Ok this is an inconsistent post, I admit it so first let me say my thanks to all who organised. I've organised a few events and it's usually a thankless task you are putting yourself up to have things thrown at you.
Yes the Heroes are better and it was very annoying to hear them crow about their "victories". Norton was in my team and we did indeed suffer from the player under the cap problem. One of the problems the villains have is their build up powers Corrs aren't to bad pick on the guys with low health and scourge kicks in but brutes and particularly doms with their slow build ups suffer..these are excellent differences in the games as they give the types character, but in PvP it tells. The hero team who were playing us clearly had PvP builds..their tactics weren't actually all that.Getting spotted all the time when using invis was strange but I don't PvP very seriously so i'm sure it's a very clever tactic in a very limited hardly tactical at all environment.I really don't see the point of building a char to some preordained "that's good for pvp" recipe I actually like to have characters. (btw as a comic themed game the villains ought to be far more powerful than the heroes, hasn't one of these people read an actual comic?)
The SG rumble the villains had a while back was a lot of fun..hectic chaotic lots of events to relate back to SG members who weren't there etc. And we didn't win that it was just fun to be there. Getting continually KO'd when you don't stand a chance with opponents then thinking their godlike when that is clearly far from the case is frankly galling. I've also had a lot of fun raiding but this game isn't a counterstrike and it's not going to give superb tactical pvp in the arena. If you have a premiership counterstrike clan then hats off to you you have a true team and tactical skills. The same cannot be said for a CoH pentad team. If the heroes can base raid the villains then that's my mind made up about real base raids..forget it!
I think whats needed for these events is a few more people helping with the organisational effort..and (please don't take this the wrong way)..a little bit more preparation and thought beforehand. Well done guys all such efforts should be applauded, don't give up. Happy to help with other events give me a shout on leaders.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok this is an inconsistent post, I admit it so first let me say my thanks to all who organised. I've organised a few events and it's usually a thankless task you are putting yourself up to have things thrown at you.
Yes the Heroes are better and it was very annoying to hear them crow about their "victories". Norton was in my team and we did indeed suffer from the player under the cap problem. One of the problems the villains have is their build up powers Corrs aren't to bad pick on the guys with low health and scourge kicks in but brutes and particularly doms with their slow build ups suffer..these are excellent differences in the games as they give the types character, but in PvP it tells. The hero team who were playing us clearly had PvP builds..their tactics weren't actually all that.Getting spotted all the time when using invis was strange but I don't PvP very seriously so i'm sure it's a very clever tactic in a very limited hardly tactical at all environment.I really don't see the point of building a char to some preordained "that's good for pvp" recipe I actually like to have characters. (btw as a comic themed game the villains ought to be far more powerful than the heroes, hasn't one of these people read an actual comic?)
The SG rumble the villains had a while back was a lot of fun..hectic chaotic lots of events to relate back to SG members who weren't there etc. And we didn't win that it was just fun to be there. Getting continually KO'd when you don't stand a chance with opponents then thinking their godlike when that is clearly far from the case is frankly galling. I've also had a lot of fun raiding but this game isn't a counterstrike and it's not going to give superb tactical pvp in the arena. If you have a premiership counterstrike clan then hats off to you you have a true team and tactical skills. The same cannot be said for a CoH pentad team. If the heroes can base raid the villains then that's my mind made up about real base raids..forget it!
I think whats needed for these events is a few more people helping with the organisational effort..and (please don't take this the wrong way)..a little bit more preparation and thought beforehand. Well done guys all such efforts should be applauded, don't give up. Happy to help with other events give me a shout on leaders.
[/ QUOTE ]
i never saw any hero "crow" about "victories" (please define victories if not winning) and i dont no any hero who believes themself to be "godlike" i assure u the heros teams have an immense amount of skill and when you've picked ur toys up and got back u in ur pram i'll face u with a pentad team full of pve toons and we'll see who wins
the heros have done nothing apart from salute the villains and offer advise and traingin *sigh* u just cant help some people...
[ QUOTE ]
and i dont no any hero who believes themself to be "godlike"
[/ QUOTE ]
I can think of a few....
I'd like to point out I do not think myself to be godlike, god is infact cherrylike.
(to paraphrase dogma anyone that takes offense at that remark god obviously has a sense of humor how else would you explain Charlotte Church)
About the organization: The event as is was great. I think there have been mistakes, but given the fact that it was unclear which teams would actually take part - how many on either side and so on - and that some teams needed quite a long time to gather their folks it was done well. Especially for a first time event. I'd be very happy to see more of this and wanna congratulate the staff.
