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The downside of this seems to be that not many people really want to face them as the one sided battles take the fun out of PvP and unless you have a full team of PvP builds, you don't really have much of a chance.
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No, you need a team full of people with PvP SKILL. There is a difference between PvE skill and PvP skill. Builds have practically nothing to do with it.
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So you mean i can come up with a Claw/SR scrapper with Flutty, Jump Kick, 2 attacks from the primary and 3 powers from the secondary, filled with pool powers and have a chance against Chives and Seiche?
Good to know, I always thought that build would've been gimped for PvP and I had no chance.
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if u had PvP skill u wudnt pick those powers....he clearly meant primary/secondary powers, if u picked sensible powers there is no reason, behind a good player, why claws/sr couldnt do well, especially as claws is getting better soon
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If the skill really was _more_ important than the build, then I could pick _any_ build and slot my powers any way I want and be as effective as anyone else.
It was like that in the old Ultima Online, before Age of Shadows ruined it all: you could've picked any skills you wanted, but with the _skill_ you could've kept up with anyone else.
These days every MMOG is goin towards a play style where you have to pick the right toon or the right class, or the right powersets to be able to keep up in pvp, skill is far less important than the build..
Skill in chosing the build? Then it's _indeed_ about the build, the PvP skill is not seen in chosing powersets, but in how you play them and if they were really balanced even a Claw/SR could keep up with some other uber build like BS/Regen..
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If that is the case, how come I can beat a lot of MA/regens and yet Nightbringer wipes the floor with me every time? Most ice/nrg blasters I come across I can beat, but Captain Freon will quite happily walk all over me. I don't think I've ever lost to an elec/elec blaster apart from Plight Trawler. Why is this? Why do these people, with the same powersets as others, beat me day in and day out? Magic?
Builds differ.
World of Jackcraft.
Erm not wanting to come over as rude or a smart a$£%, (which means I probably will), but havnt you kinda proven Jiaozy's point to some extent Xanthus?
If fighting Nightbringer "Nightbringer wipes the floor with me every time" with his MA/Regen and "Captain Freon will quite happily walk all over me" with his Ice/Nrg blaster then does it not suggest that either you are not as good as them or that it is indeed down to build?
Could Nightbringer and Captain Freon beat you using Grav/Emp if you were using MA/Regen or Ine/Nrg?
I know to some point this argument is flawed as its paper/scissors/rock but I still would agree with the statement 20% skill 80% build.
In giving 10 ATs each with 2 sets City of Heroes can have so many different builds however so it does take skill to spot the better AT builds and use them well, (left CoH in I4 due to lack of PvP but when the game came out I remember controllers were thought of as completely useless and blappers were laughed at, infact if you even mentioned you liked fighting in the arena it was almost enough to get you kicked out a team 
).
Anyway skill has loads to do with it but personally I think bad skill will effect most fights more then good and at high level PvP build wins out.
Gorgog
P.S. Ive teamed with people in AoW and while I am not going to comment on their PvP Ive found every last one of then extreemly friendly and helpful, two traits I put far above being PvP gods.
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Could Nightbringer and Captain Freon beat you using Grav/Emp if you were using MA/Regen or Ine/Nrg?
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Yes. 
A Paragon Defender
I could beat most people using a trick arrow / archery defender
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
Hope that was some kind of sick joke...
World of Jackcraft.
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I could beat most people using a trick arrow / archery defender
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Nah just beat the French 
Are you on the Test Server tonight for the weekly International get together?
Wish I could be but have work to sneak in for uni before anyone realises its a day late 
.
Keeping fingers crossed for Union and Defiant teams .
Gorgog
If I was too recomend any PvP SG it would be the AoW, i've even considered joining them (if they ever wanted me), a number of times.
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If I was too recomend any PvP SG it would be the AoW, i've even considered joining them (if they ever wanted me), a number of times.
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Why exactly? If because they have a large amount of active PvPers then fair enough, but for skill/teamwork/ability to win against any good team they are severly lacking (no offence intended).
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
Yes, it is because of the large amount of active players they have got.
Tbh, i've rarely seen any member of "The Three Lions" organizing events, challenging SG's, or even just out and about.
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Yes, it is because of the large amount of active players they have got.
Tbh, i've rarely seen any member of "The Three Lions" organizing events, challenging SG's, or even just out and about.
