Not the same mag.
Char (blaster epic):
14.304 second Held (magnitude 3) to Target if (target = critter)
9.536 second Held (magnitude 3) to Target if (target = player)
Char (Controller):
22.35 second Held (magnitude 3) to Target if (target = critter)
16.763 second Held (magnitude 1) to Target (20% chance) if (target = critter)
14.9 second Held (magnitude 4) to Target if (target = player)
Controller in PvE has 20% shot in getting a bigger magnitude for a hold, in PvP, that is automatic.
Edit: What that other dude said.
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A blaster needs one hold to effectively hold a lt., so does the troller, and it needs to stack a second hold for a boss, just like the troller itself.
In PvP both need 3 holds vs scrappers/stalkers (unless SR when having stacked practised brawler) and 4 vs tankers/brutes.
Some blasters can get 3 ST holds, afaik, no troller can get past 1, 2 if it's TA secondary.
Trollers don't have mag4 holds, unless when it critics (which is 5% of the times iirc). If they did, they would hold a boss without stacking
As I said in my post:
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Controller in PvE has 20% shot in getting a bigger magnitude for a hold, in PvP, that is automatic.
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To emphasize:
Controller goes through acrobatics with a single hold. Blaster needs two. This as a person who plays an ice blaster with 3 holds.
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
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Trollers don't have mag4 holds, unless when it critics (which is 5% of the times iirc). If they did, they would hold a boss without stacking
[/ QUOTE ]20% chance in PvE, and automatic Mag4 in PvP, just as was explained to you in the previous post.
Well, mag between blasters and trollers is different but in facts, its not so different.
Dark is right when he says blasters can get 2-3 singles hold powers (2 if they are ice or lighting, and get fire as epic.. 3 if they are ice, get both freeze ray and bitter one, and get fire as epic)... trollers can only dream about that.
They get ONE single hold power, no way. (well, mind get telekinesis too... but i dont know if you can considerate it a single hold power...and its toggle too)
And we know, AoE hold powers have BAD BAD accuracy and LONG LONG recharge, so you can maybe use them to stack hold on bosses, but not in pvp.. no way.
I agree with dark, it never mind if trollers have more mag, they still need 3 holds attack to stop a scrapper/stalker, and FOUR to stop a brute/tanker ---_______---
to not mention hold suppression in pvp... (yeah, you're a troller, you're supposed to CONTROL you're foes like candies... but to hold them you have to try 3-4 times AND if you dont miss, if you dont die, if they didnt eat violet insp, you'll hold them but when hold go off you'll never be able to hold them again for 15 seconds...... you call this control? because i dont.)
Considering all that, i dont really think they were overperforming in pvp... all ATS but dominators (dominators...ahahahah lol) and maybe kheldians were better than trollers... corrupters and defenders were on the same lvl.
I dont think blasters need a nerf, because ice and lighting pool dont have powers that others pools shows, expecially ice really sucks with nova and aoe, compensng with 2 hold powers (..or maybe with one, cause bitter one sucks.)
BUT....lets check our trollers:
They've just got epic nerf, pvp and pve.
In pvp: control powers nerf, containment nerf.
i play trollers and i play scrappers/brutes and blaters too, and i'll never stop sayng i dont understand all this. Meele ATS are overperforming BUT trollers get nerf after nerf...
Im not expecting devs to change their mind, so we'll not have expect any trollers buff... but this situation sucks so i already know what will happens: Blasters will get a nerf soon (doenst needed, but they nerfed trollers, a new balance is needed, so lets make a new nerf) and brutes/scrappers/stalkers will be, one day, nerfed too (and this isnt a bad thing...i repeat, i think they're overperforming) until we'll play no more city of heroes, but city of people.
Controllers were overperforming in PvP, being able to two or three shot a squishy is overperforming.
I agree with the containment change in PvP, it's the APP change that bugs me. They should just fix containment to respect the damage cap, make it a modifier not a multiplier.
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Dark is right when he says blasters can get 2-3 singles hold powers (2 if they are ice or lighting, and get fire as epic.. 3 if they are ice, get both freeze ray and bitter one, and get fire as epic)... trollers can only dream about that.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, they can get 4, since elec and ice secondaries have a decent melee ST hold.
Oh course, BFR is horrible, so they can only get 3 decent holds, while controllers get one far more efficient hold. (Shorter recharge and much longer duration, FYI)
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until we'll play no more city of heroes, but city of people.
