Is a Tanker a Tanker if he/she doesn't have Taunt?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
personally i want taunt to be able to affect more people as atm it's pathetic and an increase the cap of number of enemies affected by taunt auras /end rant
[/ QUOTE ]
The taunt cap is in place to stop herding. A good thing if you ask me.
[/ QUOTE ]
yes i understand what your getting at here but taunt being limited to 5 enemies is insane the average mob size on an 8 man team ranges from 10-15+ depending on difficulty setting the taunt aura will maintain a minor aggro on the stragglers a minimal increase in the taunt cap is all i'm asking
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
I've got an ice/energy tank, and while I do have taunt, I've not always had to use it. It depends on the situation. With ice and it's taunt aura, just jumping into the mob generally keeps everyone there. If one or two start running after someone else, then I'll pull taunt to bring 'em back.
To OP, try whatever you want. If it doesn't work out, that's what resepcs are for =)
best answer,short answer, to this topic is: NO 
Menu -> Personal info -> ArchType: Tanker.
Eeeh, wrong 
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Glad to see the immortal debate and thread continues.
More circular arguments please.
There is a very special problem with discussions like this one. There is no distinct line where you can say wether a tanker is a tank or not. Let's just look at the extremes: One tanker takes armours, taunt auras, taunt and powers from the presence pool and has some nice AoE attacks/control in his secondary pool.
I think nobody would doubt that this tanker - if he is played like the build suggests - is most definitely a tank. However, not everybody would agree (including me) that this is the 'best' way to build a tanker since this toon would probably need only a part of his available aggro control powers to reach the aggro cap and the rest could have been used for survivability, damage etc. Although I appreciate the effort I could dream of a better addition to the team.
The other extreme would be a tanker with no aggro control other than his inherent gauntlet for his single target attack secondary, something like an Invul/EM who skipped Invincibility, Whirling Hands and Taunt in order to make room for the fighting pool (or even more attacks like Flurry and Jump Kick). Most would agree that this toon is a tank no more, but for other people it's a tank as soon as it's sturdy enough to take the alpha. I really don't know why I would want something like this in my team.
So, it's only natural that it gets more and more complicated for anything in between. It's all about where you personally draw the line.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
This arguement is as old as the game itself and will go on until
A. Players will refuse to team with someone that doesn't fit the bill of what a tanker is(which is unlikely)
B. somehow somewhere sometime mabye in i77 they made taunt an inherent power for the tank AT(also very unlikely)
so what do we do? same thing we do with every AT we make the best build that matches our playstyle others may disagree and say X is better than Y but it's like beating a dead horse really.
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
In normal mob encounters, taunt isnt necessary as a tanker can just run zigzag/herd thru the spawn and hit every mob with his tauntaura anyways..
Against AVs the tankers positioning (away from the rest of the team) are more important than simply taunting the AV since the AV very likely either have a footstomp AoE, a cone attack, or ignores/resists the taunt for 3 secs so that it can randomly kill of the blaster standing way over there in the back..
definition of a tanker is the toon who is first in, last out. Taunt or not, sometimes the tanker can even be a scrapper...
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
I'm workin on an Inv/EM tanker atm and have taunt, but im gonna slot it out after i hit 50 and have done all the TFs and trials simply cos i have a bad feeling that at some point ill get into a group for one of these and if i dont have taunt they would kick me:P I pretty much figure after i have done all of these i can get rid of taunt and focus more on a dueling tanker. If im wanted in groups after i get rid of taunt im sure a combination of guantlet from my attacks and invincibility taunt aura will be more than enuff to keep aggro (PS i wont have whirling hands either). Alos i think when fighting AVs which is when a tanker is needed most, u dont need taunt as guantlet will be kicking in as you will be attacking the AV and with ur taunt aura u should have the enemy constantly taunted. In a situation of large mobs, most teams can take them out without you even needing to use taunt and just by moving through the groups to get the alpha strike and initial aggro then after killing one boss after another you probably would have done a gd job of holding aggro, keeping your team alive and finishing the mission. Taunt is a useful tool, but unlike everyother game out there, it isnt necessary for a tank.
