Post I7 - PvP

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there's a distinct lack of support toons

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This reminded me of Sirens yesterday, when someone asked my dominator for a one on one and I said "I don't have a single attack" to which the reply was "then what are you doing here?" to which I replied "To hold stuff for other people to attack"

If I haven't got a team, I'm useless...well not useless, just really annoying for anyone without mez protection.

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I know the powersets pretty well, but I'm still not a big fan of PvP. It's just dull really.

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This is something I hear a lot but never can understand.

How can people have a blast in the completely 100% predictable PvE part of this game and find the actual only challenging part of it - the PvP - boring?

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Because they beleive the opposite Jackahobo. I can see thir point. I will only PvP with friends or a prearranged thing. I tend to find PvP is as predictable as anything. Its too much like rock, paper, scissors. That power beats that power. Not neccessarily a bad thing. But PvP is far from unpredicatable. And PvE isnt as predictable in my experiance as perhaps has been in your view.

Boils down to personal pref really as Im sure you know so forgive my stating the obvious.

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It is a learning curve, but it makes the game better as a whole if people understand the other powersets better.

The other day I met a nice blaster who said "I dunno what other powers do, I just blast things till they stop twitching"

Now how much better would that char be in PvE and PvP if he understood what his teammates/enemies powers were and how they worked.

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And how much less fun might he have if it's not something he enjoys doing? People shouldn't be required to delve into the numbers and mechanics of the game just to have a functional PvP character, which they do as it stands (certain powersets excluded). Hell, even PvE is going that way with all the power nerfs and changes of recent issues.

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This is one of the things that puts me off. But if you read a thread 2 days ago that I started on respecs you know my take on such things. It is a bit too mechanical really. This is why I have a casual attitude to it. I will one day not the next.

Thing is when you step into a PvP zone you don't have a clue what you're going to be fighting, whereas when you step into a 'defeat all Malta in base' mission, depending on Teamsize and difficulty you know exactly what you need to do and roughly what you're up against.

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I've been there. Ice Armour may be FOTM at the moment, but when I took it back at the start of I3 everyone looked at me as if I was some kind of mental case.

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I like Ice armour. Ok its the weakest set and ha been broken since. But Not many people take it which makes me think its all the more special and its like turning up the diff. Plus I just like the sets look. I kinda regret deleteing my level 8 pre I5 knowing the next nerf bathces would spoil it. I know someday I will make him again if Im around long enough.

PvP:

You kill me.

I kill you.

You kill me.

I kill you.

You kill me.

I kill you.

You kill me.

I kill you.

You kill me.

I kill you.

You kill me.

I kill you.

You kill me.

I kill you.

You kill me.

I kill you.

At lest PvE has a story and a sense of progress.

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I said it before.To bring masses in PvP zones the solutions are simple and i am curious why the Devs not implement them.

Ranking System

Remove PvP rep cap

PvP character Slots that will remove the need for PvP builds
and will allow to create a PvP character on the go and simply enter straight away the PvP zone. Without the option to exit from it.

Special PvP rewards that do not interfere with PvE (ranked emotes,Ranked auras,Ranked animations,Ranked temp powers_

PvP in game Hall of Fame

Remove debt from pvp zones

Link the EU PvP zones to each other

Create an international PvP server where Korea,USA,Europe players battle it out giving the opportunity for worldwide CoH events

Solve asap major PvP issues such as toggle dropping

Allow Villains and Heroes teaming in warburg

Lower base item prices so that smaller SG's can participate in Base Raiding.

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Unlike most other people I think these things would make PvP far worse not better. A ranking system is a dreadful idea, Rep is already a bad mechanism, encouraging PvP specific builds and gearing the system to a few archetypes is a way to reduce PvP involvement with the playerbase not increase it.

What is needed is a way to encourage more casual players (and player teams) to get involved, I would like to see more RP SG teams come into the zones since a decent team of people who know each other is going to be effective regardless of build. Teams with a bit of character might make the experience much more entertaining, for whatever reason you don't see groups like this in zones, certainly not in Siren's which is a great place for villain vs hero conflict.

I'm tired of being one Dominator in a team of seven Stalkers Vs a bunch of ice/en blappers and a few scrappers. The whole 'pvp build' / character slot notion is bogus, most people don't have time to do something like that and wouldn't want to.

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I agree with much of this. Casual players need encouraging and we cant see it all from the point of thise who already PvP what they would like to see. They are already there and dont need to be enticed. Nor do they really know being of a pro PvP mindset just what not so avid PvPers want.

Please PvPers dont take this the wrong way.

