A blaster with no Stamina. Is it possible?
By
Amazing_Shnyet,
Posted on: 2007-01-15 09:04 in Blasters
wow my energy energy blaster is always below 50% endurance..even with stamina 6 slotted.. (must do a respec.. i haven't since i5)
Only blaster I'd try a stamina-less build with would be /elec. But yes, it can be done.
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Then, the question: IS IT POSSIBLE TO PASS ON THE FITNESS POOL?
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Yes but more so in teams.
An end slot in each attack is a start plus supplying great damage per group per end using aoes. Herding tanks who group up are effectively saving the whole team endurance if they stack aoes. As the aoes hit 16 if your a blaster and your cones hit 10. What compromises this of course is the fact you do get people who dont knockback to walls or dont save their knockbacks for a finisher. A kb opener can spread mobs outside of the cones other people supply and outside of the smaller aoe other people supply also effectively lowering the damage per second of the team. Usually the energy/energy blaster in my experience does alot of damage but takes away the damage potential of the team.
If you solo you may single target more but you still can go by without stamina, just dont use your aoes on foe numbers too small to get as good damage per end to group as you would single targets.
What may go against you is in AV fights with no endurance buffer as the fight may be strewn out into too much of a lengthy one but even with stamina + end slots per attack that too can happen.
My AR/Dev has stamina atm but it wont be long before i can remove it. The reason she has it is because naturally i like to fight with targetting drone, cloak, acrobatics and superspeed on but these wont kill her endurance and neither will the attack chain. What kills her endurance is the fact that i accidentally leave super jump on as well.
1 end slot per attack should pretty much do it plus getting toggles down to a reasonable figure that all toggles average to. You may just not end slot 1 because its combat jump and 2 end slot acrobatics, 1 end slot an armour etc.
I have scrappers, a stalker, a brute, blasters, a tank, a dom, a defender and a mm without stamina but the more efficient a team can play the better it works.
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Has actually anybody tried this with good results?
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Even with a dark armour brute, but you just cant team with players that lack in the knowledge of the team dynamics you require.
If everyone would look at who they team with when they join the team and if they knew the special requirements of those people we wouldnt all be playing in such an inefficient manner because there is untapped survivability as well.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
First, let me sort out one mathematical error:
One endurance reduction SO will save roughly one sixth of normal endurance cost as three SOs will not save 100% but rather approximately half a power´s cost.
So, endurance-wise you can emulate stamina with 2 endu SOs per power. Otherwise you will drain your endurance fast... very fast when you are in large teams. And honestly, I would not even dream of a blaster with that many spare enhancement slots.
It is certainly doable to build a stamina-less en/en blaster, but your performance will inevitably suffer.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
My energy/energy blaster went long without stamina, trying to survive with slotting and conserve power. It didn't work. Currently I have 3-slotted stamina, conserve power, and 1 end redux in the most costly attacks and I run out of endurance in prolonged attacking unless conserve power is available. He is a PVP-specced blapper.
Certainly I was not aware of the mathematical error, but it's absolutely logic. Thanks to make me see it.
I thought I could be able to spare one slot per power to use EndRed SOs, but if it is two slots per power, then it is too much to spare, even if the return is three power choices.
In the other hand, I currently use no toggles and, when I'm fighting a large-scale battle I switch off sprint, stealth... darn, even hover! (this way is easier to como close to the baddies and lay Bone Smasher on them). I suppose that's why my one-slotted stamina makes my End bar so happy.
For my epics though, I plan to go Force Mastery (Personal Force Field, Temp Invulnerability, Force of Nature) and maybe then I really need stamina to run the first two.
But I was not planning on taking Conserve Power! Should I "waste" another power choice on this one, too?
And, on a bit of an unreated topic... does Power Boost also "boost" de defense granted by Personal Force Field or the resistance granted by Temp Invulnerability?? If so... woohooo! Here comes the Blanker! (Blaster+tanker) At least for 15 secs... ^_^
3 epic + 3 fitness pool + 2 travel + hasten (nearly a "must have" for any blaster) leaves us with what? 15 choices of powers. Given primary + secondary powers in energy are almost all GREAT to have... this leaves us energy blasters with really not much space to find our own "identity"... we all end up being quite the same... well, just rambling here...
