Whoa, hold up people. This is getting a bit 'tit for tat' and if what I've said has provoked that, apologies. Best clear a few things up before people get their hackles raised anymore
OK, you guys are doing Hamidon because it's fun and not to get fully slotted HO PvP toons.
The mentality on the two servers is definitely different in this regard as I don't think any two successful Hami raids on Union have been run by the same people(except when the planned leader didn't turn up for one so Jersey had to take over). On Union, someone tends to try and organise one as a challenge and once they've done it successfully, don't do a second and then you don't see another for a loonggg while.
Why doesn't it get done fortnightly on Union? No one is interested in doing it that regularly.
Why do I see HO's as leaving players at a disavantage in the test fights? Becuase that's exactly what happens. OK there's a maximum of around 6 HO's for a single player on test at the moment. That's probably 3 or 4 more than Union players and in 2 weeks there will be 4 or 5 more, 4 weeks 5 or 6 and so on. I accept that you're saying you don't do it xanth and Arch and not sure why you seem to take this as me pointing a finger, it wasn't
Let's put it another way. If one server has a much higher number of HO's in circulation than another server the potential for HO abuse is there on the test fights. How can you tell if someone is abusing it? You can't because you can't see their enhancements. There will always be someone who does something like this for an advantage.
How do you stop it? Take that advantage away by giving everyone the HO's they want on test using the method above.
Why do I care? As stated by myself and Archy, I don't go to Monday night PvP, when I do go(which by my current lack of PvP skill will be a long way off), I don't expect to be competing with any of the players over there, I know my limits. When I do eventually play, I will also be playing villains, not heroes so it is a completely moot point for me. As for me being bothered I don't have HO's, completely untrue. I have three, all still sitting in my trays. they mean nothing to me and I've offered them as rewards in several competitions or to the people who provided the Kronos titan mission for the villains. Just turns out the people doing it didn't want them either!
I see all these HO's coming into circulation on Defiant and know that I will not be interested in running Hami raids and don't think enough players on Union would to make it feasible to do regularly. So, I came up with another way to help those on my server stay on an equal footing for the test events. It's also worth pointing out that I don't even know any of those who take part in the events other than in passing so the accusation I was offering to do this to enable myself or anyone else to cheat is way off the mark.
I'm sorry people have obviously taken this as me making an attack on Defiant and come out shooting but it was NOT an attack, it was merely me offering to do something for my server.
If it did come across as a bit defensive in my posts after the OP, it's worth noting Shannon's first reply has been edited since it was posted but was definitely having a dig at us on Union for NOT farming Hamidon.
To be honest Ive gotten the impression of 'more regular' PvPers to be kind of grim and jaded, too serious people, and this has put me off from Arena a lot. Ive only been to test server night once, it was fun bit, but mostly I felt there was nothing especially organised going on.
Im not really interested in coming to test server this night for instance.
I like the current 3vP tourney a lot, because it mixes experienced and inexperienced people with the events organised by experienced people. This I think, is the best way to promote pvp. It should be made a leaque, I say.
Compared to that, the enter-your-team competitions will inevitably turn into clicquey (how do you say it) things.
I don't have anything bad to say really, but some comments on this thread are severely misplaced..
EDIT: oh, and I can say for my part that all my 5 HOs are on Hammerfall which is my PvE toon. My PvP is toon is still lvl 40 so I cant use the HOs even.
No one on our server have even thought of doing something like that just for test server arena PvP, we wouldn't go that far for a victory.
You should also recognise that HOs aren't an auto I win button. There is no I win button in this game.
I can't help but to disagree what you have said in this thread.
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If it did come across as a bit defensive in my posts after the OP, it's worth noting Shannon's first reply has been edited since it was posted but was definitely having a dig at us on Union for NOT farming Hamidon.
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This is all i edited in whilst you was replying to my post.
