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A plant dominator? Great in PvE, pretty gimped in PvP compared to Ice or mind.
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Seeing as arguably the best PvP Dominator on Union is a Plant/Thorns, you might want to check that statement. On paper, I agree with you; in action, it's somewhat a different matter.
Of course, powerset selection runs secondary to player ability.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Thanks for all the fun everyone that attended and took part its not the winning but the taking part 
Villain are far behind but given time they will catch up. next time i plan to take in my villain like brave max
All those taking part on the VG/SG Leader channel were involved and asked there opinion on the format changes and agreed with them, including your VG leader Toughguy.
I am glad we mixed the teams in the end as Max Powerz showed the gulf between heroes and villains is not as wide as some people expect and that the extra slots available to the heroes could have made things a bit more even, if villains had them. I think we made the best of the situation on the night.
This was the first time anyone has tried to do something like this outside of S4(which had months of planning) and while there were clearly problems, those who were understanding and patient are thanked for their co-operation.
We've seen the wrinkles and I feel it was far from a failure. I for one learned a hell of a lot just by watching one or two matches.
With only 4 hero teams there at the start, we had the choice of continuing as a straight knockout. This would have left the Heroes who had been preparing since it's announcement only guaranteed one match, two at best and only a maximum of 3 matches for the villains.
After consulting with the relevant VG/SG leaders it was agreed we would change the format so people who had arrived would get more matches due to the low turnout.
I'm sorry some people felt they wasted their time but I think we made the right decision in how it was run after we saw how many teams arrived. I certainly don't feel I wasted the 4 and a half hours I was stuck in there tying to organise it without a chance of any action for myself or Ronin, despite the fact it wasn't very enjoyable for either of us.
There was a VERY important reason for not taking teams in advance for this. It was NOT organised to give the big PvP groups a stage but was organised to try and get more casual players involved, which is why we were allowing people to meet up and form teams just before the event. Yes, it did not work out as I hoped with only a handful of teams like this but there were people there who had never really PvP'd before and they turned up, got a team and took part. Advance registration may be a better idea but there will ALWAYS be a delay at the start while we allow for latecomers before finally drawing the matches. Considering Ronin had to re-do the entire format and draw on the fly for over 20 matches, I think he done a great job.
I will be getting in touch with people to see how they think it can be improved and will chat with Ronin. Given the feedback on the forums, not too sure I will be prepared to give up another 5 hours of my play time though as it's been less than encouraging so far. I will get the feedback though and post how I would change it should someone else want to organise one in future.
Special mention once more to Max's team for doing the villains proud, Deluge's hastily cobbled together PuG who done pretty well considering they had never played together. Bitter Ice's team was also very impressive until they were knocked out with total domination of their group, only suffering one death in all 4 matches of the group stage. I think there is someone else as well... Oh that's right, Shaman X's team who actually won
Whether we arrange another one remains to be seen. After giving up 5 hours of my personal time, not too sure I'm prepared to do it again.
I do want to thank those who took part though. Some of the battles I did manage to actually watch when I got a spare minute or two made excellent viewing.
I disagree (with your opinion on villains and heros) and under the impression no matter what ya do, villains dont really stand a chance.
Now agree with what ya saying in terms of tactics but even if you had synergy and great team work, heros have enough diversity to easily counter anything you do.
So far theres no real way to prove otherwise but give it time. My money will be on the hero pentad team. Im not saying villains cant win (I am sure its possible to win against some heros with a very very specialised villain pentad team). I am just saying in my honest opinion dont expect a hero vs villain team to be balanced and a close fight. I would love for you to prove me wrong.
What some of the villains encountered today was some of the best pvpers on heros. Now most of the villains are not specialist pvp builds and are still learning the tricks of the trade so the results were slighlty biased.
