Say goodbye to your epic attacks?

Sauce

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• Controller Ancilliary Powers:
- The damage of these powers was made artificially high originally, to make them desirable. In general, the damage was set to be roughly equivalanet to that of a Blaster. When Containment was added later, this was not taken into account. As such, these powers all do roughly twice the desired damage under Containment conditions. This series of changes is aimed at bringing these powers closer to balance.
- Earth Mastery Hurl Boulder: Base damage reduced from scale 3 to scale 1.64
- Fire Mastery: Fire Blast: Base damage reduced from scale 2 to scale 1.1
- Fire Mastery: Fire Ball: Base damage reduced from scale 1.6 to scale 1.05
- Ice Mastery: Ice Blast: Smashing damage reduced from scale 0.8 to scale 0.2, Cold damage reduced from scale 1.2 to 0.8
- Ice Mastery: Ice Storm: Removed unresistible PvP damage and added Containment.
- Primal Forces: Power Blast: Smashing damage reduced from scale 0.8 to scale 0.2, Energy damage reduced from scale 1.2 to 0.8
- Psionic Mastery: Psionic Blast: Base damage reduced from 2 to 1.
- Psionic Mastery: Psionic Tornado: Base damage reduced from 0.35 to 0.175.

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Discuss.

EDIT: I love, after reading a few bits here and on US, the pervading (non controller) sentiment of "OMG THEY'RE SUPPORT CHARS!". No, back before AoE control was nerfed, back before a boss was the highest thing you could use any mez on, that's when controllers were support.

I know, I played a grav/storms, and she was awesome, but couldn't kill a damn thing.

The global hit to all AoE control effectively removed controllers from that niche and Cryptic gave us all a clear message when they introduced containment.

If controllers are supposed to be a support AT they should unnerf AoE control.

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If controllers are supposed to be a support AT they should unnerf AoE control.

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Didnt, as I've heard from the learned folk like you Augury , Statesman not like controllers in the first place?

Or equally PvP might have sam-thing to do with it... I havent spent too much time in PvP with my controllers, I've spent way too much time being a typical scrapper or on occasions my mastermind (my brute soon to join the fray )


Chiefette

Don't agree at all. The Epic Blasts shouldn't be doing twice the damage of things like Spectral Wounds in your primaries. Plus its Epics, ir only 9 levels of the game. For the previous 40 levels you're completely unaffected by the Epic Nerfs.

Plus my Illusionist, Fire controller and Grav Controller still has tons of AOE Control and all the single target tricks they always had. And they're widely regarded as the three "lesser control" options.

I play controllers & defenders almost exclusively. Compared to the useless damage Defenders do they've been lucky to get away with it so long.

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Don't agree at all. The Epic Blasts shouldn't be doing twice the damage of things like Spectral Wounds in your primaries.

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Ah buh buh buh buh buhhhhh

Epics (precise term of course then) Ancillaries are meant to 'shape out' and 'fill in the gaps' of an AT, yes?

(Patron powers being amusing as they dont fill in the gaps for every of the ATs)

Controllers lack in damage! So the ancillaries do give them some hope of a bit more damage...


Chiefette

Totally agree with Carni, even if it means that my level 37 controller will likely never get to have Fulcrum Shifted Fireball in all its current glory. This has been a long time coming.

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Don't agree at all. The Epic Blasts shouldn't be doing twice the damage of things like Spectral Wounds in your primaries.

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Ah buh buh buh buh buhhhhh

Epics (precise term of course then) Ancillaries are meant to 'shape out' and 'fill in the gaps' of an AT, yes?

(Patron powers being amusing as they dont fill in the gaps for every of the ATs)

Controllers lack in damage! So the ancillaries do give them some hope of a bit more damage...


Chiefette

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They will still give "a bit more damage", it's not like it's all taken away.. Fireball with Containment will still equal Blaster Fireball in damage.

Blaster epics don't turn them into tankers or controllers either, although they include control powers and shields.

Fulcrum shift is not a good thing to underpin nerfs on. Fulcrum shift is just uh... well, as far as I can tell the best buff in the entire game. There are plenty of controllers with few options for damage that don't have FS.

I guess the "controllers are support" thing is what put me over the edge. They used to be support, but after Cryptic shoveled containment onto us, and nerfed most of the "hard" AoE control (this is less bad for some sets, but take a look at grav as to how hard some sets can get hit) I have a hard time believing we're not supposed to do damage.

Why else would they give controllers an inherent power that relies on damage?

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Don't agree at all. The Epic Blasts shouldn't be doing twice the damage of things like Spectral Wounds in your primaries.

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Ah buh buh buh buh buhhhhh

Epics (precise term of course then) Ancillaries are meant to 'shape out' and 'fill in the gaps' of an AT, yes?

(Patron powers being amusing as they dont fill in the gaps for every of the ATs)

Controllers lack in damage! So the ancillaries do give them some hope of a bit more damage...


Chiefette

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Agree completely and thats how they were always intended, to give Controllers decent damage.

However when i5 came along with Containment the Epic damage suddenly went through the roof, especially for specialised builds & powers like Fireball.

Of course a few questions I have are :
1) How come its taken them 18 months to spot and fix this.
2) Why did they let Epics take Containment bonus damage in the first place?

Sneaking them into a post i8 patch was a bit odd too really. But its not ED or i5 so I'm not that worried or affected.