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golgo eposure 33%end 33%heal would do on my heals but only save on endurance
ribosome exposure 33%end 20% dam res would save me putting any endurance slots on my armours and free them up for anything allowable but missing in my attacks
enzyme exposure 33%end 33 def debuff 33% tohit debuff would free up slots from my debuffer to have more in the attack slots
membrane exposure 20% defbuff 33%rechg red 33% tohit debuff i could have 3 slotted elude with 3 of them instead of 6 cant i? more slots elsewhere!
microfilament exposure 33% endred 33%jump 33% flight 33% run = more slots elsewhere and not so much in travel powers
cytoskeleton exposure 33%tohit 33%end red 20%def buff.
I think it will be harder to find people with spare hami's
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and was not having a dig in anyway at union not farming hamidon, if i did that i'd expect "well why dont you try organising it!" as a result.
I wasnt for the moment on the offensive even with my "defiant will pwn jo0 all" quip. Thats just harmless smacktalk also thats coming from someone who has more 50's plus other toons on union with 2 accounts than most anybody else.
Take what ya like the wrong way though! It didnt even go to my heart when ya called me juvenile i accept my juvenile behaviour the moment i start playing this 12+ game.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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You should also recognise that HOs aren't an auto I win button. There is no I win button in this game.
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I thought Imaginary was one, heheh. 
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You should also recognise that HOs aren't an auto I win button. There is no I win button in this game.
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I thought Imaginary was one, heheh.
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Imaginary is h4x get it right n00b 
HOs ftw
You can make some seriously fun and interesting builds with them, just wish there were more with recharge in them.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Well, now that im back and hooked on CoH again, i was kind of hoping to relive the hamidon memories, with another raid some time. Im too rusty to remember the technique,and I know the methods have moved on. However, lag aside, the raid was fun, so if someone organises it, i will be there!
Once a month would be fine? On farm status i think he could be downed in an hour and a half or something (including forming up... )
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Count me in for as many raids as there will be 
wanna get really alot? Go get an account on US servers, farm along dayly on HO's and copy your char at the end to EU server.. this includes all your shiny HO's.. gratz on PvP ok? 
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wanna get really alot? Go get an account on US servers, farm along dayly on HO's and copy your char at the end to EU server.. this includes all your shiny HO's.. gratz on PvP ok?
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shhhh
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Guys I sometimes really don't understand some things u complain about. HO abuse? Well if you are not up to raid hami cos u find it boring, it's up to you. I'm not embarrased to say I do it to meet old friends there, but mainly for the HO for PvP. And tbh, why is that bad? it gives a slight advantage to people that have them, and? So do the accolades. Then as I find completelly ridiculous farming a MI for 8 hours to get the archmage accolade, I complain about all those guys with it that PvP against me. And that can be said about geas of the kinds, or about the new accolade for those that have accomplished all the TFs... Since i think they are just a waste of time, it's not fair that others have it? The game is designed in a way that u get small awards for doing some tasks, and that appeals for people in Union and Defiant. If u don't want to raid hami and get ur HO it's cool, but then don't blame people that actually bother and do it if they have slightly better enhanced powers just because u are not up to do what they did to achieve that
Not that I have much of an interest in it as I don't really do PvP, but I certainly consider this 'duping' method to be nothing but cheating.
Farming Hami for HO's is NOT cheating as they're putting the effort needed to get the HO's. But copying to test, putting them into storage, and repeating ad nauseam until you're fully slotted with them IS cheating, pure and simple.
If people want to go ahead and do such a thing then fine, but they will mostly likely kill the cross-community PvP matches on the test server; people don't like to play with cheaters.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
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The thing that strikes me in all this... there are a few people saying "Union's not interested in farming Hami," but it's really just the same few people saying it. I think it's quite possible that it would be more true to say "the current and past raid leaders are not interested in farming Hami." I know that I, for one, would happily come along if there were regular raids. I've missed all the past ones because I have a rather irregular schedule, but if they were frequent, I'd have a much better chance of getting to a good few of them. I can't take a leadership role because of my schedule, and because I just don't make much of a leader, but you could count me in for 90 minutes of my time every couple of weeks, if the raids are really starting to get that short.
