I like blizzard games, but i think they must have been smoking something when they came up with that idea. I agree the current situation isnt great but I dont think i'd like to see this implemented. I posted my own solution in suggestions which might interest you.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
[ QUOTE ]
I like blizzard games, but i think they must have been smoking something when they came up with that idea. I agree the current situation isnt great but I dont think i'd like to see this implemented. I posted my own solution in suggestions which might interest you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Where is your idea? I cant find it. Also what do you not like about the above one?
Hm thought about it...CoH is too dynamic/fast for this solution to work.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
I think thats a terrible idea.
Controllers have holds, its their main thing and to get them to indulge in some form of sub game while a stalker comes up from behind and [censored] you is not pvp. Blasters have no mez protection but can blow the attackee to kingdom come, its all swings and roundabouts. The mezz factor is fine as it is, it does next to no damage and is mainly a support character. Whats next? someone healing the opposition isnt fair on the person who is not getting healed to have his opponent restored to full health, what about someone with mezz protection, thats not fair for people with mezz powers, perhaps we need to come up with a sub game in order to see if each and every power hits/defends and is effective 
I dont mean to be rude in anyway and Im sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but the pvp system may not be perfect but it is pretty good. No AT is overpowered and all have their strengths, seeing as how there is a specific insp to negate mezz I dont see a problem with the system.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
I think thats a terrible idea.
Controllers have holds, its their main thing and to get them to indulge in some form of sub game while a stalker comes up from behind and [censored] you is not pvp.
Blasters have no mez protection but can blow the attackee to kingdom come, its all swings and roundabouts. The mezz factor is fine as it is, it does next to no damage and is mainly a support character. Whats next? someone healing the opposition isnt fair on the person who is not getting healed to have his opponent restored to full health, what about someone with mezz protection, thats not fair for people with mezz powers, perhaps we need to come up with a sub game in order to see if each and every power hits/defends and is effective
I dont mean to be rude in anyway and Im sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but the pvp system may not be perfect but it is pretty good. No AT is overpowered and all have their strengths, seeing as how there is a specific insp to negate mezz I dont see a problem with the system.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im sorry i just dont agree with you. I understand your argument and appreciate that your being polite and answering my post with some courtesy , I will try to do the same.
I dont believe that all the ATs are balanced and that PvP is done as well as it could be done. I also dont believe that the way to finding a solution is to keep this system the same.
Let me approach this from another angle, using a philosophy of participation. When you are attacked you can heal. You are participating in the game. When they heal you can attack. You are still participating. When someone debuffs you, you can try to run and drop the debuffs. You are participating in the game. When someone slows you, you can jump around and try to escape. You are participating in the game. When you are mezzed you sit there and cross your arms. You are not participating in the game. There is nothing you can do about it. The solution Ive proposed allows some active participation, however futile it may be, so that pvp is still fun for the person being mezzed. It takes steps to making the system slightly more balanced but overall more fun. I mean it couldnt be less fun than just sitting there now cant it!
You say that the system should have the controllers involved in a sub game. What sub game?? What are you referring to? The whole OBE idea was something for the person being mezzed, the controller isnt involved in any sub game. If Im not wrong I think you were trying to say that controllers were more of a support class so it was ok that they have status attacks like this, also because they do next to no damage. You do know about the controller inherent right? Triple damage on holds? With regards to the support question all I have to say is, why is it that controllers are better at dueling in pvp than all the other ATs?
You say that there is no problem when you have a insp to negate the effects of mez. Im telling that IS the problem because it prevents any real solution from being proposed. What do you do when you dont have any insps left? Stand there and die? Play another game? Come on to the forums and make a creative suggestion? 
I dont have the luxury of a pocket empath or kin defender. Heck i hardly ever have a team mate. Its stupid for a defender to fight solo in the arena I know. But I have a better chance for survival than fighting in a PvP PUG team.
Another suggestion would be to build another AT and get him to 50. But Im a casual player I dont have time for that. Give me a free char respect so I can make that ill/rad controller or that ice/energy blaster or even that spines/regen scrapper. Better yet, make it easier to powerlevel so I can do it myself. I suppose you could say that I made a misinformed decision (to coin a phrase from statesmen). If I had known it would be this difficult to play a defender in the PvP I wouldnt have chosen to make him in the first place.
In summary, I do not believe that the current PvP system is the most balanced and the most fun that it can be. I believe it can be better. I also believe that arguments like The pvp game can never be balanced only serve to prevent us from finding a solution and there is a solution! Also, lets get one thing straight, this is by no means a cry to nerf controllers. I understand that controllers depend very much so on holds and my intention is not to take that away from them.
