Drain psyche is -500% regen, for 30 seconds. It's way higher than most corruptors' -regen powers, and almost the same stats as corruptor's LR, except LR is non-resistable.
Really, I thought it was less?
And the recharge is?
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Drain psyche is -500% regen, for 30 seconds. It's way higher than most corruptors' -regen powers, and almost the same stats as corruptor's LR, except LR is non-resistable.
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Are you sure that's correct Lecxe? where is that info from? +500% is supposed to be a Dominator's regen cap. The Prima guide states -30 regen in pvp and -5 in PvE.
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Even in the super-basic official AT introduction, corruptors are listed as "high" damage, and dominators as "medium". On my dominators, I can only come close to corruptors damage when domination has fired off, and even then its still less
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I dont think [Dominators] are gimped in any way (although they do need to be balanced - plant and /energy are superior imho).
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If I was being charitable I would call you 'inconsistent'. I'm amazed that 6 months after I was having these same arguments people are posting this nonsense on the forums. If your experience of Dominators comes from reading the descriptions do I really need to roll my eyes upwards?
Try out an Ice Blast Corruptor and and Ice Assault Dominator and then say you do " less damage than a Corruptor with Domination running ".
The reality is if you compare the Corruptor's Ice Bolt and Ice Blast with the Dominator's Ice Bolt and Ice Sword their damage is the same, excluding both Domination and Scourge (In fact Ice Bolt does do very slightly more damage). These attacks have the same recharge, same end cost.
If you look at the single target attacks between Ice Blast and Ice Assault, the Dominator has 5 attacks whereas the Corruptor has 3. Want to guess which one does more single target damage?
It doesn't seem like you have actually looked that much at all at the assault sets. Energy Assault, by the way, is far from a superior set, I would say it's balanced since it has Power Boost but is certainly beaten for damage by Fire, Ice and Thorns. All the assault sets have things going for them including Psi Assault.
If you choose Psi you're are going for utility over damage - it has great -Recharge, and Drain Psyche can mean you can (potentially) skip Stamina - that's freeing up a whole Power Pool and three powers. All Dominator assault sets have late maturing attacks (much like tanks) but Psi is a bit more extreme than the others having the awesome Psychic Shockwave at level 38.
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Really, I thought it was less?
And the recharge is?
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Cognito I would suggest you get Character Builder, it's not always right but most of the power information is correct:
Character Builder
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Drain psyche is -500% regen, for 30 seconds. It's way higher than most corruptors' -regen powers, and almost the same stats as corruptor's LR, except LR is non-resistable.
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Are you sure that's correct Lecxe? where is that info from? +500% is supposed to be a Dominator's regen cap. The Prima guide states -30 regen in pvp and -5 in PvE.
[/ QUOTE ] NoFuture (Which is, AFAIK, the most accurate power database by far) says:
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100% Regeneration to Self for 30 seconds
-500% Regeneration to Target for 30 seconds if (target = critter)
-3000% Regeneration to Target for 30 seconds if (target = player)
100% Recovery to Self for 30 seconds
-500% Recovery to Target for 30 seconds if (target = critter)
-3000% Recovery to Target for 30 seconds if (target = player)
8 Rage to Self if (target = player)
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Thanks, those numbers should make the Dominator episode of "That's Amazing". -3000% Regen in PvP? o.O ouch.
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Thanks, those numbers should make the Dominator episode of "That's Amazing". -3000% Regen in PvP? o.O ouch.
[/ QUOTE ]Indeed, enough to floor the regen of a char with both instant healing and regen aura.
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If you choose Psi you're are going for utility over damage
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Little nitpick : Psy is one of the best AoE secondary if you're willing to wait until level 39-40 to be awesome. 
Psychic shockwave does twice the damage of most AoEs, can disorient and recharges faster (10s, base ; easily goes to 5s with Hasten and one recharge SO). It's good enough in damage, end cost and recharge to be a single-target attack, but it's an AoE.
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Interesting. Thanks. Can I clarify tho... 3 dominators and what else? I take it you didnt take down a Hero with just 3 dominators.