This is part of a wider problem I have.
PvP Builds are, by and large, deadweight for a dedicated PvE team.
The problem is that PvP builds need xp to level up, and often end up "piggybacking" on a PvE team who are nice enough to allow deadweight (at the expence of their own risk and xp gain).
[ QUOTE ]
I'm workin on an Inv/EM tanker atm and have taunt, but im gonna slot it out after i hit 50 and have done all the TFs and trials simply cos i have a bad feeling that at some point ill get into a group for one of these and if i dont have taunt they would kick me:P I pretty much figure after i have done all of these i can get rid of taunt and focus more on a dueling tanker. If im wanted in groups after i get rid of taunt im sure a combination of guantlet from my attacks and invincibility taunt aura will be more than enuff to keep aggro (PS i wont have whirling hands either). Alos i think when fighting AVs which is when a tanker is needed most, u dont need taunt as guantlet will be kicking in as you will be attacking the AV and with ur taunt aura u should have the enemy constantly taunted. In a situation of large mobs, most teams can take them out without you even needing to use taunt and just by moving through the groups to get the alpha strike and initial aggro then after killing one boss after another you probably would have done a gd job of holding aggro, keeping your team alive and finishing the mission. Taunt is a useful tool, but unlike everyother game out there, it isnt necessary for a tank.
[/ QUOTE ]
No taunt necessary for an AV? what planet are you from m8 gauntlet is rubbish without taunt and AV's will break from gauntlet the second a blaster opens with a barrage of attacks and his face quickly introduced the dirt but answer me this would you team with a tanker on the STF that didn't have taunt?
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
Im afraid I wouldnt. Success is so "in the balance" in a STF that a tauntless tank is a liability a team cant afford.
I would possibly accept a tank with taunt if there was no other tank around (or there was allready a tank with taunt) and the rest of the team was largely, or completely, STF built, but only with tredidation.
Sorry, IMO, taunt is a requisite for STF, and good luck to you trying to get into a team without it.
Agreed on taunt for STF, even then it can be a hard time keeping him 100% aggro'ed to the tanker.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
Im afraid I wouldnt. Success is so "in the balance" in a STF that a tauntless tank is a liability a team cant afford.
I would possibly accept a tank with taunt if there was no other tank around (or there was allready a tank with taunt) and the rest of the team was largely, or completely, STF built, but only with tredidation.
Sorry, IMO, taunt is a requisite for STF, and good luck to you trying to get into a team without it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Id rather a tankless team without it or people using the reverse kite formation about AVs.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Thank you Cognito, Sinergy and Shannon you have proven my point There are no if's ands or buts about taking taunt in my mind it is there to 'help' your team thats the tanks job use it to it's fullest.
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
[ QUOTE ]
No taunt necessary for an AV? what planet are you from m8 gauntlet is rubbish without taunt and AV's will break from gauntlet the second a blaster opens with a barrage of attacks and his face quickly introduced the dirt but answer me this would you team with a tanker on the STF that didn't have taunt?
[/ QUOTE ]AV's in general and +4 AV's are two quite different kettles of fish.
The scale of damage increases only slightly per level and in some cases a 52 Infernal can be worse than a 54 Black Scorpion if ya get my drift all depending on team. Taunt not only serves as a means to taunt far away at speed, reduce herding times, or as a means to not need to unmess a perfectly debuffed group, but to keep areas of damage as far from team as necessary whilst also lowering dps upon ones tank as well.
An AV that one might find worth kiting would be a 52 Infernal particularly cos of his cone and pbaoe which can stack and easily teamwipe but AVs like Siege or Tyrant who both have whirling hands (worst pbaoes going) which aint upto much then kiting may be only of real benefit if someone else in team is somit like -2 to -3vls or more. I know Id much rather have live blappers giving it some than dead blappers with me giving it some.
