He/She (rofl) doenst know about numbers, be he/she knows that Terrify/Mass Hypnosys, with 1 acc, rarely miss (yeah, maybe you miss 2 mobs of 10), total domination/flash use to miss almost half group of mobs...
Anyways, my pont wasnt only about accuracy, because aoe hold powers are weak in recharge time and duration too..
bad recharge (longest one), bad accuracy (lowest one) and bad duration (shortest one)..
for these reasons, i dont think aoe hold powers are great, they can be good with 6 slots but there is no gain to get them if you have somethig similar to get... things like mass confusion or aoe fear have similar effect but with better duration or acc or recharge or both
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He/She (rofl) doenst know about numbers, be he/she knows that Terrify/Mass Hypnosys, with 1 acc, rarely miss (yeah, maybe you miss 2 mobs of 10), total domination/flash use to miss almost half group of mobs...
Anyways, my pont wasnt only about accuracy, because aoe hold powers are weak in recharge time and duration too..
bad recharge (longest one), bad accuracy (lowest one) and bad duration (shortest one)..
for these reasons, i dont think aoe hold powers are great, they can be good with 6 slots but there is no gain to get them if you have somethig similar to get... things like mass confusion or aoe fear have similar effect but with better duration or acc or recharge or both
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Thats completely true alright. Since i5 the "best" AOE control was moved from the Holds to the other tools in the sets with the half duration & twice recharge change.
Another reason to skip Flash, the other AOE controls (Spectral Terror in this case) is much better, even without Containment (which the PAs make up for in fairness).
Spectral Terror wont ever give the same control that Flash does. Fear is not as good in controlling as hold is... And I rarelly miss a foe when I use Flash, otherwise I wouldn't use it as an opener in big teams being a squishy.
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Spectral Terror wont ever give the same control that Flash does. Fear is not as good in controlling as hold is... And I rarelly miss a foe when I use Flash, otherwise I wouldn't use it as an opener in big teams being a squishy.
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I'd probably agree with you for your Secondary (Rad). You've got RI for protection via the Accuracy debuff & to ensure Flash hits via the Defense Debuff. That said the low duration & long recharge of Flash count against it being used for every encounter anyway.
But for a Stormie the only Acc Debuff protection is Hurricane, which has obvious issues with a PBAOE. And your Defense Debuff is Freezing Rain which scatters & annoys them before you can close to Flash. Or Tornado... once thats released you've no chance of having a nice bunch to Flash. The Ranged Spectral Terror gets a lot more use with my Stormie, and with the quick recharge I can use it for every bunch.
I like cinders on my fire/rad alot. Radiation infection makes up for the lower accuracy and it helps alot if you want a boss held fast.
I think fluffymormegil said it all very well.
I think the game was changed for the better when AoE holds were weakened and we got Containment in exchange. AoE holds were far too much of an "I win" button, and Controller damage pre-containment was a bit of a joke. Now we have respectable damage and AoE holds are more of a tactical/situational power rather than the soft controls that have become the every-fight power. Much better balance.
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Why Teleport & Flight pools? At low levels I never see a point in taking 2 powers that are basically useless for combat.
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Ill troller with recall friend,super invis and deceive is a wanted man for doing cavern of transcendence 
Not to mention a good ghoster later on too, apparently the only one who can attack without breaking stealth (deceive).
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Like others have said, Deceive is very much worth it. What makes the power most useful, IMO, is its ability to turn enemy buffer/debuffers temporarily on your side. Nothing like getting an Accelerate Metabolism from a Rikti, or tricking a Tsoo Sorcerer into hurricane its allies (instead of your tank).|
Originally Posted by Balaban
I'm trying to build up my ill/storm controller but after reading a few posts i'm not sure if i really need these? Was thinking of waiting for Group invis, freezing rain and phantom army. In the meantime i've got swift, recall friend and 1st flight pool power. Are they needed?
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Other comments: If you're running tight on powers, I'd take Steamy Mist over Illusion's invisibility powers -- and certainly over Group Invisibility -- any day. Steamy Mist is, IMO, the best team stealth power in the game. It doesn't suppress from attacking, and it can be turned off (so you never need to wait for it to expire before escorting that idiot civilian to the exit). Mist isn't full invisibility, but even with that caveat I still think it's better than Illusions options. The resistance, while not huge, isn't anything to sneeze at, and it's easy to judge when you're getting too close -- as long as you keep mobs just outside of the VFX for the power, they generally won't see you.