I agree drain psyche has a very good -regen component - it just doesent last that long afaik.
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Yup, just us three (3).
30 second duration, with 30 second downtime without Hasten. With Hasten the downtime is about 15 seconds or so. This downtime didn't matter really, we downed him fast.
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Really, I thought it was less?
And the recharge is?
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Cognito I would suggest you get Character Builder, it's not always right but most of the power information is correct:
Character Builder
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I do. And as you note, its not always correct.
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Interesting. Thanks. Can I clarify tho... 3 dominators and what else? I take it you didnt take down a Hero with just 3 dominators.
I agree drain psyche has a very good -regen component - it just doesent last that long afaik.
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Yup, just us three (3).
30 second duration, with 30 second downtime without Hasten. With Hasten the downtime is about 15 seconds or so. This downtime didn't matter really, we downed him fast.
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Very impressive. Especially as you must have been running on a high difficulty level to actually spawn a Hero rather than an elite boss.
/em tips hat.
For my interest - what sets? Id imagine at least 2 /psi sets in order to get adequate -regen?
(Another topic of course - the ridiculous overpoweredness of -regen powers in toppling AVs)
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If I was being charitable I would call you 'inconsistent'. I'm amazed that 6 months after I was having these same arguments people are posting this nonsense on the forums. If your experience of Dominators comes from reading the descriptions do I really need to roll my eyes upwards?
Try out an Ice Blast Corruptor and and Ice Assault Dominator and then say you do " less damage than a Corruptor with Domination running ".
The reality is if you compare the Corruptor's Ice Bolt and Ice Blast with the Dominator's Ice Bolt and Ice Sword their damage is the same, excluding both Domination and Scourge (In fact Ice Bolt does do very slightly more damage). These attacks have the same recharge, same end cost.
If you look at the single target attacks between Ice Blast and Ice Assault, the Dominator has 5 attacks whereas the Corruptor has 3. Want to guess which one does more single target damage?
It doesn't seem like you have actually looked that much at all at the assault sets. Energy Assault, by the way, is far from a superior set, I would say it's balanced since it has Power Boost but is certainly beaten for damage by Fire, Ice and Thorns. All the assault sets have things going for them including Psi Assault.
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Please stay charitable!
Admitedly Im no expert on dominators. I have played them up to level 28, 23, 22, and 12 at various times - not to high levels (for reference, a Plant/Psi, Ice/Ice, Ice/Fire, and Mind/Energy). Merely qouting the handbook does not mean, as you seem to have concluded, that this was my only experience of dominators (which I concede is not full) - but rather a pointer to how the dev's see the damage output of the two ATs. And that is, perhaps, worthy of pointing out?.
Just because I have a different opinion, it dosent mean I havent looked at these things fairly carefully. I have played an Ice/Ice dominator up to level 23 and an Ice/Thermal Corruptor up to level 12. I know what felt more damaging from experience. My exepreience of my 3 dominators and my 5 corruptors - I have always felt the corruptors outdamaged. They certainly solo'd a lot faster.
For reference, I care little for single target damage on its own. Its only one factor.
There really are so many variables: dps, dpe, animation times, accuracy, etc.. its hard to just say "toon x has more single target attacks" therefore it outdamages. Im sorry, I wouldnt actually want to guess which toon does more single target damage. However, I would be fairly confident in which one does the most AoE damage. The brawl index system, i understand, is flawed, so one cant take it as gospel. Im sorry, but I would have to say that I still view dominators as having less damage potential than corruptors from my experience and from the (sometimes innacuate and flawed) data I have. But it certainly interesting that you have had a markedly different experience.
I found my /energy dominator overpowered personally. Simply because they add more control in terms of powerful melee disorientate effects. I find plant/ overpowered too, because of seeds of confusion.
Beleive me I only really say things are overpowered because I play the set. And when I do, I tend to loose interest in the sets. Not that any one set is vastly superior, it just it seems kind of odd to me to play something that feels overpowered. I dont like it. Now it may just be my lack of skill or misperception, but it is at least based on actuallly playing these sets to a reasonable (usually level 20+) level - although I concede I only played /energy to level 12. I do find seeds of confusion overpowered, I do find /energy secondary overpowered, just like I find things like the /regen secondary overpowered.