Melee damage from blasters tends to be 30% greater than ranged and either way more than what our tanks tend to do. A tauntless granite tank surrounded by 6 blappers fighting an AV with just a stormie would be a no no whereas a kiting granite tank with 6 blasters and a stormie should normally easily have a thumbs up.
Amazes me 2 years in that so many people havent seen a kite and so many people who may of got to see someone try for one saw it get messed. After a messed version on say Babbage ofc the run in and gank method will be successful as the Pbaoe alpha has most likely already happened.
Taunt adds flexibility with AVs by allowing for damage mitigating formations which can most certainly help the certain defender types that may more easily be often quickly dismissed as inadequate.
My firetank can keep Lusca's head and 2 legs taunted whilst teams can blast a leg with no defender or controller needed She only gets hit by spit due to range and has toxic res upto 80% due to healing flames being stacked.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
This is part of a wider problem I have.
PvP Builds are, by and large, deadweight for a dedicated PvE team.
The problem is that PvP builds need xp to level up, and often end up "piggybacking" on a PvE team who are nice enough to allow deadweight (at the expence of their own risk and xp gain).
[/ QUOTE ]
Yay!! let's go back to the dual builds topic!!!
Until
1. Team PvP becomes regular in Zones
and
2. AoE damage is buffed in PvP
I cant see PvP builds being anything but deadweight in PvE teams. And dual builds aint gonna come as far as I can see.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No taunt necessary for an AV? what planet are you from m8 gauntlet is rubbish without taunt and AV's will break from gauntlet the second a blaster opens with a barrage of attacks and his face quickly introduced the dirt but answer me this would you team with a tanker on the STF that didn't have taunt?
[/ QUOTE ]AV's in general and +4 AV's are two quite different kettles of fish.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ive know tanks with 1 slot in taunt have managed to perma-aggro Lord Recluse (something I understand is impossible with gauntlet / aura alone).
I would be very interested to know if a Granite can do this (lets asume no +recharge buff) with -70% penalty and if he can, what slotting would be required on taunt.
The face of with lord Recluse is something I wouldnt want to face without perma-aggro from tank unless the team is exceptionally good/well built (e.g. 8 rad defenders ).
Does anyone know if a Granite can do this and if so what slotting he/she needs?
[ QUOTE ]
Until
1. Team PvP becomes regular in Zones
and
2. AoE damage is buffed in PvP
I cant see PvP builds being anything but deadweight in PvE teams. And dual builds aint gonna come as far as I can see.
[/ QUOTE ]
And viceversa I agree tho, that's why I dont do any PvE on my 50's since i4
Taunt appears to work so much better on the STF than it did in RV XD but nvm that i have seen stonetanks permataunting lose aggro on 52 praetorian AVs. The Psionic ones may -rechg you anyway and if its a machine then they may seemably resist taunt so if psi and machine you would get babbage whom i have had the most trouble holding out of any without much actual trouble :P but i have seen a granite tank lose aggro on infernal for an instant which sadly was enough. Thing is, everytime a new patch comes in ya need to go and reinspect it all and a real sense may just be a virtual sense. The higher ya face then the more taunt ya need or atleast some duration overlap time (team acts on second taunt) and when ya talking more than one who could be spread then its nice to have plenty duration. Try your tank taunting every 17 seconds for a feel.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I honestly cant believe this topic has survived so many years...
I can cos its not half as long as others have been.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Peculiar...
Fire Taunt Aura requires a "to hit" and therefore is open to failure... circle of thorns comes particularly to mind.
All other taunt auras are auto "to hit" and not open to this.
I have always veiwed blazing aura as the "worst" taunt aura, although it still manages to do the job unless you are facing heavy accuracy debuffs.