[ QUOTE ]
What is this talk about looking away from the fight. Do you guys know when BU is ready?
I play a regen scrapper. I have 2 heals and build up. I need to know when they are ready to be used. If I get toggle dropped, I need to know what toggle Im missing.
I pretty much have to look at the power tray most of the time anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, on all my toons I keep one eye on my power tray, it's the only thing that lets me know what's where. It's not so important on my Defender as I've got my recharge times pretty much down on brain-timing, but on my Blaster or Scrapper or any other toon I need that info, because I vary my chain so much.
As for the clicking thing, most of my toons have 80% of there powers on the Num Pad. But that mouse always gets a hell of a work out click wise as I've got targets to change, insps to use, powers to click that aren't bound...
The way forward isn't Click -or- Bind, it's being able to play your toon your own way. Simple as, Imaginary is freakishly fast and he's a click [censored], and I've teamed with Plight and his reaction speed is pretty slick too. Well, when he's not face down infront of a +3 mob. 
Em... I forget the question... Ah yes, blapping. It's all about knowing what to hit when! There's no point brawling a boss, or using Total Focus on a minion with almost no health (unless you like showing off).
[ QUOTE ]
brawl, ROFL, i know ur not joking weasel, but sheesh, have u even seen the melee attack damage of blasters?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough Plight, but I can land a brawl hit WHILST my Power Thrust has thrown them 30 yards away.
Still stick by brawl; it's cheap and effective.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
brawl, ROFL, i know ur not joking weasel, but sheesh, have u even seen the melee attack damage of blasters?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough Plight, but I can land a brawl hit WHILST my Power Thrust has thrown them 30 yards away.
Still stick by brawl; it's cheap and effective.
[/ QUOTE ]
and its a free toggle dropper that works wonders in pvp if u acc it up
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
brawl, ROFL, i know ur not joking weasel, but sheesh, have u even seen the melee attack damage of blasters?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough Plight, but I can land a brawl hit WHILST my Power Thrust has thrown them 30 yards away.
Still stick by brawl; it's cheap and effective.
[/ QUOTE ]
and its a free toggle dropper that works wonders in pvp if u acc it up
[/ QUOTE ]Most blaster melees have much higher toggle drop than brawl though... not to mention the insane damage.
It's fairly clear from HCI research that needless mouse operations are very slow compared to the keyboard. I know this is going to start the whole drama cycle again but meh, the facts are the facts. If you can compensate and keep up by clicking powers, good for you, but it's an inherently slower control method and you'd spend less time operating the controls if you used the keyboard - and be a better player, no matter how well you do at the moment.
This effect is masked to a degree in CoX by the default keyboard layout being clumsy; powers and movement are both on the left hand, power 0 is a long walk from WASD, and teammate selection is slow.
I use a set that overcomes these deficiencies - by no means the only possible such set. Movement on WASDQE, with Q and E handling left and right sidesteps (bit of a cycle of reincarnation here, this being the keyboard pattern for mouseless Doom); teammates on 1-8, insp on function keys. Powers go on the numberpad, which the right hand can cover very effectively, with Alt and Ctrl used for additional power trays. Nearest and cycle enemies on numpad + - /, for easy selection of the next victim. It's very quick and I don't ordinarily touch the mouse at all.
Or, y'know, you could use shift+number to select team members. It's what I do, and then my main powers are in trays numbered 1-5, which are activated by pressing the numbers 1-5. If I want to heal someone, I use alt+2. If I want healing aura, I use alt+1. The only power I have bound is clear mind, to the numpad (with each number corresponding to a team slot). Everything else I click.
[ QUOTE ]
And EVERYTING isn't down to personal preferance. I remember way back in the day, when mouselook was introduced [...] -everyone- "converted" to mouse look within the year.
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed EVERYONE converted to mouse look..
Maybe these guys are still living *way back in the days*..
[ QUOTE ]
may i remind u that i play witout a mouse
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't ordinarily touch the mouse at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
[sarcasm]
You two fools really should listen to SixKilla advice, EVERYONE uses mouse look, what are you doing without a mouse or without touching it!
CONVERT TO MOUSE LOOK!
[/sarcasm]
Omg, lol...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
brawl, ROFL, i know ur not joking weasel, but sheesh, have u even seen the melee attack damage of blasters?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough Plight, but I can land a brawl hit WHILST my Power Thrust has thrown them 30 yards away.
Still stick by brawl; it's cheap and effective.