Anyway, only offering my humble opinions. Sorry for any offence caused by them - not really my intention!. Ill have to disagree with much of what you wrote, just as you disagee with much of what I wrote, I suppose. Im not quite sure how I have been inconsistent in my opinions, as you say - even if you disagree with them I think I have been fairly consistent - unless I have been persuaded otherwise on the boards?
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Just because I have a different opinion, it dosent mean I havent looked at these things fairly carefully.
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You may or may not have looked at Dominators carefully, but you have made some bizarre statements about them.
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I have played an Ice/Ice dominator up to level 23 and an Ice/Thermal Corruptor up to level 12. I know what felt more damaging from experience. My exepreience of my 3 dominators and my 5 corruptors - I have always felt the corruptors outdamaged. They certainly solo'd a lot faster.
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If anything Dominators do more damage than Corruptors at low level, I would agree most Corruptors should be doing more AoE damage at high level. You are simply wrong about Dominators and Corruptors leveling speed. It's bizarre you have found this at low level, the opposite is true from the simple fact that Dominators do damage with both power sets and corruptors with one. Some Corruptor sets give powers which offer -Res early but these come into play later on and Domination is at least if not more powerful.
an earlier comment of yours is telling:
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Dominatosr do need a very careful look at. And the answer, contrary to devs apparent vision, is not, IMHO, to bring domination up more and more often.
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You don't like Domination. That is a bit of a sticking point when playing a Dominator.
I can't explain how you found this:
"I can only come close to corruptors damage when domination has fired off, and even then its still less"
How is that possible? Can you give an example?
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For reference, I care little for single target damage on its own. Its only one factor.
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Except you also said:
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THe major problem would be actually doing enough damage. It could be done, but it would be a long slow process
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So you don't think Dominators do enough damage? or you just want to ignore the single target damage?
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There really are so many variables: dps, dpe, animation times, accuracy, etc.. its hard to just say "toon x has more single target attacks" therefore it outdamages.
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So, it's reasonable for you to quote a vague description about AT damage, but it's not reasonable for me to state something very basic ie. the number of attacks a Dominator has in comparison to Corruptors! Of course there's more to it than that.
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The brawl index system, i understand, is flawed, so one cant take it as gospel.
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I mentioned the brawl index where?
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Im sorry, but I would have to say that I still view dominators as having less damage potential than corruptors from my experience and from the (sometimes innacuate and flawed) data I have. But it certainly interesting that you have had a markedly different experience.
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Trying playing both ATs - which is what I did.
The stuff you're saying about Plant and Energy being overpowered, er, great, so Dominators are both seriously underperforming and so overpowered you can't bear to play them.
I don't buy the "humble opinion" ruse. You posted a number of things which as far as I read them are just more 'Dominators as whipping boy' posts backed up with no argument whatsoever, usually this stuff comes from people who simply don't like playing Dominators because something about them irritates them - they want them to be more like Controller or more like Defenders or Corruptors - well *that* I think is valid reason not to like playing them, but it doesn't have anything to do with how good or bad the Assault sets are, so why continue to wheel out the same old mis-information?
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acording to posts above aparently not 8 doms cant stack enough Mag even with DOM up.
And its actually been shown in the regular all dom team tht it cant be done in a mayhem mission
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Hey, what? We have shown nothing of the kind. On the contrary, I've seen us hold an AV through triangles several times. Obviously it takes a bit of stacking, especially if not everyone has Dom up.
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(Another topic of course - the ridiculous overpoweredness of -regen powers in toppling AVs)
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Come on.
I've soloed Johnny Sonata's soul, even-level AV, as a lvl 36 ice/energy dominator 2 days ago. No -regen here. Took me 20min, but that's besides the point : a dominator can beat 300% regen solo, while I've yet to beat 300% regen with a corruptor without using -regen, before lvl 47 and HOs.
