubborn refusal to stand still get stunned and die, well, except when very drunk or hungover, and it really annoys people quite a lot as that's essentially what my AT is meant to do in zone PvP as far as I've worked out.
I think I've probably done this to death for today. I do disagree with the policy, but can do nothing about it. I don't think it will change, but I will keep criticising it while I see it not working. I don't think I can make my point without posting links to the forums of screenshots which break the forum rules. I might drop you a PM tomorrow if you don't mind.
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When you ask the person in question on broadcast what happened to his old account he goes very quiet and leaves, one would presume hes trying to avoid a "paper trail" linking current behavior to the past.
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Is he that bright?
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well in those terms I would say not, regardless asking about his old account certainly puts him ill at ease. A couple of times I was just sat there churning out petitions as hes abusing various people in SC and told one of the people to ask him about his old account and hey presto, all goes quiet.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I got ranted at and called a *beep beep beep!* for taking a pill box in Rv the other day. Of course I was meant to have read the mind of the cocky corr that was supposedly going to take out the Av's by himself. Not the first time I've been cussed at and I'm sure it wont be the last.
One thing that irks me sometimes is the *fight clubs* that spring up, especially in sirens. I admit I've *duelled* people there as well but it really kills the zone atmosphere when people just stand around there for hours and get really outraged if you attack them.
I'll usually let a pair do what they want but if it goes on for too long I'm going to interefere.. Why? Because it's much more fun with everyone zipping around! It's NOT harassment, it's a zone for heavens sake.
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CoH doesn't have this. It also has one of the lowest standards of behaviour overall I've ever seen in a game, and I play, in addition to MMOs, a variety of FPS and flight sim games. I have to put this down to a combination of idiot plus anonymity of the internet plus the knowledge there will probably be no come back.
Killing them is not a deterrant, although it's entertaining obviously, that's generally what seems to generate abuse in the first place. 
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While I would agree that in game people can sometimes get away with a lot, which in other games might be pegged as griefing and either other players would gang up to sort it (ala South Park's WoW episode style) or the mods would, I'm still thankful that I've never been followed through an entire zone by some twit spamming the spit emote as I refused to fight his toon that was more than ten levels higher than mine...
Also one thing that REALLY bugs me about WoW is those blasted tells you get advertising powerleveling sites!!! ARGH! Can't log in even for 5 minutes without getting one! And they seem to use a newly made toon each day, with a gobbledy-[censored] name, so you can't even stick the ...s (not going to put in the words I'd use) on ignore. ARGH!! 
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
I think the critical thing here is "thinks they know". I can assure you that we don't regard the rules governing behaviour in-game as a joke. On the contrary, we take them very seriously and deal with any reported problems accordingly.
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*COUGH* *COUGH*
A small part of the people I've killed in a PvP zone used insults (I'd say easily 100-150 different characters), including derogatory comments because I'm a woman.
I'll admit out of those I didn't bother to /petition more than ten times or so, for those who just wouldn't shut up and keep yelling. But even those people, none of them ever got a 3-day ban or any kind of punishment that I can see. I see those guys in PvP zones, still insulting. I see those guys here on the boards, as "respected members of the community", and they insult even here (although they don't dare to say publicly the stuff they say in-game), yet not much - like a post moderated here and there - is done.
Maybe it's only a Vigilance problem. All I know is being called a who**, a bit** (I don't want to bypass the filter, it's just to show the kind of insults I'm getting) and being told to bend over half of the time if I go into a pvp zone and start killing people spoils MY fun, enough that I turn broadcast off everytime I step into a pvp zone. It says something about the (lack of) in-game moderation when people think an in-game action (like killing someone in a PVP zone) is wrong and insults are not.
I'm not saying it's that big of a deal ; the /ignore command works wonderfully. However, I can't help but chuckle when I read "deal with any reported problems accordingly". Giving some random badge to someone who didn't get it doing something has to be more important than sexist comments and insults. 
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In more "persistant" online games you have a certain level to which you have to answer for your actions and the actions of those you associate with - CoH doesn't have this.
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I'm afraid I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Could you be a little more specific?
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It also has one of the lowest standards of behaviour overall I've ever seen in a game, and I play, in addition to MMOs, a variety of FPS and flight sim games. I have to put this down to a combination of idiot plus anonymity of the internet plus the knowledge there will probably be no come back.
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Honestly, our gaming experiences must differ a great deal. Perhaps, as you suggest, this is because I'm not a dedicated PvP player, and only tend to pop into the zones every now and then.
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I do disagree with the policy, but can do nothing about it.
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I'm afraid I'm still not clear on which policy you disagree with?
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I might drop you a PM tomorrow if you don't mind.
