Is a Tanker a Tanker if he/she doesn't have Taunt?
i can see where this topic will be going 
ps. im sure there is a HUGE post somewhere around here about this
EDIT: well i found this that may help you, i would advise taking taunt personally though, especially for AV's etc.
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I know there is probably no debate about this...
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wrong, its probably one of the longest running, and tiresome, debates concerning tankers.
there are two camps about this, the ones who thinks that tankers should spend all their powers on the primary (defense) and only pick the first attack (since they cant avoid it) and taunt from the secondaries. the remaining power choices should be used to pick power pools that boosts defence, resists, heals and provoke.
in their view a tanker should only jab, brawl and hit taunt/provoke and herd big big groups for the blasters to blow away with nova.
These people will flame you a blasphemous heathen for even considering not picking taunt.
the other camp finds that this style of tanking, while very effective, doesnt really suit them, or the teams they play with.
They find that while taunt are very effective for managing taunt, its possible to play without it. Some sets will need taunt more than others depending on various things like levels, reputation, slotting of powers.
In my experience, Inv/Em is one of those that greatly benefits having taunt before level 18. After level 18 it is needed less since you now have a very good taunt aura. Once you get into the late 30s and start facing archvillains more often it is again more useful to the inv/em tank.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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ps. im sure there is a HUGE post somewhere around here about this
[/ QUOTE ] There is indeed.
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In my experience, Inv/Em is one of those that greatly benefits having taunt before level 18. After level 18 it is needed less since you now have a very good taunt aura.
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Huh? Pardon me, but Inv has by far the worst taunt aura available to tankers. It´s a 1.25 sec MAG 3 taunt while all the others get an aura with a 13.5 sec MAG 4 taunt (or even two in the case of ice). This way you even have to attack bosses to keep their attention focused on you which can be a little bit tiresome in the case of spawns with multiple bosses in a large team given the almost non-existent AoE capabilities of EM.
So, I would rate an Invul´s aggro management very low without taunt while tankers with one of the other primaries may be able to work around their tauntlessness.
I would rather leave the team than enter any 40s mission with a tauntless Inv/EM tanker and I would be very sceptical in the 30s.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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I would rather leave the team than enter any 40s mission with a tauntless Inv/EM tanker and I would be very sceptical in the 30s.
[/ QUOTE ]Would you also absolutely refuse to enter a L40+ mission without a tank?
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Would you also absolutely refuse to enter a L40+ mission without a tank?
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I think this is the best reply i seen thus far regarding the taunt/no-taunt. Wraps it all up into 1 line 
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
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No. Actually I have even done the STF on Test without a tank. (Our tank disappeared never to return after several crashes of his PC.)
However, this was a team where the tanker was not that essential for aggro management due to the team setup with loads of control and buff/debuff potential (but we figured he could be helpful when facing multiple AVs).
But I always expect from team members that they bring something desirable to the table and that they fulfill their duty reliably. A tanker that can sometimes hold aggro just doesn´t fit that bill, so I would rather fill that spot with something else.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
My view on this is a tank who doesn't do a decent job of holding aggro is not a good tank. Taunt is a useful tool for this. The other tools a tank has are Taunt Auras and the secondary. Inv's taunt aura is okay, but not great. However it is also very late so make sure you learn to use gauntlet well.
AoE attacks, such as Whirling hands and combustion are good for aggro control. The single target attacks are less so, as you need to spread them out in order to get noticed by everyone.
One other thing to bear in mind. Invulnerability RELIES on having people in melee with you in order to get most of it's toughness against non S/L damage ( from invincibility ). If you skimp on the aggro management side of things, you will end up squishier.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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But I always expect from team members that they bring something desirable to the table and that they fulfill their duty reliably. A tanker that can sometimes hold aggro just doesn´t fit that bill, so I would rather fill that spot with something else.
[/ QUOTE ]So, if you had room in your team, and there was nobody online and available in your level range but a tauntless tank, would you invite them?
And then you get back to the whole question, what is the job of a tanker. Some say 100% aggro control, others say 'alpha damage taker', and all variations of this.