If one dom has enough DPS to kill one even-level AV without -regen, I'm pretty confident 8 doms will have enough DPS to kill one +3 AV without -regen. And with -regen, it'll go faster.
Now you're going to say "energy is overpowered"... Whatever. Are we too weak or too strong? Make your choice.
There's many things to consider when you compare dominator damage to corruptor damage. 1 against 1, most of the time the dominator will do more damage ; our melee attacks do more damage, pets* do a lot of damage, domination is up half the time and gives a build-up like boost. The only bad thing is we have lower ranged damage.
*Yes, mind hasn't pets. However, mind has a ST confuse, which is a huge xp booster if used well.
Domination gives us a full end bar - which helps a lot. I've ran out of end exactly three times on my (now) lvl 38 dom ; once against a Sapper I failed to hold, once against 5 MUs zapping me at once, once while against Johnny's soul.
My ice/rad corr had to wait until HOs to be able to run her toggles, heal and attack non-stop without managing end. That's with 3endmod/3rech in AM, hasten, 1 end reduc in every attack and LR, 2 end reduc in radiant aura, 3 end reduc in EF, etc. .
Control is almost always superior to debuffs in solo PvE. You hold something, and that's it. 100% damage mitigation for as long as it lasts. Believe me or not, but I've just soloed a (even-level) Ballista while writing this post - I've set my hold on Auto and let Jack go to town, occasionnally alt-tabbing to use TF and BS or pop hasten/domination/power boost. Piece of cake, it was perma-held. My BRUTES need purples to fight ballistas before their 38 power !
While corruptors can be hit by everything, even with their acc debuffs... and need their debuffs to do damage (except kin). Every corruptor who ever soloed a longbow mission will know what I mean (40594059% accuracy on that Nullifier stun-shot!).
Sure, they can stock up on breakfrees... just like a dom can stock up on enrages because we don't need breakfrees most of the time. (I don't do it myself, dom damage is fine IMO)
In teams, I'd argue one dominator often brings as much than one corruptor, control > debuffs in damage mitigation (but corruptors often have better AoE damage so it evens out). However, 3 corruptors bring more than 3 dominators ; there's only so many times you can hold things, unlike debuffs/buffs who stack. It doesn't mean dominators suck, buffs/debuffs just work that way. That's why we see corruptor, controller, defender superteams. 3 corruptors bring more than 3 brutes or 3 stalkers, too.
Ok. I dont like the tone this is taking. Im bowing out now saying you have made a lot of good points that I have considered and modified my opinion on. However, I am still of the view that dominators are slightly underpowered against AVs. Which is the question of the OP.
I really dont mind my opinions being ground down by polite argument but thats not what you have in mind it seems.
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I've soloed Johnny Sonata's soul, even-level AV, as a lvl 36 ice/energy dominator 2 days ago. No -regen here. Took me 20min, but that's besides the point : a dominator can beat 300% regen solo, while I've yet to beat 300% regen with a corruptor without using -regen, before lvl 47 and HOs.
If one dom has enough DPS to kill one even-level AV without -regen, I'm pretty confident 8 doms will have. enough DPS to kill one +3 AV without -regen. And with -regen, it'll go faster.
Oh and as regards to /energy. Ill just clarify my rather poorly put out opinion. I think dominators are slightly underpowered against AVs/Heroes. I think /energy assault is slightly superior to other assault powers because of the heavy control factor they bring in from the melee disorientates. These differences are slight, not severe. However, the problem with the RLSF is that slight differences can really make a difference.
And, my plant dominator wants seeds of confusion to be less powerfull. 
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I heartily congratulate you. I dont think Ive ever solo'd an Arch Villian on any toon. Im truly in awe of someone doing it with an AV!. How on earth you managed it I doubt Ill ever know but well done. I can barely solo an EB with a dominator and thats at even level and sucking my inspiration tray dry. How you did that on an invincible setting! Let me know!
However, I will stand by my comments that -regen powers are too valuable against AVs. The difference between having one and not having one against an AV is far too noticible.