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we are all at the international challenge and union pvp nights every week as well as challenging people regularly so i really dont get where ur coming from...ur not really in the regular pvp "circle" so cant see that u can say that...
Art of War are very active in PvP from what I've seen. Whenever we ask for PvP raids etc, they always seem to be the ones who are first to reply.
They also have a core of PvP players who have been honing tactics and builds in the arena for a very long while. This means they work well together and also know what works and what doesn't. From what I've seen of them, the majority of their builds are geared purely to PvP, rather than PvE.
Not really too sure why you think they otherwise as on the occasions we've faced them, it's really been the teamwork that tore us apart. They quickly identified the major threats in our team and nullified them immediately. As soon as this was done, they then systematicaly divided and conquered our weaker members. At the same time, any of the threats that had been identifed were kept in place by teamwork, with players breaking off in an orderly fashion to keep them in place.
Like Jumanji, I've also heard very little about the other groups mentioned so until I hear that one of these has been beating AoW in PvP regularly in recent times, they will be regarded as the experts by me. Regular wins eliminate the fact it could be a 'fluke' result and recent means there's no point beating them 6 weeks ago when AoW haven't lost since and have learned a lot more.
The only other PvP group i've really heard mentioned as being very good but not in the same league as AoW, I was actually surprised to hear that they 'won't fight AoW because we can't beat them'.
Personally, my attitude is that we learnt a lot from the AoW whooping and have already identified some changes and tactics to work on. Give us another couple of weeks and we'll be ready to face them again. While I know we won't beat them, we'll put in a better showing than last time and be able to learn a bit more from them.
Well, Union is the unofficial RP server, so although I do love my PvP, I am still an RPer... Not too many of PvPers around on Union atm though...
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Art of War are very active in PvP from what I've seen. Whenever we ask for PvP raids etc, they always seem to be the ones who are first to reply.
They also have a core of PvP players who have been honing tactics and builds in the arena for a very long while. This means they work well together and also know what works and what doesn't. From what I've seen of them, the majority of their builds are geared purely to PvP, rather than PvE.
Not really too sure why you think they otherwise as on the occasions we've faced them, it's really been the teamwork that tore us apart. They quickly identified the major threats in our team and nullified them immediately. As soon as this was done, they then systematicaly divided and conquered our weaker members. At the same time, any of the threats that had been identifed were kept in place by teamwork, with players breaking off in an orderly fashion to keep them in place.
Like Jumanji, I've also heard very little about the other groups mentioned so until I hear that one of these has been beating AoW in PvP regularly in recent times, they will be regarded as the experts by me. Regular wins eliminate the fact it could be a 'fluke' result and recent means there's no point beating them 6 weeks ago when AoW haven't lost since and have learned a lot more.
The only other PvP group i've really heard mentioned as being very good but not in the same league as AoW, I was actually surprised to hear that they 'won't fight AoW because we can't beat them'.
Personally, my attitude is that we learnt a lot from the AoW whooping and have already identified some changes and tactics to work on. Give us another couple of weeks and we'll be ready to face them again. While I know we won't beat them, we'll put in a better showing than last time and be able to learn a bit more from them.
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i don't want to take anything away from AoW cos they're nice guys and are always willing to fight time and time again no matter the odds but we have beat them time and time again, often by a large amount, on monday night we lost to the best 8man french team 21-0, they lost to the same team 117-1, do i really need to go on?
please feel free to come along on monday nights on test server at 8pm to watch all the pvp'rs in action
once again i am in no way putting down AoW as they are great guys and always willing to fight and learn
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Yes, it is because of the large amount of active players they have got.
Tbh, i've rarely seen any member of "The Three Lions" organizing events, challenging SG's, or even just out and about.
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You wont see the Three Lions around paragon because there is only 3 of us...(well, 4 now that we decided to let Lady join).
You'll also find that the union team for the International Challenge that you joined us for on monday was originally my team, but ks and x took over while I was away.
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
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Not really too sure why you think they otherwise as on the occasions we've faced them, it's really been the teamwork that tore us apart. They quickly identified the major threats in our team and nullified them immediately. As soon as this was done, they then systematicaly divided and conquered our weaker members. At the same time, any of the threats that had been identifed were kept in place by teamwork, with players breaking off in an orderly fashion to keep them in place.