[ QUOTE ]
Hm thought about it...CoH is too dynamic/fast for this solution to work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes thats true, i cant argue with that and it is one of the reasons i believe that pvp isn't as fun as it could be.
It's an overly-complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Even though PvP isn't perfectly balanced, mez effects can be countered - even avoided - and I don't think throwing an overly-elaborate, and quite likely impossible with the current engine, "game" into proceedings would help at all.
[ QUOTE ]
It's an overly-complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Even though PvP isn't perfectly balanced, mez effects can be countered - even avoided - and I don't think throwing an overly-elaborate, and quite likely impossible with the current engine, "game" into proceedings would help at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Best answer ever. Who said mezzing was a problem? PvP in CoH in the PvP zones is based on teamwork and complementing between AT's. Team properly and you will definetely see results. What is a real issue in PvP right now is toggle dropping. As for balance in wow well dont let me get started. If you not have a rogue or a shadow priest then you are dead for sure.
Toggle dropping is the main and most important issue in the pvp zones and hopefully it will be fixed. The rest you simply need to keep practise.
[ QUOTE ]
You say that the system should have the controllers involved in a sub game. What sub game?? What are you referring to? The whole OBE idea was something for the person being mezzed, the controller isnt involved in any sub game. If Im not wrong I think you were trying to say that controllers were more of a support class so it was ok that they have status attacks like this, also because they do next to no damage. You do know about the controller inherent right? Triple damage on holds? With regards to the support question all I have to say is, why is it that controllers are better at dueling in pvp than all the other ATs?
[/ QUOTE ]
The controllers dont pack large damage what they pack though is big big debuffs that make you go crazy. Except from the ill/rad combo no other controller can kill as fast as the rest AT's. And the ill rad still depends a lot on debuffs. however duels is not what the pvp zones are about and if you take a walk around pvp zones you ll see that the ill rads dont perform as good as other controllers that act as SUPPORT.
As for your ideas for solving the casual gamer issue i not think powerlevelling is really a wise idea. You could really suggest for a pvp slot possibility just like GW system that would allow a pvp character for use in pvp zones only.
As for the whole OBE idea...in WoW is the dumbest thing ever and has allowed the whole corpse camping griefing.
In CoH try get back to your body when your body is constantly teleported by a moving tper.Let the griefing commence.
Sorry but i ll say no. Unfeasible idea and no point for OBE in this game.In fact i prefer a fast death to get back in game asap rather than chasing myself around so i break out from a hold.
Also, how would you explain this addition from a storyline point of view?
@SinghMC
If you want to look at my own post do a search on holds in the suggestions forum.
I cant really think of a better way to put it but i dont like the idea cos i think its a bit silly.
As for toggles, leave them alone. How am i meant to have a chance against mr stalker and mr brute if i cant drop his toggles? 
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
[ QUOTE ]
As for toggles, leave them alone. How am i meant to have a chance against mr stalker and mr brute if i cant drop his toggles?
[/ QUOTE ]
Speaking as a Blapper, toggle-dropping in PvP has gone too far - it doesn't need to be removed, but it needs to be toned down in the interests of fairness.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking as a Blapper, toggle-dropping in PvP has gone too far - it doesn't need to be removed, but it needs to be toned down in the interests of fairness.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Syn is completely correct. "
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking as a Blapper, toggle-dropping in PvP has gone too far - it doesn't need to be removed, but it needs to be toned down in the interests of fairness.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Syn is completely correct. "
[/ QUOTE ]
TG is completely correct in stating that "Syn is completely correct. "
I would hate to see toggle dropping removed because its really the only way I can take down a stalker/tank/scrapper/bla.
Toning it down is prolly the best option and removing it completely from stalker AS's too (speaking from my tanks PoV)
[ QUOTE ]
I think thats a terrible idea.
Controllers have holds, its their main thing and to get them to indulge in some form of sub game while a stalker comes up from behind and [censored] you is not pvp. Blasters have no mez protection but can blow the attackee to kingdom come, its all swings and roundabouts. The mezz factor is fine as it is, it does next to no damage and is mainly a support character. Whats next? someone healing the opposition isnt fair on the person who is not getting healed to have his opponent restored to full health, what about someone with mezz protection, thats not fair for people with mezz powers, perhaps we need to come up with a sub game in order to see if each and every power hits/defends and is effective
I dont mean to be rude in anyway and Im sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but the pvp system may not be perfect but it is pretty good. No AT is overpowered and all have their strengths, seeing as how there is a specific insp to negate mezz I dont see a problem with the system.
