Isn't the point that a Tanker is supposed to grab the aggro from the moment s/he gets into aggro range of the mobs, rather than just from the point he or she attacks them? Mobs are supposed to spot the tanker, focus on him, take the alpha strike.
Whoops just tested it tonight...Invis DOES block Invince-voke.
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Whoops just tested it tonight...Invis DOES block Invince-voke.
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...Haven't I been saying that for months? 
Sheesh. Men.
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Whoops just tested it tonight...Invis DOES block Invince-voke.
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...Haven't I been saying that for months?
Sheesh. Men.
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I have never tested it because i simply have never needed to disprove it.
Tanker auras from what i can gather
Chilling embrace - taunt autohit
Mudpots taunt - autohit(small window of no taunt duration)
Invincible taunt - autohit
Blazing aura - gauntlet(small window of no gauntlet duration)
You can not steal aggro from a taunted foe without taunt, some foes can be unaffected by taunt for a duration and taunt duration lasts less and less longer the higher the level of foe you face. To get aggro from a tanker the foe has to become no longer taunted. Gauntlet apparently scales with the size of the amount of damage in the attack and is extremely short in duration (like a couple of seconds but seems to me secondary effects could elongate this) its almost more of "a turn around and hit me instead power".
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Whoops just tested it tonight...Invis DOES block Invince-voke.
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Up until the point you attack and become visible?
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Whoops just tested it tonight...Invis DOES block Invince-voke.
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...Haven't I been saying that for months?
Sheesh. Men.
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I have never tested it because i simply have never needed to disprove it.
Tanker auras from what i can gather
Chilling embrace - taunt autohit
Mudpots taunt - autohit(small window of no taunt duration)
Invincible taunt - autohit
Blazing aura - gauntlet(small window of no gauntlet duration)
You can not steal aggro from a taunted foe without taunt, some foes can be unaffected by taunt for a duration and taunt duration lasts less and less longer the higher the level of foe you face. To get aggro from a tanker the foe has to become no longer taunted. Gauntlet apparently scales with the size of the amount of damage in the attack and is extremely short in duration (like a couple of seconds but seems to me secondary effects could elongate this) its almost more of "a turn around and hit me instead power".
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after testing today invincible taunt has a window too, all windows close with 1 taunt slot (hence i never knew) and the aoe effect of invincible looks to be the same as mudpots.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Whoops just tested it tonight...Invis DOES block Invince-voke.
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...Haven't I been saying that for months?
Sheesh. Men.
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I just thought it was my leet aggro grabbing skills
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You can not steal aggro from a taunted foe without taunt
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Again, untrue. Try the DE Devourer's, they will run back and forth between the two highest 'vokers. Be they taunt or damage. Stase and me used to play ping-pong with them. (Inv/Clw Scrapper and En/En Blaster)
As Bridger has said, TAUNT paralyses aggro. You can lock someone onto you using TAUNT for the duration, but Taunt in Invince-voke, Gauntlet or any of the other 'vokes just increases the aggro.
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You can not steal aggro from a taunted foe without taunt
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Again, untrue. Try the DE Devourer's, they will run back and forth between the two highest 'vokers. Be they taunt or damage. Stase and me used to play ping-pong with them. (Inv/Clw Scrapper and En/En Blaster)
As Bridger has said, TAUNT paralyses aggro. You can lock someone onto you using TAUNT for the duration, but Taunt in Invince-voke, Gauntlet or any of the other 'vokes just increases the aggro.
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i cant see how you have unconfirmed what i have said. You can not pull from a "taunted" foe without taunt.
"Yes, any 'taunt' effect will overide aggro caused by damage for the duration of the taunt." - Bridger
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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You can not steal aggro from a taunted foe without taunt
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Again, untrue. Try the DE Devourer's, they will run back and forth between the two highest 'vokers. Be they taunt or damage. Stase and me used to play ping-pong with them. (Inv/Clw Scrapper and En/En Blaster)
As Bridger has said, TAUNT paralyses aggro. You can lock someone onto you using TAUNT for the duration, but Taunt in Invince-voke, Gauntlet or any of the other 'vokes just increases the aggro.
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I think you are wrong on this Silver Weasel. Anything that takes taunt enhances ( [almost] all tanker secondary powers and the tanker primary powers ) will use the same taunt mechanic as the Taunt power.
I think the ping pong you are referring to is because the taunt duration for the enemy you are fighting on Scrapper Invincibilty is less than the tick rate.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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I think the ping pong you are referring to is because the taunt duration for the enemy you are fighting on Scrapper Invincibilty is less than the tick rate.
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I don't know what a "tick rate" is 
, but I'm inclined to believe that the Devourers are bugged.