It'd be interesting to see how many other people would happily come along to more frequent raids. If there's interest (and I suspect there would be - it seems like plenty of people show up for the Defiant ones, and the two servers aren't really all that different), then it would just be a matter of finding a few people for the leading roles who are happy to do this a little more often. I suspect that more people who'd like to try leading teams and raids would show up if we had a few more, as well. People would get involved, and become interested in helping organise.
As it is, I've been levelling characters on Defiant and was thinking I'd start heading to their raids once I'm high enough. I'd really rather get some of my Union toons a few HOs, though, and I know the Union community better and would rather see us having community events than going along to a Defiant one where I know very few people.
From my point of view, I've led UnionU taunt teams and taken part in a couple of raids and can say why the same people don't tend to lead raids on Union.
Union has a bit of a problem with the organisation of these. We've had some great raid leaders with great team leaders helping them, we've had some very extensive raid guides written with any questions raised answered well in advance. Then, come raid night, most of the raiders turn up without their coloured costumes, capes flapping and aura's blazing and you see broadcast and local full of 'Where do I go?', 'What do I do?'.
I can completely understand why no one on Union wants to run more than one of these. Why should people put in the effort of trying to lead them when those who want to benefit from the raid can't even be bothered to follow instructions and read a guide in advance?
There's also the frequent 'Ha ha ha, <raid leader> is doing it wrong. All follow me and attack here instead'. Yet you never see these people attempting to organise raids with their 'superior' knowledge on how it should be done.
The sad thing is, those who would turn up to 90 minute raids and be happy to get their HO's are likely to be the same people who tried to disrupt the time consuming early raids when they weren't getting the reults they wanted as quick as they wanted.
I've thought of running one myself and may one day do one. The only reasons for me doing it though will just be for the achievement at the end of it, not because it's my idea of fun.
In reality though, I will probably never bother because I don't think the sense of achievement would outweigh the aggravation that goes with it.
The more raids you do, the easier it gets. The problem with running them as irregularly as Union does currently is that at each raid there are a large number of people turning up to their first raid. New raiders tend to be more disruptive than seasoned raiders. If they were run once a month the proportion of "uneducated" raiders would decrease raid by raid. You will still get disruptive know-it-alls who'll try and hijack the attention of the raiders but their numbers do decrease with time. On Defiant now there is a sizeable number of experienced raiders who know exactly what their role is. Having a large group of people moving in the right direction during the raid tends to rub off on those new raiders who are willing to learn. As an outsider looking in, it would appear to me that the only thing holding you guys on Union back from doing regular, successful raids is the fact that you're not doing regular raids.
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IF i were to go in for this event I would do it with my scrapper (Mr ?) who despite organising/running a few successful raids has the grand total of Zero HO's (my warshade has them all). If you really think that this is the way to go then i am right in not doing pvp and antics like this will do nothing to encourage new players to try it out.
sorry, but i had to get it out of my system.
Just so I'm clear here, the aim of this exploit would be to kit yourselves out with HOs for PvP events on the Test Server?
If so, I would humbly suggest that you may well end up killing cross-server PvP events. Those players who either can't be bothered to so the same, or have moral objections to exploits, might simply withdraw from any future events.
It will also mean that we'll have to think long and hard about any future 'official' PvP events on test where there are prizes involved. As I said during S4, we can (and did) check a character's slotting, but it's a fairly time-consuming process for any event that involves large numbers of players at the same time.
Personally, I wouldn't get any satisfaction from winning a PvP battle due to HOs rather than my own skill, but I appreciate that I'm what many would regard as a 'casual' PvP player.
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If so, I would humbly suggest that you may well end up killing cross-server PvP events. Those players who either can't be bothered to so the same, or have moral objections to exploits, might simply withdraw from any future events.
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That's pretty much what I said B... TBH, now the idea's on the loose, there will be players who will no longer trust that their oponents haven't tried this, and so has probably already damaged such events. Way to go... 
I'm no fan of PvP, but I'd find it rather sad if this is the case. Cross-server events were meant to be FUN!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Well seeing as the level bump for the test of RV was immense fun for a non-PvPer such as myself i think that would work instead.