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't play a lot of squishies do you?
IN MEMORIUM OF GAYBABY
CRUELY TAKEN FROM THIS WORLD WHILE SO YOUNG
Toggle dropping is what makes the blaster AT viable in PvP if they loose it in any extend, they will be outshined by scrappers. There will be no reason to roll a blaster instead of a scrapper.
If they tone down toggle dropping blasters will need compensation in other areas. More damage is not a solution it will just ruin the game for squishies.
I would like to ask why toggle dropping is overpowered as it is now? A good scrapper can easily fight with cookie cut blasters as it is now, and tanks can still tank with Hp.
The real problem is probally that blasters mature faster for PVP and are therefor overpowered in zones like sirens. Just like stalkers can be in the same zones.
A Paragon Defender
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think thats a terrible idea.
Controllers have holds, its their main thing and to get them to indulge in some form of sub game while a stalker comes up from behind and [censored] you is not pvp. Blasters have no mez protection but can blow the attackee to kingdom come, its all swings and roundabouts. The mezz factor is fine as it is, it does next to no damage and is mainly a support character. Whats next? someone healing the opposition isnt fair on the person who is not getting healed to have his opponent restored to full health, what about someone with mezz protection, thats not fair for people with mezz powers, perhaps we need to come up with a sub game in order to see if each and every power hits/defends and is effective
I dont mean to be rude in anyway and Im sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but the pvp system may not be perfect but it is pretty good. No AT is overpowered and all have their strengths, seeing as how there is a specific insp to negate mezz I dont see a problem with the system.
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't play a lot of squishies do you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is true for most of the people that play on the EU servers. In the US servers when talking about mez protection there was a huge call to to do something about it. This is because many many people play squishies (and im not talking about the empath kind). Ive been playing this game for nearly two years now and i started off in the US servers. Then i transferred over the uk servers a few months ago. One thing that struck me was the complete lack of knowledge about defenders amoung the people here. Also in pvp i never ever seem to see another defender except for the empthay kind. The fact that you tell me that there is no problem with the mezzing is telling me that you havent really played a true squishy before. I dont think you guys really understand the problem from a squishie point of view. The fact that you say toggle dropping is the biggest problems tells me that you most likely pvp with scrappers or tankers. Maybe my solution isn't the the best to this problem, but i assure there is a problem. Just as the squishy community on the US forums will tell you. Back when i was there it was the number one complaint that they had about pvp. Think about that before you say mezzing is not a problem. Also not one of you have given me an answer to my previous question.
[ QUOTE ]
Toggle dropping is what makes the blaster AT viable in PvP if they loose it in any extend, they will be outshined by scrappers. There will be no reason to roll a blaster instead of a scrapper.
[/ QUOTE ]
A much higher sustainable DPS is the reason to roll a Blaster, pure and simple. As things stand currently, I can be fairly sure of removing all of an opponent's toggles in under ten seconds - regardless of whether I need to or not. Being able to do this occasionally, I have no issue with - being able to do this repeatedly, without failure, is something I feel needs to be addressed. I've had multiple instances now where my (33) En/En Blapper has been isolated by Brutes in Sirens, TF'd down to half-health-or-below, recovered from the disorient without BF's, hit Energy Punch > Bonesmasher > Energy Punch > Stun, and easily claimed the victory from there - all because of toggle-dropping. Maybe I'm just awesome, or just maybe it's that toggle-dropping is out of kilter - and as much as the former is true , I'm minded to think that the latter is too.
Blapping shouldn't be an instant-win scenario in a PvP zone, be it against Scrappers or anyone else - even without toggle-dropping, Blasters still have a significant advantage against Scrappers, in being able to engage at range, and kite if necessary. Given your sentence - "blasters mature faster for PVP" - is it not right that they shouldn't gain any more benefits at lower levels?