Now I managed to have a close fight with a hero team. Like us I would say they were not specialised i.e. hand picked because of there builds. They were there for abit of fun. I think they would tell you we were not static, we were able to have a good tactical battle but only because of build deficiencies. Had they been more of a pvp build they would have destroyed us like most other hero teams did. Unless things change some what dramatically I dont see what the heros have to fear from villains.
Finally I would just like to say a big thanks for kinslayer and Ronin for giving up there time to host/organise it. I dont think people appreciate how difficult it is to do. Top job guys, dont be put off with some of the sour points (how long it took to finally get it going). The whole idea was to have a sort of community event. I am sure much was gained from doing it which will surely result in better organised events next time. Its a shame a number of teams pulled out (was disappointed not to see a Super Union team) but all that matters is I had fun 
Those that I spoke to had a great time. Im sure harsh lessons were learned (both organisers and fighers) but its only through initiatives like this that pvp on union will improve and prosper.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
I enjoyed playing villains in the Arena tonight, I hope they keep on PvPing and find out what does and doesn't work. Its good to see villains in PvP outside of the zones too 
I find your post very poorly placed. Your post seems make the discussion about the violators, which it really isn't, and the moment it will be I will not continue to discuss this subject anymore. Let that be very clear.
I am going to quote myself from the very post you replied to.
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Nonetheless, let's say the heroes really are balanced and simply are far more skilled: even then, make the leagues suited to this. Start with villain leagues and hero leagues, because us villains lack the skill to start off against heroes, apparently. Then the best of the villains can fight the best of the heroes. IMO, this would've been more fair and most importantly, more fun.
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As I stated in my post, I personally do NOT believe the villains are equal in skill to heroes. I however don't share your beliefs that it comes down to skill alone, and I do think there is a balance issue in play as well. Regardless, even if there is no balance issue and it does come down completely to skill, the leagues should still be divided accordingly. You don't let "clumsy villains" start off against "elite heroes". I am NOT the only one that was bothered by this, I can guarantee you.
Second, the violator team you speak off, I wasn't even in. Not to say mine did any better, I still won't discuss someone else's tactics.
My post wasn't about whining how much the villains got whooped. I spent a few lines on this subject to illustrate my point. My post was meant as constructive criticism on what I feel could be done better at this event. I stated the problems I had with the organisation, and offered a suggestion as to how this could be done otherwise.
Is this really such a bad thing? Because like it or not, people spent an HOUR waiting and this was not appreciated. In the environment I come from, it's normal to give feedback if you feel something went wrong, as long as the feedback isn't detrimental. As far as I can tell, this is what I did. Your response had little to do with my post or the original subject. If you want to discuss our poor PvP tactics with us you are more then welcome to, either in a new thread or via PM, but not here. Should you do so, please avoid phrases like "slower then my grandmother" because I think it adds little to the discussion.
I hope my post was better received my Kinslayer, Emperor Dragon and whoever else might have been in the organisation who's names I missed. It's not meant to take you guys down, it's just feedback.
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All those taking part on the VG/SG Leader channel were involved and asked there opinion on the format changes and agreed with them, including your VG leader Toughguy.
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I can appreciate that, but this post was personal feedback, so what Dr Death did or didn't agree to isn't really important.
Once again, I did not intend to take you guys down, I am merely giving feedback. If feedback on the downsides isn't appreciated I will just shut up. IMO however, if nobody opens his mouth about what didnt go right, things never improve.
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As I stated in my post, I personally do NOT believe the villains are equal in skill to heroes. I however don't share your beliefs that it comes down to skill alone, and I do think there is a balance issue in play as well. Regardless, even if there is no balance issue and it does come down completely to skill, the leagues should still be divided accordingly. You don't let "clumsy villains" start off against "elite heroes". I am NOT the only one that was bothered by this, I can guarantee you.
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as nothing like this has been done since S4 who wud decide who is "elite" and who is "clumsy"? i dont think many people wud like to be told "imo ur clumsy and will lose so go in this league please"
In all honesty at its current state, villans are not underpowerd as such, but Heroes has been around for a lot longer, therfore we have had the time to adjust, find out what works, and min/max, villans is still new to PVP and is still a child to a older game of COH
As others have clearly said. there will be a time when villans have sorted things out and it will become equal.