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As I mentioned before, please do (although you'll need to email me - address below).
This I can agree with. People are very nice out of PVP zones.
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This I can agree with. People are very nice out of PVP zones.
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Mostly, I've come across a few I'd rather never meet again...
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Mostly, I've come across a few I'd rather never meet again...
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sad but true.. Most I meet are pretty nice people and I dont currently have anyone on my global ignore. Rarely If I hook a real cheeseball I'll ignore them for an hour or two until they cool off and move on.
I really cant stand when you get someone in pvp that starts a constant stream of illiterate abuse, cussing at you for just about everything... your pvp technique, your build, your cossie... 
"Hi, did I perhaps run over your dog this morning before taking a dump in your cereal??"
Regarding persistancy, I guess what I really mean is there's no real sense of consequences to your actions because PvP is limited to certain areas. I'm not suggesting I think this should be changed, just observing that in a game where if you make a complete plonker out of yourself someone can (and probably will) make your whole gaming life quite difficult, people might think twice (or hell, even once) before opening their trap.
As to what part of the policy I disagree with, I disagree with how obviously lenient it is (if it wasn't, people wouldn't need to be petitioned multiple times for the same thing, and yet still be found acting in the same way). I also think I disagree with how quiet you keep what is done about it. I don't view it as humiliating people to say they've been banned, I view the behaviour that would get them the ban in the first place as far more humiliating.
I guess I just think there's something fundamentally broken about how things work at the moment, because, as you say, my game experience is somewhat different from yours. I have to think it's at least partly your responsibility (your company, not you personally) to manage these issues to a degree, and you're not, so I have to think something is broken.
I also think the reason I find it so damn irritating is the forum v ingame content comparison.
I'm aware that's a bit vague.
Edited to add: I also think we've probably done this one to death for now - can't see this going anywhere.
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3. Do you think that a certain amount of abuse, swearing, and comments of a sexual nature are acceptable in a PvP zone?
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It saddens me to see that some people can't except defeat 
The other day I was put on someones /ignore list (Me!? Of all people! ) because that someone was teasing me (how that works I don't know 
). An argument then started (which I didn't start FYI) and we ended up rowing on broadcast all because that one person couldn't believe I was playing my Stalker in a "Sneak 'n' Stike" fashion. And like all Stalkers (who aren't EM) if an AS missess... I run! Eventually said person couldn't take anymore of my, and I quote, "BS" (Broadsword? Funny... I am a Claws Stalker 
) and thus I was ingnored. But IMO I should've done the ignoring but I am not one to stoop down to said person's level.
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
I've not seen anyone being really abusive recently. Did have an amusing battle in Siren's the other week though. My band of merry heroes (two SG mates) and I attacked a villain about to have a dual. I think he called some friends as the amount of villains increased lol.
"01-06-2007 03:49:36 [Team]Devilshot: <color #010101>I reckon Nimmer is a the biggest nimmer in paragon
01-06-2007 03:49:38 [Team]Seriphimus: <color #010101>gettin hazel then
01-06-2007 03:49:43 [Team]Globey: <color #010101>Thats a lie! I AM THE BIGGEST NIMMER! I am in love with Bridger, and i'm rubbish at pvp.
01-06-2007 03:50:02 [Team]Entrancer: <color #010101>:O
01-06-2007 03:50:13 [Team]Knight Stalker: <color #010101>If you are that bad Globey, please stop calling my mum."
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Keep chat logs is done by simply turning on an option within the game settings.
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lol Chat logs can be edited in Notepad, not very reliable.
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Whaat? IIRC I thought chat logs were set in stone!
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I also think I disagree with how quiet you keep what is done about it.
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Yes i must admit iv never quite understood that bit either.
Im not suggesting having them announced in a pop up screen as everyone logs on, however i think being told that the person you felt the need to complain about has been dealt with in X or Y fashion, at least lets you know something has at least been done.
Just my opinion that lot of course.
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I also think I disagree with how quiet you keep what is done about it.
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Yes i must admit iv never quite understood that bit either.
Im not suggesting having them announced in a pop up screen as everyone logs on, however i think being told that the person you felt the need to complain about has been dealt with in X or Y fashion, at least lets you know something has at least been done.
Just my opinion that lot of course.
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There are several reasons for this, but the main ones are privacy related (we don't discuss the details of your account with anyone other than you - and that includes disciplinary actions) and that, in our experience of other games, disclosing these details to the player making the complaint has an unfortunate tendency to lead to further unpleasant behaviour ("Hahahah! I got you suspended, noob!", etc).
I believe that most other MMOs have similar policies, no doubt for similar reasons.
