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For Afulia, OT
What did God say after creating man?
I must be able to do better than that.
What did God say after creating Eve?
Practice makes perfect
What did God say after that?
Must need more practise
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Yep, He needs more practice to remake men ( because he failed awfuly ), but i don't think He ever got around to do that, so men are broken 
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In a few words : ruin my fun will result in me trying to ruin yours.
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The whole point of going into to a PvP zone, is to attack or be attacked by other players, so, i would find it fun to be attacked by anyone, thats why people go into PvP zones!
Anyone that does'nt find it fun to be attacked by other players, reguardless of what they are doing, should'nt go in there! 
People that want a safe, uninterupted, and fair fight, should take it to the Arena as already stated 
Some things that have popped up in my mind while reading this thread:
(Note I'm hero-only, at the moment)
If I'm in a PvP zone, yeah I expect an attack at any moment, and if I want to duel, I'd prefer to take it to the arena.
If I'm jumping around said PvP zone, and see a villain with a full/high health bar, pounding on a hero with a considerably lower one, I'll jump in and try to help the hero. If the hero is holding his/her own, I'll leave them be, since I definitely don't want to killsteal. If the hero complains, I'll move off.
If I see a villain running around, I'll hit him/her. If the villain makes no move to defend him/herself, I'll go on my merry way, and find someone who is interested in a bit of a bash.
If said villain then returns with a gank of stalkers, and jumps on my corpse after I've been mass AS'd, I'll probably leave the zone, since that's as much fun as repeatedly taking the alpha strike from the Psychic Clockwork king.
I won't try too hard if the heroes outnumber the villains, and if ridiculously outnumbered, will be less than enthusiastic about being in the zone.
Basically, I don't find any pleasure in beating on helpless toons, or those who aren't interested. I hate when I'm having a good time in Sirens, and stalkers keep ganking the blasters or defenders, who then proceed to leave the zone, which makes the zone less fun and unbalances it.
Most people can take it on the chin, if they feel they're giving as good as they get. But I guess that's hard when all you see is the hospital, and the pavement.
Might have wandered a little off topic... but that's generally my take on PvP zones, and how I 'use' them.
Maybe in PvP zones, if you target someone, you could have a 'Engage 1-on-1', which, if the other person also chooses on you (meaning no annoying popups that could be used to ones advantage), maybe you'd be whisked away to the arena, or maybe you'd just be removed from PvP-ability, except for the person you are fighting.
The one thing I HATE about duels in Sirens call, is that people will do it for free SOs (or badges), with mates, and expect people to leave them be. I will happily break up one of those duels, if I notice that it's repeatedly happening, since it's basically abusing the system. Do it when people aren't trying to have proper PvP fun if you must.
Shrug.
Last night was a prime example of fun in Siren's Call.
Yes, at one point the heroes began to camp the villain base, and this really, really annoys me. So... I kindly asked a villain friend in the zone to grab his Dominator and confuse me so i could go beat on some heroes to get them to back off. Now that's fun
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The whole point of going into to a PvP zone, is to attack or be attacked by other players, so, i would find it fun to be attacked by anyone, thats why people go into PvP zones!
Anyone that does'nt find it fun to be attacked by other players, reguardless of what they are doing, should'nt go in there!
People that want a safe, uninterupted, and fair fight, should take it to the Arena as already stated
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What i tried to say by i'll hunt the person down is : if you are in the middle of 100 heroes, i'll go for you everytime i see you ignoring the others .
And arena isn't a viable solution for people that want just 1 duel, it's especially not viable for MMs that need to spend 5 min before entering fights to upgrade henchies, which basicaly means you'll have to waste 10 min for upgrading: 5 min for arena fight and 5 min when going back to pvp zone ( yes, i'm a MM ).
Its not just 2 people duelling for a few minutes then getting stuck in again. Its a whole load of people in a clique, maybe half the zone+, all lined up ready to duel each other for the duration of there time in the zone. When this happens I find it a bit of a waste being there "oh, my bounty is duelling/spectating" . Sure, they would prolly let me duel if I asked, but duelling to me gets boring fast and theres already a place to do it.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
If someone are duelling I'll try and keep out of their way but you can't in no way expect anyone or me for that matter to always do this...it's an open zone...expect to be attacked.
Sometimes you "have" to attack in a preemptive strike to defend yourself. On more than one occassion I've had people say "Don't attack!! We're duelling/testing or whatnot" just to have these people attack you when you let your guard down or look the other way.