The problem with Flash, or at least its problem last time I bothered taking it, was that it's animation time made it very dangerous to set off in the middle of a spawn. There's been some changes to the set in the interim, so I don't know if that's still the case (in particular, I don't know if Superior Invisibility makes Flash less of a suicide power, currently). Regardless, Ill/Storm has enough "soft" AoE controls that I've never missed it.
Let's do the time warp again!?!
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
Okay, that's weird. This thread showed up on the front page for me. Most be sorting by something weird. Never even thought to check the post date. 
Oh hello 5 year old zombie thread. You finally got yourself outta that grave eh? Well good for you...
EAT BOOMSTICK EVIL UNDEAD THREAD
*boom*
*walks off whistling*
(edit : Hey look, me from 5 years ago and a different Login commented on this thread too. Now I know how the Doctor feels when he bumps into a previous incarnation)
EAT BOOMSTICK EVIL UNDEAD THREAD
*boom*
*walks off whistling*
(edit : Hey look, me from 5 years ago and a different Login commented on this thread too. Now I know how the Doctor feels when he bumps into a previous incarnation)
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One clue as to this being an old thread.
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Originally Posted by Balaban
In the meantime i've got swift
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Blind is good, you'll use that a lot.
Flash... not so good. i have it only because of the fitness inherent respec and it isn't even on my power tray, and it's basically unslotted. this is a very poor AOE hold. Don't bother with it.
Deceive is all types of awesome, especially with the purple confusion set slotted in it, with the contagious confusion proc... that is fun. but what is even more fun is confusing Romulus and making him kill his own Nictus... THAT is pure comedy...
don't bother with the group invis... steamy mist is better... the superior invis is worth the investment for yourself.
Spooky is far better a control then flash. it recharges faster, lasts longer, and you can slot spooky with a damage proc to dish out a little extra damage.
Flash is OK as a panic button, or to stack magnitude on a boss.
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I've heard that sometimes someone will post to an old thread then delete their post, putting it back on the front page without any apparent reason.
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Originally Posted by LostCreation
Okay, that's weird. This thread showed up on the front page for me. Most be sorting by something weird. Never even thought to check the post date.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
These days, with inherent stamina allowing more powers to be selected, I don't see why you can't take both and have good numbers in both with less slots.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Not only is it easier to fit in Flash than when this archaic thread was started, but with the current IO builds, Flash can recharge pretty quickly. Mine recharges in around 60 sec, and lasts about 26 seconds. That's pretty effective control -- not every group, but often enough to be worth while.|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
These days, with inherent stamina allowing more powers to be selected, I don't see why you can't take both and have good numbers in both with less slots.
Lewis |
Plus, with the new BAF Trial, Flash is useful for the Prisoner Escape part while Spectral Terror is useless and PA is only good for doing damage.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I find I rarely if ever use the AoE holds these days. I can see in a situation like Local_Man describes, but those are rare cases in the grand scheme of things.
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You mean post "City of Piñatas?"|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
I find I rarely if ever use the AoE holds these days.
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Maybe I'm mistaken about Cinders, but I love it. Though I'm running Hot Feet and Choking Cloud at the same time, so that may effect some things. Well, at least Choking Cloud.
I'm an EMP/Cinder junkie.
Back on topic:
Deceive is gold. Also fun while waiting for people to show up.
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I was too new of a player to really be affected by the mass sweeping changes, but I think when it's all said and done, only Earth's AoE Hold is really worth much of anything and that's due to the pulse effect. It was really the AoE Hold least impacted by the changes. IOs just gives it even more interesting options.
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Originally Posted by Saltyhero13
You mean post "City of Piñatas?"
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I find all of them to be worthwhile. The AoE Holds provide another option for AoE control. Just because they are not up for every group does not mean that they are worthless. Cinders fills the gap when Flashfire is recharging. Flash can fill the gap when PA are recharging or are busy with another group. Glacier is great when things get out of hand. All the ranged holds for Mind, Grav, Elec, Plant and Earth have their strategic uses as fill-the-gap or panic button powers.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
I was too new of a player to really be affected by the mass sweeping changes, but I think when it's all said and done, only Earth's AoE Hold is really worth much of anything and that's due to the pulse effect. It was really the AoE Hold least impacted by the changes. IOs just gives it even more interesting options.
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LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I took Flash late on to help with containment for Fireball from the epic pool as I found Deceive much more useful at lower levels.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.