Well, about this "balance" issue the problem with the ongoing discussion is the attitude with wich people approach this thread with. A little simplified: If you were victories you are convinced already that you are because you were better. If you were loosing you are convinced that things were unfair. If someone brings an argument against your position you argue against it automatically.
I'd be interested in a lil' game. Let the heroes assume that they only were victorious because of a game imbalance for a moment and the villains assume that they were straight dumb and the heroes smart. I'd be interested in hearing from the heroes what they think a balance issue might be if there was one (even if they don't think there is) and arguing for it.
[ QUOTE ]
I advise any villains that felt hard done by to talk to Gutts and his team, they put up an excellent fight against the heroes and proved to us all that the Villain/hero divide isnt as huge as first thought.
[/ QUOTE ]
I find it ironic that out of all teams, Max's team is selected as a good team to prove villains and heroes aren't that far apart. Max has for a long time now claimed that there IS a balance issue. So really, he's not your best pick to make this point. I've seen several of his matches as well, all of them massacres. Even if he did "okay" in some (I haven't seen those matches), there were plenty where his team simply got butchered. But this could ofcourse be completely down to bad tactics, I just don't think you'll find a lot of support from Max on this point.
[ QUOTE ]
And to people moaning about the waiting times, I am very much looking forward to the well oiled event that you will be organising in the near future - perhaps you can stop hiding behind your keyboards and show the rest of us how its ment to be done??
[/ QUOTE ]
Once again, positive feedback is nice and encourages people, but it doesn't really solve any problems. I DID like the event. I also think the organisation did a good job. Nonetheless, there WERE problems. Negative feedback can be interpreted as moaning and people can feel offended, or they can realise that it's not meant to offend them, it's meant to point them at areas that can be improved.
When I, for example, do an exam for my study, and I score 7 out of 10 points, I go back to the person that gave me this score. I don't do this to see what I did right, I do this to see what I did wrong, and I want the person to tell me what I did wrong. I don't want to hear from him what a good job I did. I can hardly imagine I am unique in this...
I'd like to apologise if my above comments about moaning offended anyone, as you can see it was posted quite early in the morning (for me anyway) and after re reading it I see that it had a touch of aggression in it.
I dont come here to flame or annoy poeple, and am really impressed at how well the community gets on here compared to my experiences over the last 3 years on the SWG forums 
Xtreme you are correct. Toys and pram are appropriate, as I say an inconsistent post but sometimes that spleen just needs to vent. I am not a pvp'er on this game beyond raids and probably never will be. So happy to face you in the arena or, more accurately face plant in front of you in the arena. I came along to show some support for a big event (we ought to have these) and for some fun. I saw a team that was not doing anything special totally cream an (admitedly inexperienced) pvp team and had no fun..zero. If I had seen some fantastic play or tactic i would have applauded it, I love that sort of stuff. But I didn't (I watched a couple of matches too). I think my teammates felt the same, Norton clearly did and judging by the expletives before and after quotes like "this is ridiculous" I think the others felt the same. I expected to turn up and get fairly well creamed by a villain team and I personally agreed to the hero face off. But with hindsight i wouldn't now. I like to feel like I've participated, if a coconut participates in the shy then indeed I did.
The pvp arena scene seems to me like metagaming (which can be fun) in that the "tactics" are in the prep and build of a team. I never entered S4 because 1. I wasn't interested interested and 2. I don't think the arena is that great a competitive environment or minigame. There is clearly a current skill and build differences which seems to make this worse. Good luck to the Villains who want to spend time closing the gap (that's a geniuine good luck not a sarcastic one honest).
There were some smug heroes but I'm not saying they all were, or that they necessarily recognised their behaviour. Like always the majority of players are great and have a laugh. I have some heroes too and trust me they have nothing to be smug about in arena terms. As I say most pvp we've done before generates that "OK we got creamed but you should have seen me an so and so take down their tanker brute etc". Our SG has a weekly newsletter I was hoping to write up some of the funnier bits for this weeks. This didn't happen here. My fantastic teamtalk (that was sarcasm by the way) consisted of "there are gonna be some serious Pvp'ers here so don't expect to win a match. BUT let us at least get some licks in and be able to hold our heads up". OK so dismal failure there then!
Toughguy made soem good points about feedback I think the concensus here even amongst the sore losers like me is that this was a worthy event. However knowing how people felt about something like this informs other future attempts.
Again well done to the organisers for having the guts to do something to promote the "community" and I am keen that those efforts continue. As I said happy to help with organisation of any future events, be they fun, serious or inbetween (and a mix of all three types is good)!
