I dont have any numbers but as far as I know, a players 2nd set is always less powerful than there 1st, so although you can get the same powers with a controller, they wont be as potent. On top of that, you get the powers later, so if you plan on using transferance from kinetics, you will need a defender.
I play a kin/elec defender and spent a reasonable amount of time in sirens (union), I dont kill many players, but thats not really a defenders job.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Theres a Dark defender who comes in from time to time whos quite good, (for the life of me I cant remember his name atm) but he survives for a while and the debuffs and tar pit is quite annoying 
(at least while im on my brute and no impale to -fly him)
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I was thinking about taking my empath/rad into Sirens, but to do so as a solo would be suicide 
The last thing those pesky villains want is some loon running around interfering with their hunts
That said I do take him into BB occasionaly, and he lasts a good while there, getting kills is tricky unless I can find a stalker who is foolish enough to persist in trying to kill me.
[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about taking my empath/rad into Sirens, but to do so as a solo would be suicide
The last thing those pesky villains want is some loon running around interfering with their hunts
That said I do take him into BB occasionaly, and he lasts a good while there, getting kills is tricky unless I can find a stalker who is foolish enough to persist in trying to kill me.
[/ QUOTE ]
your emp would be loved by a team and hated by the stalkers and as such you would become THE number 1 target
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Dead is very much a PvE build on live at the mo, although I've got a PvP build on test which was pretty successful on in the Defiant vs Union rumble.
I'm planning to use him more in the 50 zone, as he lacks one of his absoulute core powers (DS) at 30, and Warberg is absolute hell for a defender, due to the multitue of people who can attack you.
I've also heard that another dark pops in and is really rather good, but I've yet to bump into them with either DC or DF.
While I didn't use to think Dark Miasma was a particularly good PvP set, I'm changing my mind about it, as a couple of powers have proven themselves to be far better than I imagined.
Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto
The Leadership pool is more effective on a Defender than a Controller and as we all know Stalkers are a pain if you don't have Tactics. Defenders need to team to get anywhere in PvP.
I take my Scarlet around Siren's as often as I can.
Was there the last too nights, even managed to score a kill, although there was definately help.
FF is fun to have around, I like bouncing the villians all around the area.
Unfortunately, I can't say that you have much effect in PVP other than keeping your teammates up and buffed and annoyin stalkers to no end, unless their hunting you. 
I do wish that I packed more of a wallop for PVP, but Defending is a defender job, and offending is unfortnately something we definately lack in. 
[ QUOTE ]
While I didn't use to think Dark Miasma was a particularly good PvP set, I'm changing my mind about it, as a couple of powers have proven themselves to be far better than I imagined.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats why I've created a Dark/Dark, they appear to be the best 'soloish' Defender that would annoy most toons in a PvP zone. Other types of defenders would really only serve their purpose like in PvE play, Defenders are support toons, but to increase their Acc & Dam would be unfair to other ATs (however ironic that sounds) because of the buffs/debuffs that a Defender would have backing their powers up.
Needless to say, a good defender is difficult to kill, mainly due to the fact that they understand how weak they are, and how much of an target they becoming from another AT searching for that easy kill.
I dont come in PvP zones that often (despite TG spamming me loads of tells ordering me to get my [censored] in there), coz I'm lvl'in up other PvP toons, and got that itch thats called 'Hamildon' that I wanna scratch... 
hmmmmm the role of a defender in a pvp team is rather tricky and you need to be prepared for what is coming...if u get furstrated easily a defender is not what you should go into a pvp zone with...The buffs coming from defenders in pvp zones make a very big difference regarding the balance of a battle...considering that with leadership pools,fort buffs,RA's,clear minds,tar patch,radiation kinetics, a defender increases the potential of a team significantly he automatically sets himself as no 1 target. Therefore he is the one to die first. It should be expected from a defender to have the biggest number of deaths within his team however it should be expected as well whatever takes the defender down to die shortly after by the team supporting him.
I play my defender in PvP zones for two reasons. First because i duo with a pb and i keep the pb buffed at all times while she taking down enemies and is good fun to watch how my pvp build for empathy works in pvp zones. Second because is a really good practise for my reflexes against targets like stalkers.
[ QUOTE ]
I dont come in PvP zones that often (despite TG spamming me loads of tells ordering me to get my [censored] in there), coz I'm lvl'in up other PvP toons, and got that itch thats called 'Hamildon' that I wanna scratch...
[/ QUOTE ]
i am preparing an evil plan to drag u in there and involves a swedish aerobics team and beer...
[ QUOTE ]
Theres a Dark defender who comes in from time to time whos quite good, (for the life of me I cant remember his name atm) but he survives for a while and the debuffs and tar pit is quite annoying (at least while im on my brute and no impale to -fly him)
[/ QUOTE ]
It was Dismal, his Dark defender is a pain in the [censored]
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I play nova in Sirens someimes he gets ASed a lot, and with only 2 attacks i dont do well at all solo since i'm built for pure support for the PDs. I buff heal etc and they get the kills.
Although in recluse's victory he'll be a real ******* in PvP like he is in the arena ;o
My controlller rocks in sirens, but i can't kill anything without emp glove. But yeah they are better than defenders, for kinetics i must say its a bloody hard set to play support on in PvP thats why i like to practise with him and well for PvP seeing as i team with the SG and they know my playstyle they know where to go for heals, and how i play.- nova is nice in warburg, but just not sirens, hence why i bring MG a lot.