Like Jumanji, I've also heard very little about the other groups mentioned so until I hear that one of these has been beating AoW in PvP regularly in recent times, they will be regarded as the experts by me. Regular wins eliminate the fact it could be a 'fluke' result and recent means there's no point beating them 6 weeks ago when AoW haven't lost since and have learned a lot more.
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I think otherwise because in the 20 or so matches that teams I have created have fought against Art of War, they have won a grand total of 1 match (a very unbalanced 3v3).
I have nothing against them and get on well with most, so I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but they are far from the 'experts' you portray them to be.
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
Does anyone know how I can translate the French posts into English?
As it stands they are the experts, (if we are going by week by week fights to date), and nobody else.
Gorgog
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Does anyone know how I can translate the French posts into English?
As it stands they are the experts, (if we are going by week by week fights to date), and nobody else.
Gorgog
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define experts? if u r talking about 8man battles and if by french u mean LU then yes, others french teams arent so dominate. however pentad is a whole different ball park as we'll see on monday
Well i'm seriously considering pushing myself fully into the PvP scene, do The Three Lions allow any person in, or are they looking for full commitment?
Right to set the record straight here.
Art of War has developed over time into a PVP supergroup, are we active? YES, are we ambitious with our journeys? YES, but more important we all ENJOY the aspect of PVP. - we do not however have the perfect class, or builds, or skill to tear down some opponents. as an SG our motive was to succeed into base raiding as this was common fun to all members, and its safe to say that we have exceled in this area well enough to establish an unbeaten record thus far. - base raids are one thing. and Arena is a different concept of PVP, one to add that we are still entertaining the idea and soon we will be correct in playing even levels with a lot of the inter-server challenges that happen on a weekly basis with our new toons that are in progress.
But, Does our enjoyment of PVP lessen the fact that we are not a solid group against differnt opponents than yoruself? that clearly has all the correct tricks and builds to counter most in PVP - we on the other hand do not have yet. but we still attend for the enjoyment/expereince sake.
Out of our SG core, we have a few of us that are PVP orientated the rest just enjoy it.. and as you well know, 3 peopel or so cannot win agaisnt a 8 man dedicated team.. - we are certianly not the type of people that suggest "No you cant play your builds sucks and you have lack of expereince" - we offer PVP to all, as its a game that needs to be shared plain and simple.
Credit does go to three lions/defient & indeed french for there excelent choice of builds and skill at pvp to one that Art of War are no match for just yet.
Although I would still like to think that we are not as degraded as you made us out to be.
Thankyou for listining..
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define experts
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"a spert under pressure" as my dad used to say .
Actually dont really get it but still... Think "expert" is very subjective but was going on recent performance.
Its a pitty that people do seem to be trying to argue who the "best" pvp SG or teams are, (not aiming this at you).
As far as I see it these matches are all about having fun and learning more about teaming and what you can do. Would be a pitty if it ended up with RL competition.
Gorgog
P.S. Honestly though is there a way to read their posts? My French is very poor .
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The downside of this seems to be that not many people really want to face them as the one sided battles take the fun out of PvP and unless you have a full team of PvP builds, you don't really have much of a chance.
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No, you need a team full of people with PvP SKILL. There is a difference between PvE skill and PvP skill. Builds have practically nothing to do with it.
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So you mean i can come up with a Claw/SR scrapper with Flutty, Jump Kick, 2 attacks from the primary and 3 powers from the secondary, filled with pool powers and have a chance against Chives and Seiche?
Good to know, I always thought that build would've been gimped for PvP and I had no chance.
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if u had PvP skill u wudnt pick those powers....he clearly meant primary/secondary powers, if u picked sensible powers there is no reason, behind a good player, why claws/sr couldnt do well, especially as claws is getting better soon
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If the skill really was _more_ important than the build, then I could pick _any_ build and slot my powers any way I want and be as effective as anyone else.
It was like that in the old Ultima Online, before Age of Shadows ruined it all: you could've picked any skills you wanted, but with the _skill_ you could've kept up with anyone else.
These days every MMOG is goin towards a play style where you have to pick the right toon or the right class, or the right powersets to be able to keep up in pvp, skill is far less important than the build..
Skill in chosing the build? Then it's _indeed_ about the build, the PvP skill is not seen in chosing powersets, but in how you play them and if they were really balanced even a Claw/SR could keep up with some other uber build like BS/Regen..