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And, on a bit of an unreated topic... does Power Boost also "boost" de defense granted by Personal Force Field or the resistance granted by Temp Invulnerability?? If so... woohooo! Here comes the Blanker! (Blaster+tanker) At least for 15 secs... ^_^
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Power boost boosts defense yes, but not resistance. PFF does not have a timer, its a toggle and not a costly one. You can keep it on indefinitely. It will allow you to hit the 'soft' defense cap anyway even without power boost. Drawback is that you cannot attack with it on. Temp invulnerability could use at least 2 end red in it. And you can 'tank' with force of nature on for a bit.
Conserve power is great, definitely not a 'waste'. A pve blaster can live without most stuff but stamina is simply nice to have for an enjoyable game experience.
i have stamina on my AR/Dev blaster but unless i'm fighting an EB i don't really need it i can get through missions easily using very little end. wouldn't want to try it with any other sets myself but could probably be done.
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One endurance reduction SO will save roughly one sixth of normal endurance cost as three SOs will not save 100% but rather approximately half a power´s cost.
[/ QUOTE ]More than one 6th. The formula for End/Recharge reduction is:
(Old value)/(1+enhanced amount)
One SO is worth about 0.33, so power with one SO will cost roughly 75% of base cost.
Very possible.
I've run my Nrg/Nrg blaster to 50 over about 500+ hours without Stamina. (also an Arch/Elec to 35 without, 42 WS without, 41 Earth/TA without.......etc etc)
I slot my melee's with 2endred and primaries with 1endred.
It's rare that I'd run low on end, and if I do, the Stamina users are running low too.
I only ever use Conserve Power after a Nuke, so I can keep blasting.
If you team a lot, you'll be fine. In a team of anywhere over 2-3 people, there'll generally be someone with a +End power in their pocket.
Be it the abundance of Kins with SB, or a helpful Empaths with RA, or even the Rads with AB.
It gets easier once you hit the 30's as you get the slots to finish off your build (either slotting additional Acc or Rech)
I've never felt inadequate on a team or felt a "sub-par" Blaster. If anything I felt a little stronger........because well, I had 3 more powers to pick.
My main advice would be to avoid toggles, or be prepared to slot them heavily.
I went Munitions Mastery with the auto-shield, meaning no End-cost. Yes, it's less effective, but it stays on when mezzed etc, so it aint all bad.
It also opens up the excellent Cryo Freeze Ray hold and extremely useful LRM. But obviously if you're set on Force, go for it, it's not a crime to use Blue inspirations for the gain of 3 extra powers 
Possible? Yes.
Effective? Not particularly. You'll need to slot endurance reducers where you wouldn't otherwise, which will detract from damage potential. You will also struggle to run a lot of toggles. Even with all that playing at a good pace when conserve power is not available is going to require heavy use of blues, carrying a lot of blues is going to mean less other useful inspirations that you may want at higher level, most particularly break frees.
In addition to which although you'd free up three powers, you wouldn't free up a lot of slots, what would you take instead that wouldn't need slotting?
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Possible? Yes.
Effective? Not particularly.
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I've run my Nrg/Nrg blaster to 50 over about 500+ hours without Stamina.
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Your honour, the defence rests. 
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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Possible? Yes.
Effective? Not particularly. You'll need to slot endurance reducers where you wouldn't otherwise, which will detract from damage potential. You will also struggle to run a lot of toggles. Even with all that playing at a good pace when conserve power is not available is going to require heavy use of blues, carrying a lot of blues is going to mean less other useful inspirations that you may want at higher level, most particularly break frees.
In addition to which although you'd free up three powers, you wouldn't free up a lot of slots, what would you take instead that wouldn't need slotting?
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Well I'd free up the slots people would usually put into the Fitness Pool, so the new powers would get those........it's not rocket science
With the Invention system just around the corner I can forsee a lot more people going Stamina-free.
I can't see how slotting an Endred here or there would "detract from damage potential".
Horses for courses I guess 
Im always up for demonstrating my Stamina-less builds, I think I've even teamed with you before on my controller and had no complaints 
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Without playing one yourself, it's hard to be a judge unfortunately.