Johnny's Soul doesn't have PToD, thus he only needs 2 holds to hold him as an AV. Killing him can take so long though, as he's still got that AV regen (I think). Most of the time the real killer I find is that if I miss one hold (against an EB with 3 holds required to hold him) I'm usually done (so I start running if I miss ) so infact taking on Johnny's Soul is a lot more confortable than taking on, say, a Ballista. Johnny is infact one of the easiest AVs, but still the regen is tough to beat, especially with a such lower DPS secondary such as Energy. The burst feat can be high, but animation times & recharge are a killer.
Cognito, we had me, a Plant/Thorns, a Fire/Fire and a Mind/Psi. We took him on Relentless.
Excellent work! congrats!
I can see why ol Blue eyes went down if there was no PToD! now it becomes clear! nice work anyway!
Actually more impressed with the three doms taking down an AV with PToD!
Top domination! 
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
I think /energy assault is slightly superior to other assault powers because of the heavy control factor they bring in from the melee disorientates.
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This I can agree with. I've played ice/thorns before my ice/energy and the difference is night and day. Being able to Block of Ice - Total Focus - Block of Ice (or Block of Ice - Bonesmasher - Block of Ice earlier on) to control solo spawns in a few seconds is invaluable.
And as Zathroth said, soloing Johnny is easy - but slow, still has 300% regen and high hp - because he lacks triangles. Indigo and that kheldian guy haven't triangles either. It's not an accomplishment to solo him but it shows dominators have enough DPS to take on big guys.
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However, I will stand by my comments that -regen powers are too valuable against AVs. The difference between having one and not having one against an AV is far too noticible.
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I was on a team recently where four Doms tried to take on a +2 Aurora Borealis. Three of us were the normal level for her (with -2 SOs and some missing outright), and the other exemped down. Getting over her regen was no trouble at all. I'm also pretty sure we held her through her triangles when we all had Domination up.
We didn't take her out in the end - mostly because we were all standing far too close when she nuked - but the fact we had her down to nuke territory should tell you something. Four Doms can pretty easily overcome an AV's regen. I think at higher levels, with better enhancements and bigger insp trays it wouldn't have been a problem. At least two of us were running with no self heal available, too, which didn't help matters. So all-in-all this was a less than perfect AV-killing team, and we still nearly did it.
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I think /energy assault is slightly superior to other assault powers because of the heavy control factor they bring in from the melee disorientates.
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This I can agree with. I've played ice/thorns before my ice/energy and the difference is night and day. Being able to Block of Ice - Total Focus - Block of Ice (or Block of Ice - Bonesmasher - Block of Ice earlier on) to control solo spawns in a few seconds is invaluable.
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It's funny, I find /energy one of the weaker assault sets and would take /ice over it any day if I wanted Power Boost. Maybe /energy is better solo but I find the blasts and AoE really weak, snipe useless and the entire set just slow in general.
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I think /energy assault is slightly superior to other assault powers because of the heavy control factor they bring in from the melee disorientates.
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This I can agree with. I've played ice/thorns before my ice/energy and the difference is night and day. Being able to Block of Ice - Total Focus - Block of Ice (or Block of Ice - Bonesmasher - Block of Ice earlier on) to control solo spawns in a few seconds is invaluable.
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It's funny, I find /energy one of the weaker assault sets and would take /ice over it any day if I wanted Power Boost. Maybe /energy is better solo but I find the blasts and AoE really weak, snipe useless and the entire set just slow in general.
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I agree, I dont really like energy. A lot of the lowbie doms recently seem drawn to it as well.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Interesting. Thanks. Can I clarify tho... 3 dominators and what else? I take it you didnt take down a Hero with just 3 dominators.
I agree drain psyche has a very good -regen component - it just doesent last that long afaik.
Just to clarify, I love dominators and I love playing them. I dont think they are gimped in any way (although they do need to be balanced - plant and /energy are superior imho). And I dont think they are USELESS against AV's, I just think they are relatively weak especially compared to a corruptor for instance.
Normally this wouldnt be a problem, but I think it IS for a RLSF where there is a "prize" and success hangs so finely in the balance.