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PvP:

You kill me.

etc...

At lest PvE has a story and a sense of progress.

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PvE is-

You kill him
Kill next
Kill next
Kill next
So on, and so on, and so on.

There is more thought to PvP than you give it credit for, you need to be on your toes because the thing that you are fighting does not have the exact same routine as the million things you've kill before does. I like to be challenged, PvE doesn't provide that at all.

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Thing is when you step into a PvP zone you don't have a clue what you're going to be fighting, whereas when you step into a 'defeat all Malta in base' mission, depending on Teamsize and difficulty you know exactly what you need to do and roughly what you're up against.

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I hear what you are saying. But I know when go in I actually know half the players and toons. This is no supprise at at all when you know x time a player is playing with their friends on their fave PvP toon. Even if I go in blind after 20 or 30 mins. I can find it rather petetative. Oddly enough organised things are more fun to me with regard to PvP.

I prefer the Arena too, actually. I rarely step into PvP zones myself but they deserve more credit than 'kill X of Y in base' which is so routine for some people they can do them blind-folded.

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PvP:

You kill me.

etc...

At lest PvE has a story and a sense of progress.

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PvE is-

You kill him
Kill next
Kill next
Kill next
So on, and so on, and so on.

There is more thought to PvP than you give it credit for, you need to be on your toes because the thing that you are fighting does not have the exact same routine as the million things you've kill before does. I like to be challenged, PvE doesn't provide that at all.

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Like I say each to their own. I dont feel that way about PvE and I know many who dont either. I guess this may be an interesting point to see where the dividing line is between those who bought the game for creative aspects and thise who got it to go for more mechanical side of things. Maybe a hypothesis to check if no one has anything better to do one given day.

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I prefer the Arena too, actually. I rarely step into PvP zones myself but they deserve more credit than 'kill X of Y in base' which is so routine for some people they can do them blind-folded.

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It's funny I find the arena deathly dull. I wouldn't bother with PvP at all if it wasn't for the zones. For people that want to match toon with toon team with team I've no objection to them moving wholesale to the arena, for an actual game I'm hoping I7 gives us more than we have now.

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I prefer the Arena too, actually. I rarely step into PvP zones myself but they deserve more credit than 'kill X of Y in base' which is so routine for some people they can do them blind-folded.

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It's funny I find the arena deathly dull. I wouldn't bother with PvP at all if it wasn't for the zones. For people that want to match toon with toon team with team I've no objection to them moving wholesale to the arena, for an actual game I'm hoping I7 gives us more than we have now.

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I think we all do want a bit more to play around with. But since I4 and I5 have been so thin on bringing us new stuff and an urge to get us to PvP is not enough. I accpet what we have. Id like so much more but I cant see it happening. No where near the expecaions I once had. Ill give upwhen I feel Im no longer able to get anything out of this game.

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I said it before.To bring masses in PvP zones the solutions are simple and i am curious why the Devs not implement them.

Ranking System

Remove PvP rep cap

PvP character Slots that will remove the need for PvP builds
and will allow to create a PvP character on the go and simply enter straight away the PvP zone. Without the option to exit from it.

Special PvP rewards that do not interfere with PvE (ranked emotes,Ranked auras,Ranked animations,Ranked temp powers_

PvP in game Hall of Fame

Remove debt from pvp zones

Link the EU PvP zones to each other

Create an international PvP server where Korea,USA,Europe players battle it out giving the opportunity for worldwide CoH events

Solve asap major PvP issues such as toggle dropping

Allow Villains and Heroes teaming in warburg

Lower base item prices so that smaller SG's can participate in Base Raiding.

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Unlike most other people I think these things would make PvP far worse not better. A ranking system is a dreadful idea, Rep is already a bad mechanism, encouraging PvP specific builds and gearing the system to a few archetypes is a way to reduce PvP involvement with the playerbase not increase it.

What is needed is a way to encourage more casual players (and player teams) to get involved, I would like to see more RP SG teams come into the zones since a decent team of people who know each other is going to be effective regardless of build. Teams with a bit of character might make the experience much more entertaining, for whatever reason you don't see groups like this in zones, certainly not in Siren's which is a great place for villain vs hero conflict.

I'm tired of being one Dominator in a team of seven Stalkers Vs a bunch of ice/en blappers and a few scrappers. The whole 'pvp build' / character slot notion is bogus, most people don't have time to do something like that and wouldn't want to.

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I agree. I remember how thoroughly hated the WoW "Honor" system was among the WoW PvE crowd when it was introduced, back when I was still plying WoW. A ranking system is just an extra reward for the hard-core PvP:ers, and nothing to draw the casuals.