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The defense rests
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Oh quiet you Half that time was waiting for you to kill someone with Ice secondary
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Well I'd free up the slots people would usually put into the Fitness Pool, so the new powers would get those........it's not rocket science
[/ QUOTE ]People usually put two slots into fitness (To get 3 in stamina), and nothing else, that's hardly enough to slot most combinations of 3 powers
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Im always up for demonstrating my Stamina-less builds,
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I'd take you up on that please, I wouldn't mind seeing your build here or via PM if it's easy for you to do. Not because I want you to prove it, but because I'm having endurance problems with my own budding energy/energy and your input would help finalise my own build (its in the blasters section if you'd like to post there instead).
Well, i play fire/ice (AoE end draining fun) so i would say no, as with the toggles you will get in epic's you do need stamina, or you need to give up one of the damage enhacment's for a end redux... your choice, but personaly, i think stamina is neccesary on most Archytypes, maybe not MM's because they have hardly any end draning attack's or powers..
It CAN be done; but it's like the Minionless Mastermind; it can be done SO much better with Stamina.
Especially in PvP matches with tactical starts.
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I think I've even teamed with you before on my controller and had no complaints
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I don't comment on anyone's build ingame unless invited to do so.
Blaster with no stamina? no way.
My lvl 50 blaster has Stamina (3 slot) and Consume (full slotted) and you know what? Sometimes, i still have endurance problems.
Blaster without stamina will not be able to pvp.
Some pve, maybe.... i would say bad pve.
Usually, even trollers and corrupters with /kinetic get stamina (kinetic means Trasference).... so, nothing to add here :P
You could run a stamina-less build but you'd have to slot heavily for endurance reduction and I think it would be pretty frustrating. Also bear in mind that without stamina, your endurance recovery will be sluggish, one hit from a sapper and you'll be a sitting duck.
As well as having to use all those spare slots on Endrecs.
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one hit from a sapper and you'll be a sitting duck.
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Id say that would be true for blasters with stamina as well, building a blaster with no stamina can be done but imo you wont be a very affective blaster, tbh i wouldnt even build any AT with out it now.
Most people in teams are made more effective than they are in some way or another, the endurance buff is just one of them.
In trying to plan a build for my energy energy Ursula i could find no optimal build to suit the many different situations. I guess its a case of suck it and see with whom i team with, what i value most and what id term to be fun.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
It isn't that bad. Even before I got Power Sink it was ok.
It takes work and thought about what powers you take and use, but I think it's worth doing as a personal challenge.
Hi all, fellow blasters.
I am currently running a level 37 (soon 38) energy / energy blaster. No mistakes, she is a blaster, not a blapper. Love the ranged attacks. Just use the close quarter combat to finish the enemies that get too close.
I have all the attacks in my primary except Explosive blast.
In my secondary I have Power thrust, Bone smasher, build up, power boost and plan to choose Total Focus when I reach 38 (I'm eager).
Flight pool with Hover and Fly.
Speed pool with Hasten.
Until now I have used the Fitness pool with Swift, Health and Stamina. All three powers just one-slotted.
I have never had endurance problems (except after Nova-ing, but hey, it's a cheap price for that much destruction!).
I blast left and right, continuously, and my endurance bar rarely goes further than 50% down. And, I repeat, I have Stamina just one-slotted for endurance modification.
According to the info I have read here and there, natural recovery is 1.67 end/sec. Stamina three-slotted recovers an additional 0.82 end/sec for a total 2.49 end/sec recovery.
So, not having Stamina means you will recover only about a 67% of your total recovery potential.
Then, the question: IS IT POSSIBLE TO PASS ON THE FITNESS POOL?
Just slotting one endurance reduction SO in each power should produce aproximately the same result: aprox 30% reduction in Endurance used, so you spend 30% less endurance to compensate the 30% less endurance you recover by not having stamina.
Has actually anybody tried this with good results?
I think it would be great to free these three power choices to squeeze in the build... well, medicine pool and stealth, you know, good enhancers of the quality of live for a blaster.
I really need your input. THANKS!