Personally, I'd be very much in favour of a scaling toggle-dropping system, where toggle-dropping powers increase in effectiveness at different level ranges. Maybe at the top level, there might be scope for the current figures as they stand - I'd have to wait until the CoV cap raises to 50 and assess the impact of that on the new PvP zone before making a comment on that - but the system as it is is imbalanced and needs rectifying.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think you guys really understand the problem from a squishie point of view.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you say toggle dropping is the biggest problems tells me that you most likely pvp with scrappers or tankers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong on both counts - my main PvP toons are both squishies (Blaster/Corruptor), and I fail to see mezzing as an almighty problem. You either carry BFs, team with players with de-mezzing powers, you find other ways to avoid being mezzed, or you get mezzed. I don't know where you've been playing, but I've seen a healthy number of types of Defenders in the PvP zones in Union - Kinetic, Empath, Rad, Storm, Dark, FF - the only gap has been in Sonics and Trick Arrow. The main problem for Defenders isn't mezzing at all, it's that Controllers have access to the majority of the Defender primaries and have more useful powers on top of that, other than anaemic Blaster powers (generally speaking). Even worse, some Controller secondaries are more effective in PvP than Defender primaries - I understand this is being looked into, however. That in itself is more a problem for Defenders than mezzing is.
[ QUOTE ]
Just as the squishy community on the US forums will tell you. Back when i was there it was the number one complaint that they had about pvp. Think about that before you say mezzing is not a problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
In absolute fairness, the US forums are hardly a haven of reason and logic - more a den of nerfherding and whining. If anyone has a perceived advantage, you can bet there'll be a chorus of complaints. Our community is sufficiently developed and matured so as to be able to decide for ourselves what the issues with PvP are - we certainly don't need to take any cues from the US.
[ QUOTE ]
Also not one of you have given me an answer to my previous question.
[/ QUOTE ]
I came into this post late - remind me what that question was?
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think thats a terrible idea.
Controllers have holds, its their main thing and to get them to indulge in some form of sub game while a stalker comes up from behind and [censored] you is not pvp. Blasters have no mez protection but can blow the attackee to kingdom come, its all swings and roundabouts. The mezz factor is fine as it is, it does next to no damage and is mainly a support character. Whats next? someone healing the opposition isnt fair on the person who is not getting healed to have his opponent restored to full health, what about someone with mezz protection, thats not fair for people with mezz powers, perhaps we need to come up with a sub game in order to see if each and every power hits/defends and is effective
I dont mean to be rude in anyway and Im sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but the pvp system may not be perfect but it is pretty good. No AT is overpowered and all have their strengths, seeing as how there is a specific insp to negate mezz I dont see a problem with the system.
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't play a lot of squishies do you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is true for most of the people that play on the EU servers. In the US servers when talking about mez protection there was a huge call to to do something about it. This is because many many people play squishies (and im not talking about the empath kind). Ive been playing this game for nearly two years now and i started off in the US servers. Then i transferred over the uk servers a few months ago. One thing that struck me was the complete lack of knowledge about defenders amoung the people here. Also in pvp i never ever seem to see another defender except for the empthay kind. The fact that you tell me that there is no problem with the mezzing is telling me that you havent really played a true squishy before. I dont think you guys really understand the problem from a squishie point of view. The fact that you say toggle dropping is the biggest problems tells me that you most likely pvp with scrappers or tankers. Maybe my solution isn't the the best to this problem, but i assure there is a problem. Just as the squishy community on the US forums will tell you. Back when i was there it was the number one complaint that they had about pvp. Think about that before you say mezzing is not a problem. Also not one of you have given me an answer to my previous question.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think its a bit insulting to throw around phrases like "complete lack of knowledge about defenders amoung the people here."
Anyway, I agree the current situation isnt a good one, i hate getting held, 9 times out of 10 i wont live to escape, thats not a fun way to loose. However, to put it politely, I just dont think your solution is very good. Also, what previous question of yours wasnt answered? If I didnt answer I prolly missed it.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Syn. Scrappers have a higher sustained dps than blasters. The endurance is much higher on blasters. If you want to beat the [censored] out of tough single target you're better of rolling a scrapper. Almost the same damage, better endurance and defences!
Blasters only have higher (not much) frontload damage which by no means is enough to balance the AT with a scrapper.
Scrappers even have a higher frontload damage with criticals.
Did someone say range? Lets just face it, you dont get kills at range unless you are a spines/* scrapper.
Yes, a blapper can remove all my toggles in less than 10 secs. Captain Freon can even do it in less than 5 secs.
I still beat the [censored] out of him in the arena and hes one of the best on defiant.
Hell I even tried against Gatlin with the same result.
Up close Im just as bad as a blaster (post 32 that is).
Soz for ruining your post with this OT subject.
A Paragon Defender
I've been 2 shotted by a lot more blasters than I have scrappers. So I completely disagree with your post.
The problem is as allways how to ballance a game. Toggle droppers are what blasters get cause of their lag of everything else except damage. Scrappers(the other damage) have protections and ok defences and much higher Hp, what do the blasters get in return? A bit higher damage and a way to remove defences. As a blaster I can tell you will die more than a scrapper you will have to bring BFs cause you have no mez protection.