I've not slotted Invincibility for taunt, yet I can keep any and all mobs (save Devourers) taunted for the duration of the fight. This includes AVs (which do take slightly longer to go down than bosses ).
Only the Devourers will run backwards and forwards between me and Weasel.
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I don't know what a "tick rate" is , but I'm inclined to believe that the Devourers are bugged.
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Tick rate in this case means: that invincibility will fire an autohit PBAoE taunt every 1 seconds. The tick rate thus is 1/sec. (well at least with tanks its 1 sec, dunno about scrappers but Id imagine it being the same).
EDIT: and btw, I agree with Shannon, you cant really pull a taunted enemy off a tanker unless with another tanker taunt. Except if the taunt duration in question wears off (enemies may have high taunt resistance) or the tanker exceeds aggro cap. The duration of scrapper taunt may be short enough for something weird to happen..
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I don't know what a "tick rate" is , but I'm inclined to believe that the Devourers are bugged.
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Tick rate in this case means: that invincibility will fire an autohit PBAoE taunt every 1 seconds. The tick rate thus is 1/sec. (well at least with tanks its 1 sec, dunno about scrappers but Id imagine it being the same).
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Ohkay, I think I understand this just enough to not look like a complete fool when it comes up in conversation again. Just, don't ask me to explain it to anyone .
Thanks for the explaination.
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Only the Devourers will run backwards and forwards between me and Weasel.
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Perhaps Devourers are resistant to taunt. None of my tankers have problems with them but they tend to put out a lot more taunting ( punchvoke, stronger Auras and the occasional taunt power ) that an /Inv scrapper would.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Carni, if you're having trouble with agro going in the wrong places, ask ducktor to 'tone it down' on his costumes. If he's dressing like he used to, he's gonna be taunting their eyes from miles away!
The thing was that your own point was under contest. Whilst it is impossible to pull agro from someone that is TAUNTed for that duration as TAUNT paralyzes agro, any 'vokes CAN be overriden simply by stacking more 'vokes on top of them. Also TAUNT on it's own doesn't build agro (though Invince/Gauntlet do if used during the TAUNT period).
Hence, TAUNTed foes are held in agro during the TAUNT period, unless a similar TAUNT is used against them.
Foes that have been TAUNTed but are no longer in the TAUNT duration may be aggroed by anyone generating more 'vokes, OR by the TAUNTer moving out of effective range.
Basically, TAUNT paralyses agro's effects, 'vokes build aggro. Once TAUNT is done, highest 'vokes get the aggro.
This is what has lead to the problem in 8 man teams with one TAUNTer trying to hold the agro. (See Rain of Fire/Ice)
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Doesn't it provide 12% defense across the board?
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Then the purple patch came. If Iirc its less than 5% now.
A Paragon Defender
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Doesn't it provide 12% defense across the board?
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Then the purple patch came. If Iirc its less than 5% now.
[/ QUOTE ]Purple patch was not power-related, but enemy-related. The thing that screwed defence was GDN
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The thing was that your own point was under contest. Whilst it is impossible to pull agro from someone that is TAUNTed for that duration as TAUNT paralyzes agro, any 'vokes CAN be overriden simply by stacking more 'vokes on top of them. Also TAUNT on it's own doesn't build agro (though Invince/Gauntlet do if used during the TAUNT period).
Hence, TAUNTed foes are held in agro during the TAUNT period, unless a similar TAUNT is used against them.
Foes that have been TAUNTed but are no longer in the TAUNT duration may be aggroed by anyone generating more 'vokes, OR by the TAUNTer moving out of effective range.
Basically, TAUNT paralyses agro's effects, 'vokes build aggro. Once TAUNT is done, highest 'vokes get the aggro.
This is what has lead to the problem in 8 man teams with one TAUNTer trying to hold the agro. (See Rain of Fire/Ice)
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My point was never under contest. I have already stated in this post (please read back) that a taunted foe can only be taken by someone else by taunt. So you in a funny way are telling me something i have already told you. Here is what i have told you:
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i cant see how you have unconfirmed what i have said. You can not pull from a "taunted" foe without taunt.
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"Yes, any 'taunt' effect will overide aggro caused by damage for the duration of the taunt." - Bridger
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Punchvoke (gauntlets, what tanks have) ARE taunt effects. One taunt effect has to be higher in taunt duration to overcome another.
If its taunted its taunted. Some foes can resist taunt because they may have assault and some may have phaseshift and become untauntable for a period. Some wont goto the tanker due to a fear element like in burn, you cant pull to a burn patch.
about scatter powers (repel, repel+fear or knockback) and how from my observations how they may steal aggro:
Mudpot aura taunt pulse ticks say every 2 seconds, has a duration which lasts 1.5 secs unslotted.
1 second after aura taunt pulse a scatter power is used causing some sort of dispersion.