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There are several reasons for this, but the main ones are privacy related (we don't discuss the details of your account with anyone other than you - and that includes disciplinary actions) and that, in our experience of other games, disclosing these details to the player making the complaint has an unfortunate tendency to lead to further unpleasant behaviour ("Hahahah! I got you suspended, noob!", etc).
I believe that most other MMOs have similar policies, no doubt for similar reasons.
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Yep ok , thats a good reason.
One thing I really don't understand guys, and I really-really mean it.
If someone tells something which is rude in your opinion, why does it bother you?
I mean, let's say GenericHero00123 tells me that he thinks my momma sells her body every night at the truck parking lot.
There are 2 possibilities:
- GenericHero00123 speaks truth
- GenericHero00123 doesn't speak truth
So...what then? Who cares? IMO if you can be abused verbally, that is your weakness. Face it.
Letting yourself get hurt means giving power to the abuser.
If someone is angry, that is his/her problem. Not yours. Why bother yourself?
Try to grow up, build self-confidence, be wise, and stop calling daddy ("/petition") all the time.
And don't let anyone ruin your fun.
(or, you can hate me for my opinion - it's a free world)
(Note: no, I never say bad things to people, and I would _never_ give an advice to do so. I am in Paragon to have fun, and I like having friends. Actually, if I get defeated in Pvp, I tend to gratulate my defeater (saying: "Nice one" can be amazingly calming for both))
Brush
Putting the blame for an abuse situation on the shoulders of the person receiving the abuse rather than the person doing the abuse generally doesn't receive a good reaction on the boards (or in life in general). Not everyone is supremely self-confident and is able to shrug these things off nor should the abuser be given permission to continue abusing people through inaction on the part of those who have been abused. Everyone is well within their rights to petition someone else if they feel they have been abused - if no such abuse took place than the GM's will take no action. If abuse did take place then action can be taken to resolve the issue. Telling people to grow up and not report abuse will only lead to more abuse occurring.
In my opinion.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
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One thing I really don't understand guys, and I really-really mean it.
If someone tells something which is rude in your opinion, why does it bother you?
I mean, let's say GenericHero00123 tells me that he thinks my momma sells her body every night at the truck parking lot.
There are 2 possibilities:
- GenericHero00123 speaks truth
- GenericHero00123 doesn't speak truth
So...what then? Who cares? IMO if you can be abused verbally, that is your weakness. Face it.
Letting yourself get hurt means giving power to the abuser.
If someone is angry, that is his/her problem. Not yours. Why bother yourself?
Try to grow up, build self-confidence, be wise, and stop calling daddy ("/petition") all the time.
And don't let anyone ruin your fun.
(or, you can hate me for my opinion - it's a free world)
(Note: no, I never say bad things to people, and I would _never_ give an advice to do so. I am in Paragon to have fun, and I like having friends. Actually, if I get defeated in Pvp, I tend to gratulate my defeater (saying: "Nice one" can be amazingly calming for both))
Brush
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While I agree that certain personal resilience is a healthy thing to have, ultimately we should also agree to a certain lvl of behaviour so we'd all have more fun. Thats what the COH/COV code of conduct is for. If we don't it would be same as saying everyone can say what they want, making the enviroment completely antisocial and repulsive. I doubt anyone would like to wallow in [censored] constantly.
As I see, petitioning won't stop the abuser do their thing.
Getting no reaction (/ignore?) to any verbal abuse will leave abusing pointless tho.
Everyone who's shouting are in need of getting attention. Don't give them this pleasure.
Or, lets say you are kind to everyone?
Example:
- Hey, you f*** b******, you are one hell of a s***** n00b, you can't even **** the **** ******.
- Nice cossie, man.
- ....?
Most people think they can teach good manners by getting down to the abusers level. I think that you make your own feelings for yourself. You are the responsible if you feel bad (please don't say exaples from RL about bad accidents, deaths and stuff, because that is a different story of course).
I just wanted to show a technique to keep yourself happy in CoX regardless of anyone who are there to ruin your fun.
If you think it does not suit you - I don't mind, you make your decisions. I am happy with any behaviour you choose (even abusers are welcome to team me, we are all humans dammit ).
But keep in mind that revenge have never solved anything. And /petition is one form of it (imo, at least).
I know it is far easier to point to Bridger and the support team and say they can not handle verbal abusement properly than decide you won't allow anyone to abuse you anymore.
Well, we pay for support anyways, make them work for it?
That is a point too, I must agree.
Brush
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When you ask the person in question on broadcast what happened to his old account he goes very quiet and leaves, one would presume hes trying to avoid a "paper trail" linking current behavior to the past.
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Is he that bright?