Its just that people cant accept eachother and start blaming others for having a stupid build, are useless or are not playing the game properly.
It is easy for me: Adjust and addept, in my 2 year+ experience i have seen many many builds. I even have met a Inv tanker with 'some' powers (no taunt). Determent as he was, he still ran in as first to take the alpha, used his attacks to keep most mobs busy.
Not untill after the mission i found out that he didnt had a single enhancement in his powers. Yes he missed a few mobs, but were easily wiped by the rest of the team, he had some buffs from defenders and was being healed. Was he a lousy tanker? Was he not worth being in our team? No, he was someone that kept trying and defending the team in the frontlines, and that for me is a 'tanker'.
This game is played as a team, where 1 lacks a certain aspect, the others can complete this lack. You can have the best tank in the world, but get 1 'frenzy' blaster or a trigger happy defender (offender) and you get in the same situation.
Yesterday i did the Sis Phyce TF on my PB, being the only 'tanker' of the team. Taunt with a tohit check versus red/purple.. i never managed to get alot mobs taunted. But running in and take alpha, doing a aoe and some single target bashing kept the team alive most of the time.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
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Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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But I always expect from team members that they bring something desirable to the table and that they fulfill their duty reliably. A tanker that can sometimes hold aggro just doesn´t fit that bill, so I would rather fill that spot with something else.
[/ QUOTE ]So, if you had room in your team, and there was nobody online and available in your level range but a tauntless tank, would you invite them?
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You may be in a position of not really wanting a tauntless tank because what it is you could of needed the tank for can get done by a scrapper with taunt and then someone else considered more desireable can come to the team than a tauntless tank in regards to AVs
In regards to normal missions you dont always need a tank, you can set the rep lower if ya like but meh why bother buff the scrapper send em in and give them a few extra seconds or somit. Tanks do make easier work of missions and you should be safer with one but likewise you should feel safer with a tank that has taunt than one without.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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And then you get back to the whole question, what is the job of a tanker. Some say 100% aggro control, others say 'alpha damage taker', and all variations of this.
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Control the direction and placement of fire and to take sufficient damage and secondary effects "off" the rest of the team but not so much for the scrappers.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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My question to you all is mentioned in the title of this post: is a Tanker a Tanker if he/she doesnt take Taunt? 
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To summarise:
A lot of people will say yes.
A lot of people will say no.
Both sets of people will retread the arguments that have been made many times before. These may get heated and eventually lead to intervention and/or lockage by Bridger.
I'd suggest skimming the arguments in case something's raised that sheds new light on things for you, and in the meantime play your tank in a way that works for you.
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Huh? Pardon me, but Inv has by far the worst taunt aura available to tankers. It´s a 1.25 sec MAG 3 taunt while all the others get an aura with a 13.5 sec MAG 4 taunt (or even two in the case of ice).
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Last time i checked Invulns Invincibility it looked fixed.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
My inv/em found picking up Taunt early helped, and it's easy to fit, not many low level attacks to take (Maybe energy punch and bonesmasher, and that can do you fine), and the passives aren't needed that much (Well I skipped them). Just make a build, see if you fit it in, and see if there's anything you could easily trade for taunt if not. It's all down to playstyle.
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Huh? Pardon me, but Inv has by far the worst taunt aura available to tankers. It´s a 1.25 sec MAG 3 taunt while all the others get an aura with a 13.5 sec MAG 4 taunt (or even two in the case of ice).
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Last time i checked Invulns Invincibility it looked fixed.
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Yes it was initially fixed in the December 12th patch (then broken then fixed again).
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@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
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But I always expect from team members that they bring something desirable to the table and that they fulfill their duty reliably. A tanker that can sometimes hold aggro just doesn´t fit that bill, so I would rather fill that spot with something else.
[/ QUOTE ]So, if you had room in your team, and there was nobody online and available in your level range but a tauntless tank, would you invite them?
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Depends on the kind of "tauntless tank" we are talking about. If it is for example a fire/fire or ice/ice I say "yes, please", but if it is the tauntless Inv/EM we are discussing it´s highly unlikely that I would consider inviting him.