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Why else would they give controllers an inherent power that relies on damage?

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Because in i4 soloing a controller before pets was the most painful thing imaginable.

I've no quarrels with the AOE control in Grav, Wormhole is a cut down Flashfire on the face of it but the ability to relocate a group whereever you like too is wonderful.

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Fulcrum shift is not a good thing to underpin nerfs on. Fulcrum shift is just uh... well, as far as I can tell the best buff in the entire game. There are plenty of controllers with few options for damage that don't have FS.


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It's not what I'm doing either, just mentioned my controller to show that I have something to lose here, too. Maybe that was unnecessary. But if you ask me, an Ice/Emp/Fire does too much damage with Frostbite+Fireball. After these changes, Ice/Emp/Fire will still do damage with Fireball, just a more reasonable amount of it compared to, say, Empathy defenders, an AT with an entire secondary powerset designed to do damage.

By the by, there is a flaw in just halving the damage of say, psionic tornado. Even if this does keep it as strong as say a blaster nova with containment (I'm skeptical) consider that a blaster can just fire off a nova.

A controller would have to FIRST set up containment with AoE, which will easily take you a good 15 stamina. Then toss on psionic tornado. 40 stamina, and twice the activation time.

Think the devteam overlooked that little tidbit.

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By the by, there is a flaw in just halving the damage of say, psionic tornado. Even if this does keep it as strong as say a blaster nova with containment (I'm skeptical) consider that a blaster can just fire off a nova.

A controller would have to FIRST set up containment with AoE, which will easily take you a good 15 stamina. Then toss on psionic tornado. 40 stamina, and twice the activation time.

Think the devteam overlooked that little tidbit.

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Erm, nope. Tornado doesn't do Containment damage.

The two damages aren't supposed to be the same either Blasters are supposed to be better at dealing damage (even more rational for this fix), the Blaster can't mezz & debuff the entire group before Tornado / Fireballing / Ice Storming them without incurring a single hit. The Blaster is either gonna empty his End bar (nuke) or have a bunch of severly wounded but alive and annoyed enemies aggroed at him. The controller will have any survivors still mezzed and can start single-target holding & blasting them.

Aren't you overlooking the tidbit that a controller comes with far more damage mitigation than a blaster?

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Erm, nope. Tornado doesn't do Containment damage.

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... Um, if tornado doesn't do containment damage after this patch then why did it's damage get cut in half to begin with? I assumed because the reason for cutting the damage was because containment was supposed to double it, so I assumed tornado would now be affected by containment.

My first guess is PVP, because in PVE psionic damage isn't so unhinged it needs to be cut in half with no containment damage given to the power.

anyone else think this is all those fire/kin trollers fault?

Are you talking about Tornado or Psi tornado? I think therein lies the confusion

My first post said Psionic Tornado, so I'm talking about that one, and I'm all confused now.

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Erm, nope. Tornado doesn't do Containment damage.

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... Um, if tornado doesn't do containment damage after this patch then why did it's damage get cut in half to begin with? I assumed because the reason for cutting the damage was because containment was supposed to double it, so I assumed tornado would now be affected by containment.

My first guess is PVP, because in PVE psionic damage isn't so unhinged it needs to be cut in half with no containment damage given to the power.

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I assume we're talking Psi Tornado since its epics? I'm nearly sure it doesn't do containment but I could be wrong

Thats a very good question Augury, I asked it myself somewhere, espcially since Ice Storm IS getting Containment (and no adjustment to damage).

The only time I've seen Psi Tornado used was by a PuG teammate who'd just picked it up and his comments were "Wow, its like a nuke!"

Hmm, I thought it get Containment bonus, too

Some verification would be nice?

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anyone else think this is all those fire/kin trollers fault?

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Probably. Ironically, they will be the ones least affected by this change (FS should still be able to get them to he damage cap on teams).

Yes, in their attempt to try and nerf fire/kins they've ended up nerfing everyother kind of set doubley as much. I very much doubt this will stop fire/kins quality in mob destruction in the slightest.

They should just nerf FS, if you ask me. I'm practically waiting for it. Hell Iddy is a /kin and I would totally welcome the change, because FS actually plain deserves it for being a power that will make everyone in a team cap out on damage in a game where you're supposedly not capping out on anything without a lot of effort.

Or is that just me?

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They should just nerf FS, if you ask me. I'm practically waiting for it. Hell Iddy is a /kin and I would totally welcome the change, because FS actually plain deserves it for being a power that will make everyone in a team cap out on damage in a game where you're supposedly not capping out on anything without a lot of effort.

Or is that just me?

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that would nerf Kin defenders though, not just controllers. That's the problem with talking about powers or AT's in a general sense. You end up nerfing more than intended.

Also, Psionic tornado does get containment damage. Nobody would pick it if it didn't.

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They will still give "a bit more damage", it's not like it's all taken away.. Fireball with Containment will still equal Blaster Fireball in damage.

Blaster epics don't turn them into tankers or controllers either, although they include control powers and shields.

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I don't see why Controllers can't have a lv 2 Blaster power when Blasters get lv 2 controller powers and Tier 9 Tanker powers. I can still kill a boss faster than any troller on my blaster and I can clear an 8 man spawn faster than any Fire/Kin on my blaster.

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that would nerf Kin defenders though, not just controllers.

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Yes, and corruptors. Your point?