Heroes need to balence a team that works "as a team" to maximise DMG output, without a certain member of the team applying his skillset then im sure the effects wont be as devistating. - this again is somthing that Villans need to work on, and thus far im sure all AT's are not been using effectivly enough.
However.. the downside of the villans pendat is the fact that I an honestly say that it was 5 hero's V 4 Villas, as the MM's were pretty much out of the game with there pet setup, this is NOT a fault with the player but within the game mechanics. and this is due to change in issue7 Im sure.
PVP is everchanging, people always counter somthing that is working real well..then other peoples skills/builds change accordingly. its like fashion, whats in now will be out in a few months.. and what was out before will be dominating again..
As Shamen quite rightly said. there is somthing to be gained from a loss. work on it and re-apply
Dont give up hope yet, there are sure as hell plenty more options to try....
My advice to Any given villan group is to try things with heroes (arena) on maybe a weekly basis. fun/freindly team games that the heros side can offer comments back to what was working well, and why. - this way you can find out what really does/doesnt do well in area and build from it from there.
On a final note. Thanks to Kinslayer/Ronin for the tourney It was good fun, depsite the delays.
And Gratz on to Shamen X'd team winning at the end bah!
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My advice to Any given villan group is to try things with heroes (arena) on maybe a weekly basis. fun/freindly team games that the heros side can offer comments back to what was working well, and why. - this way you can find out what really does/doesnt do well in area and build from it from there.
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said brilliantly, i wud be more than happy to help out any villain teams that want to do this
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However.. the downside of the villans pendat is the fact that I an honestly say that it was 5 hero's V 4 Villas, as the MM's were pretty much out of the game with there pet setup, this is NOT a fault with the player but within the game mechanics. and this is due to change in issue7 Im sure.
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More like 5v3 imo
TBH i felt sorry for the stalkers. Against a team with an empath theres not much they can do from what I seen last night.
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However.. the downside of the villans pendat is the fact that I an honestly say that it was 5 hero's V 4 Villas, as the MM's were pretty much out of the game with there pet setup, this is NOT a fault with the player but within the game mechanics. and this is due to change in issue7 Im sure.
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More like 5v3 imo
TBH i felt sorry for the stalkers. Against a team with an empath theres not much they can do from what I seen last night.
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And you are wrong. The diferrence between the stealth cap and the perception cap is 10 yds. It doesnt matter how many cm's they have when you can add grant invis on the other side.
A Paragon Defender
OK, I've had some feed back from a few people regarding this and it seems there was mix up on the format change for the villain side.
All of the hero teams were asked about the change of format and agreed it but it seems a few teams were left out of the loop over on the villain side. Apologies for that.
Moving on, I'd like this thread to be used for commenting on the actual format and organisation of the pentad, rather than the tactics used. The reason for this is that I will be opening a seperate thread in the PvP forum for discussions on the actual tactics so would prefer people to post in there.
Dr Death also made an interesting discovery while all this was going on and has sent some numbers to Bridger about a flaw in the SK/Exemp system for arena. I know a couple of the Villain teams involved were actually below the level range and one lvl 35 was getting faceplanted more than a couple of extra slots should have made the difference on. Once he has feedback he will be posting the results but it looks like there is a huge bug involved that makes even a 1 or 2 level difference in arena fights a major factor.
You cant SK in the arena. Only exemplaring works to any extend.
A Paragon Defender
Hi all i would just like to say a few things.
Well done to all those who took part and kinslayer for helping me organise this and sitting out for 4 hours in that damn arena not being able to fight .
I apoligise if it seemed like a gankin session, but due to the lower turn out on the hero side i decided to merge the events. This was also agreed with by the union leaders.