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
It's quite easy to deal with a lot of people that are dueling as i have found out : go to where they are, and tell them : Guys...we have 10 heroes and 10 villains here..so let's have massive battles instead of duels. You'd be surprised how many people start dueling due to the sides not being balanced...and once they get on with it they don't realise anymore if the sides get balanced or not..they just need a bit of a reminder
I started a thread exactly like this one a while back when a similar thing happend to me ... I'll re-tell the story,
My first encounter with PVP, a friend who is a avid pvp'r finally convinced me to join him in a trip to SC. We enter the zone and within 10 seconds find a large group of heroes villains ... a quick glance and yes I can see "horror of horrors" one of my comrades ... a hero in arms being attacked by a villain ... so I, being a hero, rush to his aid.
Within 2 seconds I'm being called an Idiot and many other things I wish I'd petitioned for now.
So now would you like to explain to me, how that is right? How what I was doing was wrong? I knew nothing about duels before that day ... I always thought pvp duels were something that you did in the Arena (which is where they should be). On entering the PVP zone I expected to be attacked and to have to attack people ... I didn't expect that attacking to be verbal.
Suffice it to say I finished that session very shortly there after and have never been back to PVP since. Yes I have been put off, and as long as threads like this one keep appearing in the forums I won't be making a move to try again as clearly things haven't improved.
The argument above that by breaking up a duel I was being selfish or thick headed just doesn't apply as I had no idea there was a duel ... if a broadcast message was sent out I entered the zone after it happened ... and if I had seen the message I wouldn't have known what a duel was anyway!!
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Sometimes you "have" to attack in a preemptive strike to defend yourself. On more than one occassion I've had people say "Don't attack!! We're duelling/testing or whatnot" just to have these people attack you when you let your guard down or look the other way.
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Well this discussion isn't going anywhere, people have different views on this matter...so far things have gone well enough for me ( yes, i'm a dueling addict ).
Now however we put this there's always gonna be different reasons for respecting/intrerupting a duel : if i get insulted in broadcast by a player then i start hunting him only to find him with the "don't attack ! i'm dueling" flag...i'll kill him ( example ), if i get attacked by a someone who's in a duel ( just as Archy said ) i'll strike back, if someone decides to duel in an open area where other battles are taking place...they'll get attacked by me if i don't get a request to leave them alone...and there are a lot of examples.
I also noticed that if you are being nice to people in general, they'll let you have your duels. I wouldn't expect to be left alone to duel if i offended someone, though i do expect to be left alone to duel by people i've been friendly with.
So i guess it all resumes to how you interract with others, and how they view you : friend or foe
all depends on personality really.. if people kindly ask me if I could wait till their little scrim is over, most of times I let them be (if of course they arent the only other players in the zone). If they start saying "back off! we're duelling!" or even worse variants, hell they gonna get some redecoration on their faces.
Like I pointed out in my previous post (and someone else admitted he was uninformed after) not everybody knows that heroes can battle villains in arena. Like I said, I myself thought you could only have hero vs hero and villain vs villain in arena for a while. When people still arent informed enough about this, the duelling people in pvp zones and the reaction on that will still be a point of discussion.
IF everybody knew (or at least was informed) hero vs villain duels are available in arena, its a whole different story. In this case there is no excuse to duel in pvp zones anymore, in which case duelling or not they become a target. If they start complaining, well they just end up on the same list as the people that complain they were just doing mishes, just getting temp power, getting badge, playing his "wrong" build and any other build wouldve pwned me.. if you didnt want to be attacked by others, stay out of a PvP zone.
But seeing not everybody is informed bout duelling in arena, there will still be a discussion whether or not you should attack them.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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The argument above that by breaking up a duel I was being selfish or thick headed just doesn't apply as I had no idea there was a duel ... if a broadcast message was sent out I entered the zone after it happened ... and if I had seen the message I wouldn't have known what a duel was anyway!!
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Well i'm talking here about people that ask and try to make others understand they are having a duel. I'm quite sure that if one of those duelers sent you a tell or said in broadcast : please, don't attack we're dueling, you'd have asked what a duel is ( you said you didn't know at that time ), or at least ask how this works. If i attack someone who's having a duel ( either they didn't broadcast it, or i didn't notice the broadcast ) and they insult me...i won't stop...and i'll continuosly kill them. It's just like going to a restaurant : you need to use : please, thank you etc. or you'll end up having second doubts about what you are eating
I find it to be just manners and common sense. Perhaps even a matter of education.
I certainly don't expect everyone to be polite and educated. Age has little to do with this.
Law and spirit are different things, because something is permissible or allowed doesn't make it mandatory.
A bank manager who had someone unable to pay the letters of his house *is* allowed to take the house back, or he can decide to help the person and give her some slack, thus allowing to carry on with payments.
Really, it's a society of self absorbed interest where manners not only dwindle from day to day, but can go to nil over the internet where one's piggish behaviour has no consequences.
How possibly hard can it be to respect someone's wishes?