You need to be very fast in PvP to play a defender and even more so as a kinetic defender- possibly the fastest reflex's needed out of all the other defender primaries as as you know there is a lot to do buffing,healing draining whilst moving. I do that best in warburg.
[ QUOTE ]
It was Dismal, his Dark defender is a pain in the [censored]
[/ QUOTE ]
i aint no such thing, im an idiot
seriously..any defender that stays on the ground when surrounded is one.
At least i can say it takes several to defeat dismal on a good day
@Inkwave ..(darn merge)
[ QUOTE ]
i aint no such thing, im an idiot
seriously..any defender that stays on the ground when surrounded is one.
At least i can say it takes several to defeat dismal on a good day
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're the Dismal i was duoing with today, then yes its safe to say it takes several to defeat you/us...we had some great fights today.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i aint no such thing, im an idiot
seriously..any defender that stays on the ground when surrounded is one.
At least i can say it takes several to defeat dismal on a good day
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're the Dismal i was duoing with today, then yes its safe to say it takes several to defeat you/us...we had some great fights today.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep he sure did, made my brute quite useless and made me want to get my stalker (who would have munched him good) even though I hate doing that when villains already outnumber heroes, thats how annoying he was (PVP translation - annoying = good)
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Ok maybe i wasn't clear enough in what i was asking. At high level PvP lvl 50. Would it be worth playing a kinetic Defender compared to a kinetic controller or kinetic corrupter. I know their kin power is secondary and less potent. Does their Primary make up for the lack in secondary though? what do you think?
Noticeably you won't SEE a big difference really. Except maybe in the heals/end drain. Don't think the dmg buff would be much different of course this is just my speculations as I haven't actually got any numbers on it.
Oh and yeah sorry for forgetting to mention PN as a defender in sirens
EDIT : LoL ! Hey foresight as I've come to know you or should i say Dismal
[ QUOTE ]
considering that with leadership pools,fort buffs,RA's,clear minds,tar patch,radiation kinetics, a defender increases....
[/ QUOTE ]
O what? Now bubbles aren't good enough to get mentioned?
I take my defender into sirens all the time, never attack anyone but the villains hate me as i keep everyone alive and buffs allow them to see them pesky stalkers, basically when a good empath teams in pvp, the villains dont last long one villain even put on broadcast after me arriving for 5 mins: "they have an empath this is pointless"
[ QUOTE ]
one villain even put on broadcast after me arriving for 5 mins: "they have an empath this is pointless"
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes me want to build an empath just to annoy people
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
one villain even put on broadcast after me arriving for 5 mins: "they have an empath this is pointless"
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes me want to build an empath just to annoy people
[/ QUOTE ]
Less fun than you think as you become the danger and therefore the prime target
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
one villain even put on broadcast after me arriving for 5 mins: "they have an empath this is pointless"
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes me want to build an empath just to annoy people
[/ QUOTE ]
Less fun than you think as you become the danger and therefore the prime target
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm used to that with my other defender anyway. Had a lot of practice getting back to the team from the hospital as quickly as possible.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
PvP is playable as a defender although not in it's traditional team support role.
In PvP to keep alive it's imperative to move about a lot, being tied to a group would make you an easy target to stalkers (unless there's a hurricane you can stand in).
My usual tactic is to go looking for stalkers with tactics + goggles on, sometimes by following another sole hero (who doesn't know they have a gaurdian hero) and watch as the stalker circles, then give the villain a nice surprise by swooping down on them.
Once they are rad debuffed they are harmless, then it's a case of being lucky:
a) immobilising them to stop them running away
b) a hero coming along to finish the job,
c) no villain coming along making you have to scarper quick
d) or finding a villain that doesn't know what rad debuffs do and wonder why they can't hit anymore
Ah, stalker spooking, my 2nd fave sport (rooftop leaping coming in 1st). I especially love it when new stalker players sneek up thinking i cant see them, only to get zapped and debuffed :P
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
[ QUOTE ]
PvP is playable as a defender although not in it's traditional team support role.
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on the defenders build, i play empath in pvp and do nothing other than play team support, villains often go after me but i am rarely killed
I've hardly ever noticed any defenders in Sirens. In fact i can count the ones I've seen in there on one hand. TG, Tyl, G-Zeus & Dead Calm and even they are rarely there with those toons from what I've seen at least (This is on Defiant)
Now my question is, do you think there's really need for defenders in the PvP zones? Troller can pick defender powers as their secondary. How well does their secondary stack up compared to a defenders primary? Does their heal/end drains etc. do as well or significantly less I wonder (if slotted the same) I haven't actually compared the two but I'm sure some of ya have. You could even throw in a corrupters secondary against the Defender for good measure.
I'm just a bit at a loss if I should retire my defender. I do love to play him but lets be honest is there a whole lot of a difference from a kin def to a kin controller or corrupter? Plus a defenders dmg isn't anything to gloat about compared to a trollers primary or corrupters
Now this is not a whine or flame on defenders. I'm just wondering how well their primary is stacked against others secondary. Anyone care to fill me in?