Having read through the above posts I would like to once again acknowledge the efforts of the organisers (which I also did in my original, somewhat grumpy post immediately after the match) its worth repeating, so thanks guys for doing your best, it was certainly not my intention to discourage you from putting together future PvP events. I appreciate it was an exercise akin to herding cats, as the saying goes.
I think people are approaching the issues raised by this event with very different assumptions, and that is where the conflicting opinions, cries of whinger etc are coming from.
The assumptions I personally brought to the event were that villain and hero teams would not really be in the same league in a pentad set up, for reasons Ill give below. I also assumed that villain vs villain teams WOULD be more balanced, and that the fun was therefore to be had in the initial rounds before the deciding villain vs hero finale, which I did not anticipate being a part of anyway.
There are a number of reasons villain Pentad teams are currently at a disadvantage, in my opinion, including but not restricted to the following:
1) Less slots: hero teams would have considerably more slots available due to mainly having lvl50 heroes
2) Dedicated PvP builds: Heroes are more likely to have a dedicated PvP build, since there is less reason NOT to respec your level 50 hero to a PvP build if you are into PvP. Villains are more likely to be involved in PvE and anticipate 10 more levels of PvE in I7, so are less likely to have a dedicated PvP build.
(As an aside, I have done this with my own lvl 50 Controller, and if Id wanted to be on the side benefiting from the games current imbalances I could have brought her along on the night. However I thought prospect of villain vs villain pentad would be more fun. In the event this did not happen, hence my disappointment and general grumpiness)
3) Mastermind setup times: masterminds need quite a while out of combat at the beginning of a match to reach peak effectiveness, during which time they are rather vulnerable and are not contributing to the team.
4) Dominators general weakness in PvP: Dominators get an inherent power that is not really useable in the arena as it takes ages to build and gets set back to zero when you die (which happens very quickly due to sub blaster hitpoints). Not only this but dominator primaries are noticeably less effective than the controller equivalent , and the damage from the secondaries is poor. The devs themselves have admitted as much and have said that improvements will be made in the future to give doms a boost in PvP
These are all powerful factors in themselves, but taken together the result is that villains just cant compete in pentads at present. You may not agree with all of this, of course, but my point is that these are the assumptions under which I signed up for a villain vs villain tournament, and I would most definitely not have signed up for a villains vs heroes pentad.
And in answer to those who have said (I paraphrase) stop whining, pick yourself up and learn from your defeats I would answer:
I play a dominator in PvP. Picking myself up after being defeated is what I do. Sometimes its ALL I do. If I get a single kill in Sirens Call for every 20 defeats I count myself lucky. Its pretty miserable, but Im stubborn and I take what satisfaction I can, and learn what lessons I can, knowing I have picked a difficult task for myself. I could just play my lvl 50 Stormie, but frankly thats too easy.
So when I saw this tournament I was delighted. Aha! I thought, a chance to get into a match thats a bit balanced, villain vs villain, on a level playing field. THATS why I signed up, and THATs why I was so disappointed about yet another night of being spanked by heroes.
Anyway, if youve read through all that lot, thanks for your patience, and if another villain vs villain event is set up Ill join in with gusto.
[ QUOTE ]
)
Thanks to the organisers and everyone that took part, it must be difficult getting tells spammed at you every 2 mins and trying to organise things on the fly. (especially as the chat boxes make scrolling up very difficult in busy areas).
I advise any villains that felt hard done by to talk to Gutts and his team, they put up an excellent fight against the heroes and proved to us all that the Villain/hero divide isnt as huge as first thought. (tho i felt like Mike Tysons Punch bag
**I heard that enclosed maps with no fly space worked in the villains favour, any feedback?**
And to people moaning about the waiting times, I am very much looking forward to the well oiled event that you will be organising in the near future - perhaps you can stop hiding behind your keyboards and show the rest of us how its ment to be done??
On a side note, Im not sure that pentads are the way forward for judging balance issues, as other posters have said VG's will win every now and again, but it seems that Heroes can dish out and take more Damage per AT when you compare each 1 on 1.
I had loads of fun, and tho we didnt do the Hordes Rep much good, we did learn a lot about choosing builds for PvP and look forward to many more events like this
[/ QUOTE ]
well said mate apart from the part i've put in italics, pentad is the most balanced form of PvP u can ever have, the ATs dont measure up 1v1 which is why its a team match, the main problem was the heros played together and the villains played as 5solo players, if the villains co-ordinate every AT can do very good dmg as compared to 3 dmg ATs from the heros, a hero wudnt stand along against a collective strike from 5 villains