But i do agree with what some of the heros have said, in that heros has had the arena for ages and a lot longer to practise pvp wise and know their builds ect, where as villans has only been going since november and i know my Vg are still learning the better combos of powers ect.
I also talked with my Vg who were a bit down getting ganked by heros but as i told them its a learning curve and you can only get better.
Im also sorry ppl had to wait about an hour 
but i needed to write all the teams down and sort the matchs which takes a long time and i was still gettin teams registering late.
If I decide to do another torny i hope ppl will take part, and this time i will split heros/villan apart and run them on seperate days so ppl can take part in both.
But i think the group matchs allowed ppl to play more than one match and not feel disheartend having to go home after one match.
If ppl also wish to run practise penteds im ganna try to get some ppl practising tuesday against kinslayers teams.
Plus if AoW or shamen x or any of the other hero teams wanna take me and my posse down then bring it on, i ant afraid to get ganked by heros.
P.s well done shamen x for winning the tourny and gutts team(e.v.i.l) for reaching the semis.
Globel:Ronin
The Horde
nly the strong survive.
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However.. the downside of the villans pendat is the fact that I an honestly say that it was 5 hero's V 4 Villas, as the MM's were pretty much out of the game with there pet setup, this is NOT a fault with the player but within the game mechanics. and this is due to change in issue7 Im sure.
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More like 5v3 imo
TBH i felt sorry for the stalkers. Against a team with an empath theres not much they can do from what I seen last night.
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And you are wrong. The diferrence between the stealth cap and the perception cap is 10 yds. It doesnt matter how many cm's they have when you can add grant invis on the other side.
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I being a stalker that found it kinda rough last night in the tournament. Have to disagree abit with you.
Even if I cap my stealth, that leaves the 10 yards. These 10 yards are plenty for someone to be able to interrupt my AS. My AS after activation takes 1 - 2 sec (whats the exact number there?) this means that I can get interrupted, by as little as 1 dmg.
So no matter what I do, even though I cap my stealth 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10, I will be interrupted, assuming the other players know what they are doing.
Some people say, well you have to wait for the right moment and so on. And I do. I did manage a few kills on the heroes last night, using AS. But in the end, the fact that no matter what I do, I can in the end be seen. And a stalker out of hide is.. Well cannon fodder.
Should note that im basing my view on last nights fighting. And I didn't have anyone in the team with grant invis, so I was not at stealth cap.
Other then that, great event, a few flaws but nothing major. It was a real good fun Love to see more of that in the future.
Sorry posted in wrong area.
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However.. the downside of the villans pendat is the fact that I an honestly say that it was 5 hero's V 4 Villas, as the MM's were pretty much out of the game with there pet setup, this is NOT a fault with the player but within the game mechanics. and this is due to change in issue7 Im sure.
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More like 5v3 imo
TBH i felt sorry for the stalkers. Against a team with an empath theres not much they can do from what I seen last night.
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And you are wrong. The diferrence between the stealth cap and the perception cap is 10 yds. It doesnt matter how many cm's they have when you can add grant invis on the other side.
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I being a stalker that found it kinda rough last night in the tournament. Have to disagree abit with you.
Even if I cap my stealth, that leaves the 10 yards. These 10 yards are plenty for someone to be able to interrupt my AS. My AS after activation takes 1 - 2 sec (whats the exact number there?) this means that I can get interrupted, by as little as 1 dmg.
So no matter what I do, even though I cap my stealth 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10, I will be interrupted, assuming the other players know what they are doing.
Some people say, well you have to wait for the right moment and so on. And I do. I did manage a few kills on the heroes last night, using AS. But in the end, the fact that no matter what I do, I can in the end be seen. And a stalker out of hide is.. Well cannon fodder.
Should note that im basing my view on last nights fighting. And I didn't have anyone in the team with grant invis, so I was not at stealth cap.
Other then that, great event, a few flaws but nothing major. It was a real good fun Love to see more of that in the future.