[/ QUOTE ]I've heard that being said for 5 issue launces now, it's starting to get old >_>
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Controllers were overperforming in PvP, being able to two or three shot a squishy is overperforming.
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A Stalker can 2 shot a squishy ....
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I agree with the containment change in PvP, it's the APP change that bugs me. They should just fix containment to respect the damage cap, make it a modifier not a multiplier.
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I agree, the containment change seems fair, the APP nerf was handled really badly.
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Controllers were overperforming in PvP, being able to two or three shot a squishy is overperforming.
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...2 or 3 shot? -.-
When? with what?
I suppose you mean 2-3 shots IF foe is held or under containment effects (and, as we said, we know holding people isnt that easy in pvp)
Im sure my troller wanst able to kill people with 2 containmented propels.. (most powerful attack trollers can use) and she didnt have time to cast it a 3th time, cause hold was already off.
Kill squishy with 2-3 shots is a stalkers thing... i've never notice trollers had the same dmg capability :P
Totally with Dawn here. Played many different trollers in many different pvp settings, but 2,3 shotting squishies is in general just impossible. Damage wise trollers were absolutely not overpowered in pvp.
PLayers with skills, good teamwork and the proper build are 'overpowered' regardless AT :P
A good controller could two or three shot a squishy in a 1v1 situation as soon as Containment was set up. And with the right slotting, it's pretty easy to burn 20 BF's in 10 minutes.
And yes, a Stalker can do that, but they're a high damage AT designed to do huge burst damage. Controllers are not, never were, the APP blasts are to round things off and the damage was a tad too high as it was above a Blaster's (before containment applied too), but it didn't need nuking this badly.
I want 2x Containment in PvP and have Containment respect the 400% AT Damage Cap.
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have Containment respect the 400% AT Damage Cap.
[/ QUOTE ]This is impossible to do with the current engine AFAIK, unless you want to make containments a 100% damage buff (In which case it won't be double damage if you're slotted for damage or have damage buffs), and even that is most likely very hard to code.
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have Containment respect the 400% AT Damage Cap.
[/ QUOTE ]This is impossible to do with the current engine AFAIK, unless you want to make containments a 100% damage buff (In which case it won't be double damage if you're slotted for damage or have damage buffs), and even that is most likely very hard to code.
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I don't give a [censored]. The fact that it's a Multiplier and not a Modifier is bull.
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A good controller could two or three shot a squishy in a 1v1 situation as soon as Containment was set up. And with the right slotting, it's pretty easy to burn 20 BF's in 10 minutes.
And yes, a Stalker can do that, but they're a high damage AT designed to do huge burst damage. Controllers are not, never were, the APP blasts are to round things off and the damage was a tad too high as it was above a Blaster's (before containment applied too), but it didn't need nuking this badly.
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Errm, with my Illu/Rad, which is afaik the controller combo that deals more dmg in a duel, I need 6 hits to take down another controller (1 hold and 5 attacks, alternating spectral wounds and epic blast). That, with EF on, and given the controller doesn't have mez protection or breakies.
Well certain blasters can 2 shot foes in pvp, tanks can 2 shot them too, scrappers can 2 shot them too... so I really don't understand what is the 'trollers APPs damage was overpowered' thingie, at least not for PvP.
About the holds mag, well, I don't know what number crunching sites say, but I do know a controller needs 1 hold to effectively hold a minion or an lt, and 2 holds unless critic to effectively hold a boss... does a blaster. Yet blasters can get up to 4 ST holds and trollers only 2, if it's TA secondary.. Thus a blaster can hold bosses much quicklier than any troller but /TA ones, and deffo can hold 2 bosses in the same mob much quicklier than any troller can.
I don't think that trollers were underpowered before the nerf, as someone said, but I don't think they were overpowered either. Now only Illu/ or Fire/ ones can only dream of getting a kill on a scrapper and certain tanks.
Dark i so agree with u we were not overpowered in pvp i still rock i think with my holds and all (Mind/Storm) but it takes ages to take an opponent down we can hold em forever but we can never kill em atleast give us something so we can defeat someone in pvp which i find now nearly impossible maybe something like the more holds you stack the more damage you do or something like that
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and blasters holds have the same recharge the troller's one have (and the same mag I must add).
[/ QUOTE ]Where are you getting that from?
According to NoFuture:
Controller Char:
Recharge Time 8 seconds
14.9 second Held (magnitude 4) to Target if (target = player)
Blaster APP Char:
Recharge Time 16 seconds
9.536 second Held (magnitude 3) to Target if (target = player)