[/ QUOTE ]
and its a free toggle dropper that works wonders in pvp if u acc it up
[/ QUOTE ]Most blaster melees have much higher toggle drop than brawl though... not to mention the insane damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
But with a single recharge, brawl is ALWAYS ready and acts as a mini follow if they zip past you. YMMV though
[ QUOTE ]
What is this talk about looking away from the fight. Do you guys know when BU is ready?
I play a regen scrapper. I have 2 heals and build up. I need to know when they are ready to be used. If I get toggle dropped, I need to know what toggle Im missing.
[/ QUOTE ]
But you don't have to look at the power tray for every single power you are going to execute (if you are using the keyboard to some degree anyways).
If I'd have to look at the powertray and "aim" my mouse on the power-buttons for -every- power on my blapper, I wouldn't do anything BUT look at the powertray.
And anyway, noticing a power being recharged you can see in the corner of your eye without focusing your sight on it, but to hit it with the mousepointer does require focus on where you click, depth of field vision to see exactly where the button is and hand to eye coordination to actually hit it, all at the same time. That's three things just to execute one power. Not to mention the time that is wasted on actually doing these three things. And in the end, you've done ONE thing.
When using the mouse and keyboard together, I can move my toon, execute a power, change targets AND have a COMPLETE overview of the battle at the same time.
But of course, proving (to yourself) you don't have a squint and proving (to yourself) that you can position your mousepointer where your eye's focus is 18 times during EACH and every battle is MUCH more important than actually being efficient. <- This was sarcasm if you didn't catch it.
[ QUOTE ]
Indeed EVERYONE converted to mouse look..
Maybe these guys are still living *way back in the days*..
[/ QUOTE ]
No, you see. YOU are living way back in the days. Mouse-look isn't an issue in CoX because that's by default on the right mouse button. I used mouse-look as an EXAMPLE. (That is a similar case that constitutes a model or precedent, if you didn't know.)
And in your OP, you did ask for a more efficient way of executing your melee powers, even though you didn't really do a very good job of it. (I may have gotten this wrong, as a few others also apparently did. And if I did indeed get it wrong, I appologize.)
I also appologize for coming off a tad harsh in my first reply, but the fact remains that though there are different ways to control your toon, not all of them are equally efficient. And Point-And-Click ISN'T that efficient.
I have my clicks all nicely lined up in order, I don't need to look where I'm clicking cause after 10 months of playing I know..., nudge the mouse a tiny bit to the side and click next power! means that I can focus on using my left hand to move around, jump, run turn and all that jazz...
[ QUOTE ]
I have my clicks all nicely lined up in order, I don't need to look where I'm clicking cause after 10 months of playing I know..., nudge the mouse a tiny bit to the side and click next power! means that I can focus on using my left hand to move around, jump, run turn and all that jazz...
[/ QUOTE ]
So you never use your mouse for ANYTHING but clicking powers? And you NEVER get your mouse out of alignment? And even in an 8 man indoor mission, you never have to use your mouse to maybe select a specific mob, or click on a member to see where he/she is, or turn the screen around, or keep the screen from turning around when performing an action on a mob or team member that's perpendicular to your screen?
And there are many things beside these that can only be done with the mouse. with the wasd-method, you can do these things at the same time as fighting or healing or controlling or whatever it is you are doing.
Of course I use the mouse to execute powers on occation, it's not that doing this in it self is a bad thing. It's just that using a combination of the mouse and the keyboard allowes for a MUCH MUCH MUCH more flexible gamestyle, and you can adapt to -any- situation you care to be in. Learning to be flexible enough to adapt, is the single most important ingredient in being effective.
Dude just ask people I team with how effective I am...
Anyone out there who has teamed with Blapper, am I effective? Do I pull my weight for the team?
When fighting I never click anything aside from either a new target or the powers, I generally use the direction I am facing and tab to select the appropriate target.
It is not "how" you choose powers that makes you good, it is HOW you play the game. If you're on union come team with me sometime and I'll show you how effective I am. If you're into it come to the arena sometime and I'll show you how effective I am. Use whatever style you want to play the game dude, just don't say others are ineffective or worse players than you because they use mouse and keys.
A bad player in the game is hard to describe. I have played with tanks who refuse to take aggro, I have played with blasters whose desire is to be a tank, a defender who would rather attack than watch the back of the team around him. These people are entitled to play their build as they will (please note I have toon called Blapper) and some of these players are VERY effective, just because they don't conform to your interpretation of the "best" way to play the game doesn't make them a liability or a menace to society. There are bad players out there - clicking doesn't make you one.
[ QUOTE ]
It is not "how" you choose powers that makes you good, it is HOW you play the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, so how good a footballplayer is isn't down to how he kicks the ball -at all-?
Like I said in an earlier post, EVERTYTHING isn't only down to personal preferance. There are actually some methods of doing something that are more effective than others. Honestly.