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this isnt the right place to say it but it's relevant to the quotes why use AS in the first place? if u no you'll b seen its like sitting nexxt to some1 and asking for a slap, even when seen if u have hide bonus ur guaranteed a crit which will do massive dmg, just go with that and follow it up with a couple of attacks, u dont have to kill them in 1 hit, AS has its uses, in a team with a good empath it has none
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Plus if AoW or shamen x or any of the other hero teams wanna take me and my posse down then bring it on, i ant afraid to get ganked by heros.
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wud be happy to anytime u want a fight just send me a pm, wud be happy to help u and give u tips after each battle too
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this isnt the right place to say it but it's relevant to the quotes why use AS in the first place? if u no you'll b seen its like sitting nexxt to some1 and asking for a slap, even when seen if u have hide bonus ur guaranteed a crit which will do massive dmg, just go with that and follow it up with a couple of attacks, u dont have to kill them in 1 hit, AS has its uses, in a team with a good empath it has none
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And all you have to do, is tell a brute or corupter your target, AS=low health, and let your team finish him off. - Communication will allow a better flow of teamplay in one form or another. - and working together as a team can win matches.
just droped by to say well dun to kinslayer and ronin for getting it all dun realy enjoyed it not been killed so much in one night on that toon ever before lol
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
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If I decide to do another torny i hope ppl will take part, and this time i will split heros/villan apart and run them on seperate days so ppl can take part in both.
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This is something I would certainly like to see. Perhaps make a final league between the best villains and best heroes, although people can still participate just once this way.
About organising the matches, it shouldn't be hard to make a fairly simply Excel file ahead of the tourney. When the tourney starts you just enter team names and the file sorts out the matches for itself. This is still some work, but would mean the work during the actual tourney would be decreased to just a few minutes, even if you do take sign-ups at the start of the tourney and not in advance. Or am I missing something?
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About organising the matches, it shouldn't be hard to make a fairly simply Excel file ahead of the tourney. When the tourney starts you just enter team names and the file sorts out the matches for itself. This is still some work, but would mean the work during the actual tourney would be decreased to just a few minutes, even if you do take sign-ups at the start of the tourney and not in advance. Or am I missing something?
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Actualy writing all the matchs ect only took ten mins all the waiting was for the heros to send me tells of their teams and so forth. But next time i right down the layout b4 then fill in the team names after.
Globel:Ronin
The Hordenly the strong survive.
Thanks to the organisers and everyone that took part, it must be difficult getting tells spammed at you every 2 mins and trying to organise things on the fly. (especially as the chat boxes make scrolling up very difficult in busy areas).
I advise any villains that felt hard done by to talk to Gutts and his team, they put up an excellent fight against the heroes and proved to us all that the Villain/hero divide isnt as huge as first thought. (tho i felt like Mike Tysons Punch bag )
**I heard that enclosed maps with no fly space worked in the villains favour, any feedback?**
And to people moaning about the waiting times, I am very much looking forward to the well oiled event that you will be organising in the near future - perhaps you can stop hiding behind your keyboards and show the rest of us how its ment to be done??
On a side note, Im not sure that pentads are the way forward for judging balance issues, as other posters have said VG's will win every now and again, but it seems that Heroes can dish out and take more Damage per AT when you compare each 1 on 1.
I had loads of fun, and tho we didnt do the Hordes Rep much good, we did learn a lot about choosing builds for PvP and look forward to many more events like this
Now that I have played both blaster and stalker in PvP, I would say they are about even as damage dealers on good teams. If you just wanna destroy unprepared teams a blaster is much more suited cause he can keep laying alot of damage on the table over longer time, where as stalkers only have burst damage.
Against a good team where everyone strugles to get even 1 kill, a stalkers stealth will get him the kill if he works really well with a corruptores scourge. Making the two of them equal to about blaster + scrapper.
Right now the biggest problem villains have is that MMs are too squishie(because of low HP) for pentad matches.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr