How to bring Fly as a viable PvP travel power.
By
davidg_EU,
Posted on: 2006-05-10 10:39 in Everything about PvP
IR goggle and a few CMs and go fly around above the base to target villains 
Use a dropout to launch your attack, i am quite happy with Fly. I use those 30min temp powers to get SJ & Stealth, having SS & fly as travel powers. Though ttue, in PvP they might cut back the end-usage since its not the safest power to use anymore (SJ is way faster to get away), wich was main reason in PvE why it had more end-usage.
True, SJ (in combo Hurdle/CJ) is imho a bit overpowered, the easy way to get out of battles is far too easy imho. So true, add way more -jump effects in immobilize powers, would make it more even.
As for KB protection, its the balance of the AT. Fire is overall more powerfull in offence and has selfheal, likewise the elec brute has ranged superpower, end-drainer. Other then those 2, iirc no other AT has no KB protection.
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Strange, I found fly more useful in PvP than SJ. Previously I couldn't touch most toons, they'd jump in, hit me, then fly off, it was really irritating.
Now I can fly after them, and Air Superiority them down again (sometimes), and then we can play.
I was experimenting while playing with Skull Bender, my level 50 controller, earlier this morning. I was very suprised to see how much of a boost Power Boost gave to fly and superspeed! I should get him SJ and see if if affects that too. Very nice little power there.
Most things that -fly also seem to -jump, for the most part. SJ I was always ground bound because of some [censored] throwing out caltrops or glue arrow or something. Wasn't fun. Why don't my resistances resist that? Perhaps -fly/jump should be resistable with the immob type resistances. Sigh..
Shrug.
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Perhaps -fly/jump should be resistable with the immob type resistances. Sigh..
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Now you are onto something here, that would solve a lot of problems!
But if you are 'going up' from a SJ jump and get a glue arrow, you wont be dropt down dont you? likewise caltrops you need to be on that place. And even if your -jump will trigger, i asume by speed/height you will fall down far outside the range of the attacker.
As far i know, flying and getting hold, will drop your straight down instead of the SJ 'flying down'.
And how can you ever get the speed to keep up a SJ'er? Even 3 slot fly-spd and powerboost i'm not able to catch up a SJ'ing stalker (or added boostrange).
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I'm currently considering what to do with my scrapper, wether or no to urn her into a True PvP build or a PvE build.
Currently she's a sem-borked PvE/PvP build.
Here are some of my observations in PvP
Lost Pob currently has fly, mainly for air sup, a great attack which I love in PvE on a melee characture.
I also picked up the SJ temp power while in sirens call
Fly is still good for getting around safely in PvP zones However it's too slow and costly to chase down other poeple and keep in melee range (esp as so many use SS)
SJ ment I could keep up with SS's more eaisly and chase them down (esp thoes stalkers) however trying to stay in melee range is a total (censored)
The main benefit I can see for SJ over fly (for a melee characture) is CJ and arcobatics, 2 cheap toggles you can run which will not realy require any slots and will decrease the chance of an important toggle being droped by an attack.
Fly + SS is awesome, Stalk uses it with great success 
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
yea fly sucks in PVP, definately needs a buff 
fly against ss = the speeder if he have no web grenade or impale then the speeder can do nothing.
Sj can make you try one hit or two but no way to follow a runner that go up with the bird.
and a Sjumper is useless in case of flying fight.
fly is like hover for some second after an attack? yes as it is for a speeder.
it's low compared to sj or ss? yes but it's strengh is not in it's speed.
fly in my mind is very viable in PvP
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fly against ss = the speeder if he have no web grenade or impale then the speeder can do nothing.
Sj can make you try one hit or two but no way to follow a runner that go up with the bird.
and a Sjumper is useless in case of flying fight.
fly is like hover for some second after an attack? yes as it is for a speeder.
it's low compared to sj or ss? yes but it's strengh is not in it's speed.
fly in my mind is very viable in PvP
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Thing is, a -Fly power completely nullifies it as a travel power. An immob doesn't do the same to SS if they've Immob protection or a Break Free. Couple the end usage, which is a bit high in my opinion, and the fact that it's supression is abhorent and it's got my thumbs down.
I love fly, it's my favourite power, what I don't love is being slowed to basically a stand still for a few seconds while fighting, and if I'm chaining attacks together, I'm simply a sitting target.
I also find fly much more useful than SJ, but not by itself. My blaster uses mainly superspeed and fly to get around and I like it. Fly allows to me to attack anyone, anywhere, while superspeed provides me the speed to chase and escape. edit: combined with combat jumping to avoid getting stuck. 
Although Flys uses become apparent in the pvp zones, in arena its not nearly as useful.
Well, Fly IMO can be a fantastic in PvP. I certainly know, playing as my Stalker (SJ), Flyers are just pure annoying. No AS unless I get a temp power than lets me fly. There are very few Flying/Hovering Brutes/Stalkers, so you can probably stay away from most of them. Also, it's a good hit and run thing, you can fly in overhead, one shot, the fly off, while they're crazily looking around their screen to see what killed them.
On my Fire/Kin Corruptor, I am actually speccing IN to Fly. He has TP atm, but I personally don't find this that useful for following people, only running away. With fly, I will be able to harness the full potential of 3 stacked Siphon Speed, so probably near enough teleport, and a hell of a lot easier to use, even though my TP was Binded to a Push-n-Click mechanism.
Pretty much anything has use in PvP, we just have to find them.
Look at when Stalkers arrived in the zones. People couldn't STOP moaning (well, not much changed reeaaally), but now we deal with em.
Just practice and you will pwn tehm.
Heh, what I don't understand is how Fly is a viable PvE travel power but not a viable PvP travel power. It actually has advantages when in PvP but none in PvE.
World of Jackcraft.
Care to list the advantages Fly has in PvP?
with fly u can get away very easy and u can launch attacks without being seen, what more advantages do u need?
never ever take just fly as a travel power for PVP put with other travel powers it has moments of magic, theres soooo many -fly powers in the game for a reason...
I've actually seen fly used to devastating effect by a trio of blasters in sirens. With very little by way of vertical combat and the distance penalties related to perception, someone with fly and stealth is a lot harder to see than someone with SS or SJ.
If you go near the ground while in a battle, chances are someone there will see you and attack you. If you're flying high over the battle, it's unlikely they will go after you even if they can see you. Besides, if they do, you should be high enough to fly out of the range of any attackers or SJ'ers very quickly.
Now, back to those three blasters. I have no idea how they had their powers slotted but I suspect they all had snipe slotted with an extra range, 3 damage and 2 accuracy. All three had fly and stealth (one of them may also have had another group stealth power such as grant invis or something).
Basically, while everyone was fighting below, one of these was picking targets and all 3 would hit build up and snipe the same target at the same time before running. 9 times out of 10, the target faceplanted and as soon as they had stealth kick back in, they were back and repeating the tactic.
I don't think I saw these guys die once and they were getting bounty kills all over the shop. One of the most effective uses of PvP teamwork and fly that I've seen in a long while.
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Care to list the advantages Fly has in PvP?
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Hmm.. how about:
Switch on fly
target enemy
click follow
queue bonesmasher
FLY
360degree escape movement
able to build defiance
Fly stalkers are not pleasant
everywhere is accessable
not prone to a "double hop" back to where u began like tp if too fast to activate.
people rarely watch the skys when looking for rogue assaults
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
My gripe with fly is that its to slow for my liking and can be negated by a lot of powers...
There are a lot of -fly powers out there, aswell as fly is effected by slow powers to.
for example.A flyer (with ss) who is hit by snow storm has barely any escape, as your horizontal movement is extremely limited, and you no longer have that 360degree movement as you can no longer fly. Whereas with leaping you can still escape with SJ.
There are much less -jump powers in PvP aswell as leaping is a great back up power to have when slowed. As a squishy leaping pool also leads to acrobatics which imho i rate above the pool above flight.
Personally I find leaping pool is the best way to go for PvP.
But hey thats my 2 cents.
6 slotted hover was always great movement, but three slotted hover is just to slow unless you have power boost or AM or siphon speed.
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My gripe with fly is that its to slow for my liking and can be negated by a lot of powers...
There are a lot of -fly powers out there, aswell as fly is effected by slow powers to.
for example.A flyer (with ss) who is hit by snow storm has barely any escape, as your horizontal movement is extremely limited, and you no longer have that 360degree movement as you can no longer fly. Whereas with leaping you can still escape with SJ.
There are much less -jump powers in PvP aswell as leaping is a great back up power to have when slowed. As a squishy leaping pool also leads to acrobatics which imho i rate above the pool above flight.
Personally I find leaping pool is the best way to go for PvP.
But hey thats my 2 cents.
6 slotted hover was always great movement, but three slotted hover is just to slow unless you have power boost or AM or siphon speed.
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nah snowstorm is fun, u get hit, u just placate them, admittedly it is against nature to hunt out the perpetrator as opposed to trying to run but it works well, ask Window Licker
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
Heh, what I don't understand is how Fly is a viable PvE travel power but not a viable PvP travel power. It actually has advantages when in PvP but none in PvE.
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You can fly to a mish while scratching your...
It's the lazy man's power
I find the -fly effects are just to powerful sometimes, but then thats all down to having messy secondary effects..The whole lot need a tidy up.
Idealy in Pvp I would prefer to run Fly+SS or Fly+TP, just so I can make best use of my blasters powers, and like others have said utilise a lot of peoples natural blindspots ..Oh and to chase down perps..
I am a big supporter of "Falcon" tactics for blasters...The sky is for killing, the ground is for fun
Despite flys lack of actual aerial speed, I would have to say it is the most stable and versatile of all the powers. True, its hungry for some initial slotting, but its my fave out of the lot.
-fly is still a bit overpowered, in my opinion.
I say this and I say it again.
Nothing is really, truly overpowered. Sure, maybe for a while, but there's always a way to get out of it.
If people couldn't have -fly, then I believe fly would be one of the best travels for PvP.
I think PvP is like a really complicated game of Rock Scissors Paper... Some ATs/Buils beat others, and some are perfect for almost any situation.
True enough, but why I land a -fly on someone with mez supression, they dont seem to have their SJ ability removed for more than a few seconds, and this isnt enhancable. (gravity power : lift)
If I face an opponent with super speed, and they have mez resist, landing an immob doesnt really effect their ability to wave at me from the horizon whilst their yellow motion-streak catches up to them.
And yet, why does it seem that every time Air Suppression is used, the target is grounded for what seems like an absurd amount of time? I can apppreciate that there are some who dont have the ranged attacks to effect a hover/flyer, but does the -fly have to last that long?
The funny thing is, I do recall being Air Sup'd by a few people ages ago, and the effects werent nearly as long. In fact the effect was about right, it gave them long enough to pound on me, but not so long that I was forced to sit there for a fortnight whilst they brawled through my PFF. Now, Air Sup appears to ground me for a good weekend..
So, my foggy little mind asks this : Is it possible to enhance -fly? Or is it possible that the effectiveness of -fly increases dramatically as that characters level gets higher? Why doesnt a breakfree counter -fly and -jump?
Then again, people with mez resist seem to be able to SJ/SS even when I land a hit-but-resisted immob (slow), or a -fly (grav control : lift), but the fliers still appear to be grounded? Are my observations off, or is fly just easier to cancel out than the others?
Little rant i guess.
Fly is slow compared to SJ or SS but you get there eventually. The end cost is too much but once you get SO it can be acceptable.
What the problem you ask, well as far as Fly is reguarded as a PvE travel power, nothing sir. But if you look at it as a PvP travel power it is mediocre.
It hate the fact that in this game, there are builds for PvP and builds for PvE. Why would you have to pick up the FOTM builds to be viable in PvP and compete with everyone? Nothing new though, a lot of online rpgs are like this, there are always better builds that suit a PvP style of gameplay.
Right now, it feels like if anyone sneeze at me by accident i can't fly anymore, whereas with SJ i am golden.
Maybe add more -jump in more attacks to bring SJ on par with Fly in PvP?
What is everyone thoughts on Fly, is it "ok", or do you avoid picking this power for your PvP toons.
I could go on ask why not every melee archetypes have toggles with knockback defenses and are forced to take the leaping pool.