'Please, we're trying to decide which of us is best. Once done we'll carry on fighting.' Heck, seems straightforward. But to many in this thread it seems inconprehensible, the fact they can't satisfy their needs *NOW* and respect someone's expressed wishes.
My own experience in PvP here is close to zilch since my first attempt was to go to an arena with another corruptor and two stalkers.
Me and the corruptor, same ATs, had our fun trying to blast each other and mostly failing miserably or hitting for wussy damage, butt still fun to try. We gave up when the stalkers started ganging on us, one hit kills. Couldn't see them coming, couldn't do a thing, one AS and dead. Respawn, look around, see no one, then a AS out of the blue. Respawn again....
Right.
I come from NWN and we had the same problem with Shadowdancers. Though it's more problematic over NWN since thanks to game mechanics they can strike and hide again before we can hit. Repeat 'till death.
OT
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I come from NWN and we had the same problem with Shadowdancers. Though it's more problematic over NWN since thanks to game mechanics they can strike and hide again before we can hit. Repeat 'till death.
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What class were you playing in NWN ? I never had much trouble with the shadowdancers, because after their first him i'd use Time Stop and acid fog, then cloud of bewilderment and thunder strike.
And yes i agree to what you said completely!
So...
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How possibly hard can it be to respect someone's wishes?
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if it's the wish of any "duelists", to be left alone until they are ready, then what about the PvP'er who's wish it is to enjoy a spot of hunting without having to send out tells to every group he sees, asking if it's ok to attack at will.
PvP'ers...walk in, attack, get defeated, get up, smile, carry on! Its only a game!
So what if your duelling?
So what if your missioning?
So what if your wandering around warberg with your eyes shut playing a lute singing la,la,la la,?
You get attacked, you get back up, you congratulate your attacker on a job well done, and continue with what you were doing.
But (back on topic) to verbally abuse, cause offence to anyone that has attacked you in a PvP zone is unacceptable!
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Open PvP shouldnt be a standing invitation to behave like a drunken idiot, but clearly this is the sort of behaviour that's encouraged by devs and rednames, and it's for this reason I've, like you so eloquently proclaimed, picked up my ball and gone to play somewhere else.
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Duelling is supported by Devs by placing an explicit location where u can duel all you want is called Arena.
Also you seem to generalise a lot about what griefing is which is a bit out of place since you forget the definition of the open PvP zones Cox has
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Its not just 2 people duelling for a few minutes then getting stuck in again. Its a whole load of people in a clique, maybe half the zone+, all lined up ready to duel each other for the duration of there time in the zone. When this happens I find it a bit of a waste being there "oh, my bounty is duelling/spectating" . Sure, they would prolly let me duel if I asked, but duelling to me gets boring fast and theres already a place to do it.
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I generally try and waste the whole lot of them in these situations duelling or spectating.
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I find it to be just manners and common sense. Perhaps even a matter of education.
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This is a really discriminating point of view and i totally not accept it. You wanna tell me education has to do with how u behave in a PvP zone? Well fyi there are many non educated people out there that behave a lot better than people with university diplomas and are far more respected. Education has nothing to do with that tbh and i dont think if u have a Chemistry Phd you are bound to be more elegant or kind towards others.
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PvP'ers...walk in, attack, get defeated, get up, smile, carry on!
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For me this is the most respected thing in a PvP zone.The kills, the build the amount of pwnnage you unleash well all these dont really matter, what makes someone more respected is when he simply enjoys every moment out of it win or lose. Every time someone gets defeated and simply comes back and keeps trying trying different things is what i respect most,outnumbered or not ganked or not. This separates a lot of players in a PvP zone since you see the ones that are all talk on broadcasts while its few players in there and when things heat up they start leaving the zone.
As for duels etc, it really depends on my mood to be honest.The zones were not designed for duels and thats the bottom line. Allowing a duel is not really a thing of manners but a thing of how u feel at the moment. Usually i will start with the spectators first...then waste slowly the rest.
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to verbally abuse, cause offence to anyone that has attacked you in a PvP zone is unacceptable!
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Anyone that does that is a moron and should be petitioned
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Last night was a prime example of fun in Siren's Call.
Yes, at one point the heroes began to camp the villain base, and this really, really annoys me. So... I kindly asked a villain friend in the zone to grab his Dominator and confuse me so i could go beat on some heroes to get them to back off. Now that's fun
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Hehe, I remember that
And sorry for staying in the base, I did try too break off and pick a few of you off one by one, but there was simply too many heroes.
(Although I did get the cocky blaster and defender )
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Last night was a prime example of fun in Siren's Call.
Yes, at one point the heroes began to camp the villain base, and this really, really annoys me. So... I kindly asked a villain friend in the zone to grab his Dominator and confuse me so i could go beat on some heroes to get them to back off. Now that's fun
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Hehe, I remember that
And sorry for staying in the base, I did try too break off and pick a few of you off one by one, but there was simply too many heroes.