However, if I feel that the team is able to cope with an additional team member (and the additional mobs) and he asks for a spot and seems to be a nice guy chances are that a soft spot in my heart will let him join. (If there is nothing available to increase the team´s performance I may as well invite someone who might know a joke or two I don´t know yet. 
) In this case his AT and powersets wouldn´t really matter as long as he is no walking-talking team-debuff.
But if the team was because of it´s composition in need of some aggro management I would rather convince one of my friends to log onto one of his tankers than to rely on a tauntless Inv/EM to do the job.
So, to answer the OP´s question I would say that although a tauntless Inv/EM might technically still be a tanker he would be less and less able to fill the role of the tank in bigger teams.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
I dont know about fire/, but since BA has a tohit check on its ticks... good luck when you face +4's
At least Inv is autohit :P
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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I'd suggest skimming the arguments in case something's raised that sheds new light on things for you, and in the meantime play your tank in a way that works for you.
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Damn straight
Sin, I am not trying to start an argument. I am just voicing my own opinion but referring to Standoff's advice wouldn't it be rather unfair to not invite someone just because they don't have one power? If it is the way they want to play their character then so be it. We all have to accept it even you do think "Oh my lord! Why has he took that power!?" or ":-O She doesn't have that!?". And like Sinergy X's little story about the tauntless, enhancementless Tanker. He/she still did his/hers job very well regardless of the fact they had no enhancements and Taunt.
Also, I'd like to thank you all for taking notice. It really has shed some light on the Archtype. I will roll my Tanker and when the power becomes open to me I'll decide then
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anybody that kicks you for not having taunt is likely someone you are better off not teaming with anyway...
(kicking someone for being a poor tanker whether they have taunt or not is a entirely different story though)
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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anybody that kicks you for not having taunt is likely someone you are better off not teaming with anyway...
(kicking someone for being a poor tanker whether they have taunt or not is a entirely different story though)
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I wouldn't kick someone for being a poor tanker either. I would for being the cause of mass faceplantage. If someone scranks in the melee, drawing 2 or 3 enemies s/he isn't a problem, just not ideal.
I'm not looking for the perfect team, just a team that doesn't try and get me killed. Of course a perfect team is better, but only if it is more fun.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
well. i have an ice/fire, and i wouldn't waste a power on taunt if you paid me... Chilling embrace, icicles, combustion, FSC and fireball do enough taunt to keep a small army in check.
by the same token, i have actually recently made an inv/nrg tank.. and at lvl 5 it is finding aggro management a serious issue. Having a very early, and very good, taunt aura with ice has spoiled me somewhat. i feel like i shouldn't NEED taunt, but when it comes down to it my tank can't hold aggro without it at the moment. So i will definately be taking it on this new tank.
back to the general debate. some tankers can tank all day without taunt, and you'd never notice. others... less so. it's a personal choice, and imho there is no right or wrong answer.
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I wouldn't kick someone for being a poor tanker either. I would for being the cause of mass faceplantage.
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Where a tanks positioned about an AV can be the cause of a mass team wipe.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I wouldn't kick someone for being a poor tanker either. I would for being the cause of mass faceplantage.
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Where a tanks positioned about an AV can be the cause of a mass team wipe.
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Or the lack of knowledge that quite alot AV's do a nuke at 5% 
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Hi all.
But it is a AT I really want to have ago at playing since I now enjoy playing melee characters, however, I want a melee character that can stand and fight through prolonged battle and not die three minutes into the fight due to being one-shot by an Archvillain
like my Stalker. 
) doing that but I would rather have a more exciting power than Taunt.
I am thinking of trying a Invulnerability/Energy Melee Tanker since I haven't had a long-term Hero yet.
IMO the idea of me Tanking sounds... disastrous.
My question to you all is mentioned in the title of this post: is a Tanker a Tanker if he/she doesnt take Taunt?
I know there is probably no debate about this but Taunt isnt a power I would jump for with. I know the main point of a Tanker is to Tank and I can see myself (rather badly
Thank you in advance for any replies, Rap
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