1.5 seconds after aura the taunt duration wears off, foes are now untaunted and will go for the caster of the dispersion power (rain of fire for example).
2 seconds after first aura taunt pulse a new taunt pulse is cast by the tanker. Only those within aura will be taunted.
Because there is a scatter its unlikely a tanker can taunt them all using aura alone hence aggro tends to be lost. The moment rain of fire is over the mobs got for the fire blaster unless they are affected by taunt, but because they are everywhere and aura taunt has to tick on all the foes and last long enough a duration for when rain of fire ends. Some foes may reach the blaster as its simply too difficult to run around all the foes and get a long enough aura tick on all of them just before rain of fire ends.
Taunt duration from a punch (punchvoke or gauntlet) small aoe around foe MAX 5 hit will be taunted for something like 1.5 secs or slightly more due to size of damage and/or possibly secondary effect duration. The higher the level of foe the lower the duration from my observations as a lvl 2 tanker smacking levels 2-6. I hit a lvl 6 and immediately after a lvl 5 hit the lvl 6, the lvl 5 got the aggro.
Auras have to renew their taunt ticks every so often and base duration of the taunt is slightly less than these intervals allowing a window for aggro to be taken. Took me 3 snapshots to slowly egg a foe from an afk invuln tanker (unslotted for taunt) showing just how fast invincible ticks and how small the window was, the nearer to the circumference of the aura the more chance i had of stealing the foe as it takes the foe less time to get away from the tanker.
Taunt lasts the longest and from what i have seen looks like it could differ in duration like all taunts depending on level of enemy being faced to tanker. The higher the level and "possibly" and/or rank of foe the lower the duration. The higher the AV i have kited in the past the more frequent i seemed to of had to taunt.
If your a tanker and you team with another tanker playing tennis with an AV, you can try deleting your taunt enhancements whilst the other one keeps theirs and have both of you taunting the AV together. I am sure the one with the greatest taunt duration wins.
When there is no taunt involved the one with the highest damage wins the aggro but if the person doesnt continue attacking after a period of time the aggro can be stolen by someone using a less damaging attack.
This is all from observations, i am not stating facts. I am still looking for answers but i am sure that if its taunted its taunted and no amount of damage will pull a foe under a taunt duration.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Carni, if you're having trouble with agro going in the wrong places, ask ducktor to 'tone it down' on his costumes. If he's dressing like he used to, he's gonna be taunting their eyes from miles away!
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Hiya Essell. Long time no see. Actually I haven't seen Ducktor online either for a while.
Although I've been off without Internet for the last 6 weeks anyway. Boo.
Pfft!! tanks are the toons of yesteryear
they get hammered in PvP
They hate invis and KB powers so go for them 
BTW Shannon, I missed that the first time, but re-read my post with TAUNT meaning 'the Taunt Power' and taunt/'voke meaning 'any other aggro inducing powers'. Then it should make more sense.
TAUNT Freezes Aggro, taunt builds aggro.
damage induces aggro did you mean that? i'm lost quite frankly, all i said if something is "taunted its taunted and no other type of aggro enducing effect can over ride it except a taunt", if it looks like its been over rided by another non taunt effect then the taunt duration isnt there, simple as.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Taunt's are by the Taunt Power.
'Vokes (that also Taunt) are by proximity, visibility, power activation etc.
The Taunt power freezes agro, apart from oddities like Greater/Lesser Devoured; but Invince/CE etc. 'vokes; so you can take a creature that has been taunted once it's outside of the Taunt duration; but not whilst it's in the Taunt duration.
It's a small caveat, but it is important, and it only works AFTER the critter has finished the move they are in the animation of doing.
For instance, if a Hellion was draing his gun on a Blaster and the Tanker successfully Taunted the Hellion; he would still shoot the Blaster and gain agro from any subsidiary 'vokes around him. Taunt starts from the moment the Tanker activates taunt. Once the taunt is over, he will turn to the person who has 'voked him the most in the mean time; USUALLY the Tanker (due to Gauntlet/Invince etc.); but heavy power spam will pull him away from the Taunter.
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(Inv has only one aura that taunts, and it's not a powerful one, where Stone, Fire or Ice for example have multiple, some really good ones).
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Stone's the only tanker set I'm at all familiar with, and even there I haven't quite reached SO levels.
But...multiple taunt auras? Stone had Mud Pots, certainly, but what else is there?
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Ah, well originally that didn't have 'have multiple' in there,
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Checking back to your OP, yes, it did - and still does. (Unless you did an unmarked edit to add it, which IMHO still counts.
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Oops, I meant my first write (pre-post), then I remembered that Invince was the only one for Invuln, so put 'multiple' in the others, without considering that they might not have such
It was along the lines of 'have some really good ones', up until I posted it.