If you really want to lure the PvE:ers into PvP to provide more targets for the PvP:ers, you have to (A) provide an environment in which the PvE:ers feel comfortable and (B) provide targets that appeal to PvE:ers.

(A) means having some way to enforce courteousy and chivalry, and reducing pwnage and ganking. Now, inventing something like that would be a true "honor system", but a hard task indeed. Not that WoWs gank-rank system was any easy: it was so complex that it had to be run in a nightly batch job, not calculated real time, and the WoW community reps were kept extremely busy explaining different anomalies in the system to irate PvP:ers dissatisfied by their ranking...

(B) I suspect, is to do more of what is already in place in the zones: More mission-oriented tasks, rather than aimless random PvP. Protect a convoy, for example. Real opposed missions, not just "hinder any opponents to reach the missions".

Of course, it might mean that the PvE:ers even more than now do the PvP zone missions on odd hours to escape unwanted attention, but that's life...

I decided to try PvP this week-end. My only experience had been a couple months back, right when I began as the team I was in decided, in chit chat, to go the Arena.

That first experience spoiled as it was me, a corruptor, with another corruptor and two stalkers. As can be imagined myelf and the other corruptor would happily blast each other for meager damage but some sort of fun (we were all under level 10) while the stalkers would simply ambush and one shot.

After the other corruptor giving up and me dealing with two stalkers who could not see each other thus leaving me the only target, who also could not see them, I too gave up in disgust. It reminded me too much of NWN's shadow dancers.

So, anyway, I decided to try PvP again with my level 26 ice/kin. It's been a very good character IMO, good damage, fast heals, good buffs and SB can be the life and soul of a team at times.

I confess it was plenty fun. I must've stayed there for the whole morning. First me and a friend went for the hotspots and helped the villain side win, then even tually some heros came along and we two beat them (I was amazed that we won ^^ ).

Very fun, very clean, jibes thrown left and right in that banter most PvPers like with none of the insults of cowardice.

By then I had acumuated some debt thanks to the pesky longbows but it was all good.

We eventually migrated to the ocean in front of villain base as it had no NPCs to dispense debt and since we were being killed rather fast anyway.

Fun started to dwindle a bit as we had a few stalkers who did help, a few MMs who.. er.. looked pretty and were good cannon fodder ^^ and a few corruptors (me and my friend). I say the fun dwindled because the other side was mostly scrappers, which my little corruptor would whittle their HP slowly (even with Assault and three SOs) and they'd heal a big chunk. Still doable if we focused on a targe a time.

Unfortunatly one of the scrappers had managed some sort of build based on cyclone (or is it hurricane? I'm a newbie yes), some thing that knocked us down while dealing 170-200 dmg. Very very effective.

My own fun was finnaly completly soured by a controller who would hold me while everyone else piled on. I confess I *could* have bought a dozen BFs and used them, but I didn't want to waste my cash, and after my 10th or so attempt to go in, be held, killed, respawn etc I decided to go back o the hotspots. No can do as the heros followed.

Anyway, bottom point. In balance of my morning of PvP I got two SOs (a pleasant surprise, though I suspect I could've earned enough influence to buy them in PvE) and a good ammount of fun. Slightly marred as some of the children started with insults and threats of bodily harm (because yes, it's widely known that threatning violence over the Net makes people stop doing whatever it is they were doing) and the fact I was rather helpless as soon as attention were on me.

I could take is as a compliment. The dom in our team was number one in the To Kill list, but I was second ^^

I'll try it again, but I'll have to figure something against holds, maybe respec, add freeze ray, ID, maybe toss out Assault and Tactics.. Hmm.. something to ponder. PvE's still my baby though

Been reading a review of Auto Aussault and the PvP in that looks awsome. Linked Arena so you will be fight people form all over the world special items you can only get from arena or PvP fights. If they added stuff like that in to CoX you might get more people doing PvP.

Review here

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What is needed is a way to encourage more casual players (and player teams) to get involved, I would like to see more RP SG teams come into the zones since a decent team of people who know each other is going to be effective regardless of build. Teams with a bit of character might make the experience much more entertaining, for whatever reason you don't see groups like this in zones, certainly not in Siren's which is a great place for villain vs hero conflict.

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I ran a regular group of PvE/Roleplayers into a PvP zone for fun. This was a team that has played more than a year together in weekly games. 7 of us faced off against 4-5 villains in Warburg. And pretty much got our [censored] handed to us. Partly because of lack of PvP skill, but mostly because of lack of PvP builds. Though we did have tactics, and our blaster (me) is a blapper, it still didn't work ut, too many of our powers were PvE specific. Ice Slick and Tar Parch were laughable in PvP, and with a Plant corruptor, my areas were worse than useless.