And (like I've said many times already) I'm not saying I am a better player, I'm saying the combination between mouse and keyboard is much more effective than using the mouse alone.
Using the mouse you have 4 directions and maybe seven buttons at your disposal, while using the keyboard at the same time increases your control options infinitely. Indeed, on a keyboard there is between 105 and 107 buttons.
Saying the two methods are equally effective, is like saying drum-breaks and disc-breaks work equally well on a car, because both will stop the car. It's a matter of distance. While the drum-breaks will stop the car eventually, the disc-breaks will do the same job at a much much shorter distance.
It's like saying a pony is equally good as a derby horse because they both get you from A to B. The difference is the horse will get you there in a much shorter span of time.
Point and Click works very well in Monkey Island, in Kings Quest, in DOTT and Full throttle and a shedload of other games. But in ANY software, be it games or applications, where you have more than, say, 10 functions, there has been introduced HOTKEYS to make the work/game more effective.
Point and Click is good for anything less complicated than Solitaire, but for anything with remotely complex controls it's just SLOW and OLD. Watching people using Point and Click play CoX is kind of like watching a disabled person dance. It's slightly funny, but most of the time it makes you wince in sympathy.
My point here is that some things ARE actually more effective than others, and that we're all supposed to respect each other and not hurt each others feelings doesn't change that fact.
What you PREFER is a matter of opinion, but what is -better- and -faster- and -more effective- isn't.
Again I must press the point that I'm not saying I'M better than YOU. I'm talking about different methods, and I'm not even remotely claiming that this is MY method. I learned it from people that repeatedly defeated me in any action orientated game there was. Before that I used your good OLD point and click method. And I must say that converting to this method has made me a better player than I used to be. And I've been using computers every day since I was six and I'm now 27, so it's not like I don't know how the mouse works.
I'm not saying this because I want to make you people look bad and horribly outdated. I'm saying it because it's true.
[ QUOTE ]
Saying the two methods are equally effective, is like saying drum-breaks and disc-breaks work equally well on a car, because both will stop the car. It's a matter of distance. While the drum-breaks will stop the car eventually, the disc-breaks will do the same job at a much much shorter distance.
It's like saying a pony is equally good as a derby horse because they both get you from A to B. The difference is the horse will get you there in a much shorter span of time.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol, no it's not. The effectiveness of the breaks on a car has nothing to do with reaction time or skill in any way. Also the pony analogy is flawed because you could never train a pony to be faster than a race horse, but you can play this game enough to be good enough at point and click to not have to worry about binds.
What your saying is partly true. Using binds is in principle more efficient. Read a definition of 'efficiency' and this should be obvious to anyone.
That doesn't mean that this game cannot be played just aswell without them, because the activation times of most powers mean that you can always have a power queued to activate instantly after the current one has finished. If you are quick enough with the mouse to do this whilst cycling through targets and moving then there is no problem.
Now please stop with your incessant need to be correct.
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
[ QUOTE ]
lol, no it's not. The effectiveness of the breaks on a car has nothing to do with reaction time or skill in any way. Also the pony analogy is flawed because you could never train a pony to be faster than a race horse, but you can play this game enough to be good enough at point and click to not have to worry about binds.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for making my point more clear.
In the hands (or in this example, the feet) of a novice driver, disc-breaks and drum-breaks are equally effective, but an experienced driver will recognize the increased effectiveness of the disc-breaks.
And the pony example is the same, only more pronounced. A novice rider will have an easier time riding a pony, but once rider learns to handle the derby horse, his speed does in fact increase. (EDIT: ach [cencored], I really really don't mean you guys are novice players, it was just the examples that lead to this explanation. If I offended anyone I sincearly apologize.)
Point and Click is much easier to master, but it is inherently slower than "wasd123". The problem with "wasd123" is that it has a much steeper learning curve, so while you learn to use it, you might be rubbish, but once it's in your fingers you'll see the difference. This is, of course, dependant of being able to do different things with each hand at the same time, and I do recognize that people that aren't ambidextrous (like me. 
) may struggle with this.
[ QUOTE ]
Now please stop with your incessant need to be correct.
[/ QUOTE ]
I should say "ditto", but I really AM right in this. The problem is that humans really really really don't like being told that the way they are doing things isn't the ultimate-super-leet way of doing it.
I don't have a problem with you people using point and click. Far from it. It's your completely unreasonable belief that it's the better way that's getting to me. (This was partially a joke. You figure out which part.)
You people using Point and Click just means MORE FRAGS FOR ME!! WOOHOO! 