(Although I did get the cocky blaster and defender )
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By the time i got there villains were already penned in there base so I had a little less fun than the players who had been around a bit longer. Hopefully tonight will be better 
btw, love the use of the word "waste" by TG
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
There are quite a few reasons to duel in PvP zones:
A) Lazyness -You go there for open fights but the sides are so uneven that you decide to fight 1v1 without having to run to the arena.
B) You want to talk about tactics etc. and 30mins timeout is a pain.
C) Nobody else there at the time and your waiting for more to come in.
Personally I think Sirens is the worst place to dual as people get bounty on them and therefore duels do get in the way of what the area was made for.
In Warburg Ive dueled loads, true you should expect people to attack you and if you start being rude because they do then you are certainly in the wrong.
However, you dont have to say "please" and "thank you" IRL, it just so happends that it is sometimes easier on you if you do . If you attack anyone watching or dueling in Warburg dont be at all suprised if the whole lot turn round in seconds and make you wish you hadnt.
End of the day though its just a game so as long as people are polite about it, who cares?
Gorgog
Edit: P.S. Guess alot has to do with point of view though. Personally Ill attack on sight anyone who uses terms such as "PWNED" and "NOOB" on broadcast.
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Union
Trolls:Ill/Rad,MC/Rad,Fire/Storm
Blap:Ice/Nrg
Offender:Rad/Psi
Tank:Ice/Stone
Vilians
Stalker:Spines/Regen
Corrupter:Ice/Rad
Brute:Stone/EM
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btw, love the use of the word "waste" by TG
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It's so Chuck Norris
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btw, love the use of the word "waste" by TG
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It's so Chuck Norris
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What is it with chuck norris and coh? 
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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If you attack anyone watching or dueling in Warburg dont be at all suprised if the whole lot turn round in seconds and make you wish you hadnt.
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You see here is a blur spot. Its wrong to gank a single person with a team in a PvP zone cause its "unethical" but it becomes ethical when a single person takes a kill and uses the zone as intented. But then the ganking is justified. See my point? I dont like this way of thinking tbh cause since the devs have clearly shown the way for the open PvP zones i dont need personally anyone telling me their own rules inside the zones regarding duelling. U are red?u are bound to be attacked.Still i will repeat what i said first week PvP zones started and people moaned like nothing before cause we would kill them repeatedly. We really need a set of clear rules of engagement for this game like any serious pvp game out there so people can finally stop coming up with their own rules and a set of Code of Conduct to finally put an end to some behaviours in PvP zones via petitions that have some basis to be placed uppon.
To me it isnt a blur spot as I dont feel it is at all wrong to kill a single person with a team. Personaly I wouldnt get light headed at the power of it or even feel I would want to but then I tend to respect duels.
So many people are saying anything goes, so ganking goes as well, we just have to make our own decisions on it and live with the reactions of others.
Also my example was based on the fact that ppl who duel will most likely know each other to some extent and therefore help anyone, spectator or not, who gets attacked. Which again is completly acceptable, to me at least .
Edit: Do we really need more rules though? I think on both sides we can all agree that its bad language and personal put downs that offends the most and those are already against the rules.
Gorgog
--------------------
Union
Trolls:Ill/Rad,MC/Rad,Fire/Storm
Blap:Ice/Nrg
Offender:Rad/Psi
Tank:Ice/Stone
Vilians
Stalker:Spines/Regen
Corrupter:Ice/Rad
Brute:Stone/EM
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Do we really need more rules though? I think on both sides we can all agree that its bad language and personal put downs that offends the most and those are already against the rules.
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Yes we do for a simple reason. right now there is no clear set of rules when someone is taking some things too far in the PvP zone and there are situations that this happens indeed. A set of rules will ensure that the players have a basis uppon which they can move against another player with petitions. The code of conduct within game as set now is adjusted for PvE but in PvP zones there are so many factors to be taken in consideration that imho there should be some evaluation. There was a thread a while ago about the players setting their own rules. Actually it shouldnt be really expected everyone to follow the rules just because a bunch of players decided what is right and what is wrong. Thats where the Devs come into play.
On a side note : if i get intrerupted from a duel, i'll broadcast this : I was dueling, can you please let me be for a few moments then we can fight all you want. ( or something very similar because i like to keep it civilised ). If my plea gets ignored and i set up for a duel and get killed by outsiders again...i'll "play by the rules" as well ( i'm quite vindictive with people that ruin my fun ) and will hunt them all the time, will not stop attacking if they come under npc fire, will not let them rest in base ( there are no rules that state you shouldn't attack people who are engaged in pve fights ), will not however resort to insults - but if they do i'll warn them with petition. In a few words : ruin my fun will result in me trying to ruin yours.