No, PvP as it stands now requires a PvP build. Ilike to make builds, and have thought out loads of PvE builds and some PvP builds. And they are two entirely different things. I wouldn't have the stomach to level one of my PvP builds through PvE, and taking a PvE build to a PvP zone is death.

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Ice Slick and Tar Patch were laughable in PvP

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If by "laughable" you mean "totally freakin' awesome", then yes. Ice Slick and Tar Patch are both -jump, which is crippling against anyone without Teleport. On top of this, Tar Patch is -speed and -fly on top of -jump so you basically kill movement from ANYONE without teleport with Tar Patch. On top of this, it's got a crazy huge -res element to it.

In PvP you have to know exactly what every power does, and what you can do to counter it. No tactic that ANYONE can throw at you is uncounterable, you just have to know which powers to use.

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Been reading a review of Auto Aussault and the PvP in that looks awsome. Linked Arena so you will be fight people form all over the world special items you can only get from arena or PvP fights. If they added stuff like that in to CoX you might get more people doing PvP.

Review here

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The temp powers in pvp zones you can get only there.FYI the auto assault pvp needs a lot of work.A LOT of work.Really unblanaced for now and some powers work really bad.

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If by "laughable" you mean "totally freakin' awesome", then yes.

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Agreed, Tar Patch is one of the reasons my MM can take out /Regens - it's just a matter of knowing when to drop it.

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If by "laughable" you mean "totally freakin' awesome", then yes.

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Agreed, Tar Patch is one of the reasons my MM can take out /Regens - it's just a matter of knowing when to drop it.

[/ QUOTE ]QFT.

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Been reading a review of Auto Aussault and the PvP in that looks awsome. Linked Arena so you will be fight people form all over the world special items you can only get from arena or PvP fights. If they added stuff like that in to CoX you might get more people doing PvP.

Review here

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The temp powers in pvp zones you can get only there.FYI the auto assault pvp needs a lot of work.A LOT of work.Really unblanaced for now and some powers work really bad.

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The game has only gone live so yeah it will need work just like CoX PvP needed work. The mian reason I am pointing at AA is that it is offering people reasons to go PvP like international arean fights in game items that you can only get via PvP real life prizes for PvP regualar events.

The prob I have with CoX PvP is that it is a pian in the [censored] to find it there is no reason for some that likes PvE to go PvP. There is no risk vs reward in it at all I personaly dont give a dam about PvP reps as I think there bull. But I do like the challenge of PvP I find it a change from the normal game play but the fact is that this is a PvE game that has had PvP added on as an after thought and a lot of PvE players dont see the piont in it.

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The prob I have with CoX PvP is that it is a pian in the [censored] to find it there is no reason for some that likes PvE to go PvP. There is no risk vs reward in it at all I personaly dont give a dam about PvP reps as I think there bull. But I do like the challenge of PvP I find it a change from the normal game play but the fact is that this is a PvE game that has had PvP added on as an after thought and a lot of PvE players dont see the piont in it.

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And if you add rewards for PvP kills, then you get the same effect as in the WoW "Honor" system: The best way to score "high-quality kills" was apparently for two high-level guilds to meet in a discreet out-of-the-way location and do a set of mutually agreed kill-exchange round-robins, so that each player in guild A got to kill all in guild B three times, and vice versa.

(Three times, because you could only score points for killing any given opponent three times a day, if I recall correctly...)

Sort of the PvP equivalent of power-levelling.

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The prob I have with CoX PvP is that it is a pian in the [censored] to find it there is no reason for some that likes PvE to go PvP. There is no risk vs reward in it at all I personaly dont give a dam about PvP reps as I think there bull. But I do like the challenge of PvP I find it a change from the normal game play but the fact is that this is a PvE game that has had PvP added on as an after thought and a lot of PvE players dont see the piont in it.

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And if you add rewards for PvP kills, then you get the same effect as in the WoW "Honor" system: The best way to score "high-quality kills" was apparently for two high-level guilds to meet in a discreet out-of-the-way location and do a set of mutually agreed kill-exchange round-robins, so that each player in guild A got to kill all in guild B three times, and vice versa.

(Three times, because you could only score points for killing any given opponent three times a day, if I recall correctly...)

Sort of the PvP equivalent of power-levelling.

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Explains why so many sat around fishing in AB and AV .

Tauren Mill zergs FTW!