Just have your character copied over at level 1 and bump them up to whatever level.
Also all the badges they have aquired should stay the same as it means Villains will have access to their patron powers
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If so, I would humbly suggest that you may well end up killing cross-server PvP events. Those players who either can't be bothered to so the same, or have moral objections to exploits, might simply withdraw from any future events.
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That's pretty much what I said B... TBH, now the idea's on the loose, there will be players who will no longer trust that their oponents haven't tried this, and so has probably already damaged such events. Way to go...
I'm no fan of PvP, but I'd find it rather sad if this is the case. Cross-server events were meant to be FUN!
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I dont think that is new tbh. Ive always been aware of unlimited hami o's and the only thing stopping me was lazyiness .
Im pretty sure though that there are a number of people that have already done such a process (maybe just afew times, not fully decked out) but that is there perogative.
I dont think it would ruin the fun considering the very nature of pvp being more paper, scissors, stone than actually reliant on skill (might have changed abit more now with the recent changes i.e. toggledropping). Those that do enhance themselves with Hami O's make themselves more powerful but not god like so they are undefeatable. Heck it even makes it more fun to actually beat them.
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We 8man'd the first night, and one or two times after that. And we Pentad'd every Pentad night from when they started.
And my comment about whining was made in haste, for the most part the people that turned up were all great. Just in my opinion some people where taking it a tad too seriously, we played for fun and when people start arguing about whether or not Tactic A was 'fair' or not kinda takes the fun out. In my opinion, if a tactic stops an entire team in one fight, I'll think about it and come back the week after with a counter. Not complain because we couldn't do anything about it.
And yes, we disliked (and still do) the toggle knock changes because, in practice, they're too far. At least in our opinion, but it's not why we 'left'.
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As I recall there was 1 night when Defiant managed to bring a pentad team.
You say that people calling tactics 'unfair' took the fun out of it for you. Did you ever consider that ganking a team without a kin or invul for 10 minutes using tp and force bub in the office map was not fun for them? Yes, I agree that the complaining was lame, and I certainly didn't complain myself, but relentlessy ganking for 10 minutes is not the spirit that the Union team ever played the event in. If we are ever comfortably winning we ease off and target the tanks/scrappers more to keep the match fun for both teams.
I don't want to fuel any more arguments. What I actually want is the level of attendance on monday nights to rise again. The last few weeks have produced 2 full teams which is almost pointless (I forgot this monday unfortunately ) and decent PvP is becomming difficult to come by.
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You say that people calling tactics 'unfair' took the fun out of it for you. Did you ever consider that ganking a team without a kin or invul for 10 minutes using tp and force bub in the office map was not fun for them? Yes, I agree that the complaining was lame, and I certainly didn't complain myself, but relentlessy ganking for 10 minutes is not the spirit that the Union team ever played the event in. If we are ever comfortably winning we ease off and target the tanks/scrappers more to keep the match fun for both teams.
I don't want to fuel any more arguments. What I actually want is the level of attendance on monday nights to rise again. The last few weeks have produced 2 full teams which is almost pointless (I forgot this monday unfortunately ) and decent PvP is becomming difficult to come by.
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Just for clarification here, for the people who don't know what Gatling is talking about, it wasn't the Defiant team that pulled the Office map/Force Bubble tactic, it was one of the French teams afaik. We just got a bit miffed when people started complaining about Bubblers in Broadcast/Arena. That's all.
As for the Monday night turnout, I guess it's been a mix of problems lately that prevented people from showing up. I'll be there in two weeks again, as I have to work evenings this week and next week. I'll cya then.
ps. If anyone prefers to not fight a bubbler, I can always field 2 different flavours of Blaster.(both have Hami-O's )
This is an exploit and i can't really see the Devs letting you get away with it, especially since you have just revealed your plans on their forums.
Maybe if you kept it a secret you might have gotten away with it.
I personally wouldn't like to risk having my account suspended just to be that little bit tougher.
And what do you get from winning? Bragging rights? ....What is the point in them if you cheated to get them?