Honestly though, I'm having a laugh here, because it's fun watching people grab on to the rocks with their bare hands, while I'm safely secured in a harness.
PS: learning to be at least partially ambidextrous will make you a hit among the ladies too.
(Although I do really mean the bulk of what I say, I'm really just pulling your leg(s) with the way it's said.)
I would understand the idea that the keyboard is better if CoX were a hair trigger game which required fast reaction times. As it stands, the attacks have a few seconds of heroic animation to complete making it more of a tactical decision type game where you queue up the next attack and target.
Since the attacks can't possibly be made faster because animation time is the same regardless and since your average player will queue the next attck up to be used immediately, doesn't it stand to reason that both methods of control operate at exactly the same efficiency.
You completely missed my point. Drum breaks and ponies cannot be practiced with/trained to be as good as discs and race horses.
In this game it is possible to play just as well by clicking the tray as it is any way, because, as i said before the animation times of powers means that you can always queue your next attack if you know what you're doing.
I dont believe that my way is better than anyone else and never said that. It is YOU who is claiming to have a better, faster way of doing things and that all other ways should be disregarded.
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
Guys, I appreciate that some of you may be enjoying this discussion, but might I humbly suggest that which control method a player uses is entirely up to them, and that while you may firmly believe that your chosen setup is the 'best', it's very likely that other players may have different opinions on what works best for them.
Or, to put it another way, this really isn't going anywhere. 
[ QUOTE ]
Lets all calm down here before Bridger comes and says that.
Everybody has right to play this game like they want except for abusing others.
Whether to click or press is down to personal preference. And that - as they say - is that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Told you so
[ QUOTE ]
Watching people using Point and Click play CoX is kind of like watching a disabled person dance. It's slightly funny, but most of the time it makes you wince in sympathy.
[/ QUOTE ] i was agreeeing with part of ur point up to here, as well as most ppls points (apart from weasel and his brawl in a PvE blapper cycle, okaaaaaay Silv (btw, that detoggle, i got teh melee holds )) BUT! saying this has pretty much discredited u as a nice person, and i dont really feel the need to take u seriously, whether i find this amusing or not, u shouldnt be saying that sorta thing here and i wont condone it on a 'nice' board.
Plight
Sorry to re-raise this but I had to share this revelation I just had.
[ QUOTE ]
Watching people using Point and Click play CoX
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh wow. Six you really don't understand what people are saying here, and I just realised what you think we are saying.
I don't know anyone, ANYONE who uses point and click to move!
You really think people here are talking about never touching wasd? That's insane. I'd guesstimate 90%+ of the playerbase of CoH/V has an FPS background.
As you said in one of your previous posts:
[ QUOTE ]
Of course I use the mouse to execute powers on occation, it's not that doing this in it self is a bad thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's all we're saying too. Mouse+WASD is used by almost everyone, I'm sure. What you said in your first post was that anyone clicking powers was killing their team. That was what we took exception to. What we continued trying to express to you was that clicking works just fine by a lot of people most of the time, which surely you shouldn't bother trying to argue with.
I have a LOT of keybinds. All my friends come to me for help for keybinds. Several of my 'panic' powers are near WASD. Yes, on my empath I have binds for things I don't care to have in my tray (TP, Recall Friend, Heal Other, AB, Fortitude etc).
It would be very helpful if you posted your toon powersets. I find buff-type toons make a load of useful binds. Melee (including blappers), shrug, not as pertinent.
But I still stand by my original point. Most of my powers will be executed with my mouse, and I do this because it is my (altogether now) personal preference.
I hope that this cleared up your point and click issues.
Shrug.
[ QUOTE ]
You really think people here are talking about never touching wasd? That's insane. I'd guesstimate 90%+ of the playerbase of CoH/V has an FPS background.
[/ QUOTE ]Heh.
Less than 90% have GAMING background, let alone FPS one...
I've done plenty of gaming, but I hate FPS. Give me a good RPG or even a good old fasioned text adventure any time.
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
(apart from weasel and his brawl in a PvE blapper cycle, okaaaaaay Silv (btw, that detoggle, i got teh melee holds ))
[/ QUOTE ]
Solid damage or reduced knockback misses that don't affect most of your opponents?
Float like a Lepidoptera, Sting like a Vespula vulgaris
[ QUOTE ]
What is this talk about looking away from the fight. Do you guys know when BU is ready?
I play a regen scrapper. I have 2 heals and build up. I need to know when they are ready to be used. If I get toggle dropped, I need to know what toggle Im missing.
I pretty much have to look at the power tray most of the time anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're one of the people I was talking off, you can keep an eye onthe tray WITHOUT losing the focus on the battle..