Blaster werent given defences cause they were given the means to remove them. I think that is very fair.
So who wins a scrapper without defences or a blaster? bit lower damage and higher hp) or highger damage and lower hp. Its ballances out.
Who wins a tank or a blaster, well much higher hp and moderate damage against low hp and high damage? about the same.
Trollers and defenders are support and have access to completly different power and ways to win.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
[ QUOTE ]
I've been 2 shotted by a lot more blasters than I have scrappers. So I completely disagree with your post.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again this is in Sirens. CoH isnt balanced for Sirens. People really should start fighting in Warburg. It has much better balance between AT's
Edit: I have 2 shotted lots of things. I can do it in more easily in Warburg than blasters.
A Paragon Defender
Hello everyone,
Let me start off by saying that I hate mezzing in pvp. I think the way that people are mezzed and break out is [censored] and badly thought out. So this post is a proposed solution to correct what I consider as a flaw in the system. This is a draft post and i hope to refine the idea with further posts.
Ok, what is the major problem with mezzing?
From the point of view of the person doing the mezzing, nothing.
From the point of view of the person being mezzed, alot. The most prominant argument I have against it is that once your mezzed there is nothing you can do. Its a kind of either or situation (similar to the problem with defence). You stand there holding your head like a sitting duck while your opponent kicks the [censored] out of you. That is no fun. Especially if your a defender or a blaster and have absolutely no resistence to mez attacks without the use of a BF. There is alot of mezzing in this game, so when you pvp your bound to be hit by them and if you dont have a BF when that happens then its game over. As I said that is no fun and is not at all fair.
However the other problem is this; How do you make a system that is both fair to the people doing the mezzing and the people being mezzed. I mean if everyone had resistence to mez attacks then there would be no point in having those attacks. So they have to be useful for something.
In summary the problem is a two sided coin. On one side you have to maintain the usefulness of the mez and on the other you have to ensure that people being mezzed have a fair chance.
Now we move on to my solution. To illustrate it better i would like to refer to a feature i saw in WoW when my housemate was playing the game. When somebody dies in WoW they seem to have what id describe as an Out of Body Experience (OBE). Their physical bodies remain on the spot where they die and their spirit self is transported to a safe zone where they there have to make their way back to their bodies. Once they touch their bodies they regain control of their physical selves and then continue questing. I only saw a little bit of it and that is my understanding of how it works. Forgive me if i am wrong but it is just to illustrate my solution.
What if in CoH pvp, when a hero/villain is mezzed, instead of being held there like a buffoon not being able to do anything, they have an OBE. The mez KBs the spirit self of the hero/villain out of their physical bodies. The magnitude of the mez would determine how far the spirt self is KB'd away. Now there exists the spirit self and the physical self of the hero/villain. The player can only control the spirit self. This form cannot attack or cannot be attacked. Its like a phase shift if you will. The physical self stands there and is opening to attack and can take damage. The aim then is to get the spirit self back to the physical self before the hero/villain dies. If the hero/villain dies, then his spirit self is transported back to his physical body and he dies in the normal way. If he manages to get back to his body then the hero/villain regains control of their physical bodies in the normal way. All the mez status's are dropped from him and mez suppression is applied, as normal. All good and done.
But wait theres more. In the spirit form the player can take a BF that will instantly return him to his body or someone else can free him using CM or ID. The number of mez attacks that stack will allow the mezzer to slow down the speed of the spirit form. So therefore the more mez attacks that stack the slower the speed of the spirit form. In addition to give things more flavour, the very first power that the mezzee activates will have a boost associated with it. For example it it was an attack it will do more damage than normal, a debuff will debuff more than normal, a hold will have a high magnitude and a heal will recover more hit points than normal. But it only works for the first and only action.
I think this is much more of a fair system because it benefits both the mezzer and the mezzee. The mezzer gets the guaranteed amount of time that the mezzee will be mezzed because of the KB into spirit form. Also the mezzee has a fighting chance to return to his body and save himself. The way resistences work will be the same as before no change. The only difference occurs when someone is successfully mezzed. In addition it adds a bit more of an interesting dynamic to the game. This way the player is still actively participating in the fight as opposed to sitting there arms crossed and waiting to either die or for the hold to be released.
This is a very general idea and i would like to address it in more detail specific to the different type of mezzes and status attacks. However it is for now a start. What do you guys think?