Does anybody actually like Flurry the way it is?
By
Barata,
Posted on: 2009-07-21 15:15 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I take it when I'm feeling silly and want to run around using nothing but Sands, SM and Flurry.
It's a broken power. At the very least, it needs to have the claws equation thrown at it so that it's internally balanced.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I take it when I'm feeling silly and want to run around using nothing but Sands, SM and Flurry.
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Exactly. I myself wanted to create a speedster who would pummel his enemies into submission. Then I got Flurry, and I realized the pummeling was going to take longer than I thought....
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It's a broken power. At the very least, it needs to have the claws equation thrown at it so that it's internally balanced.
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Broken meaning "too good" or "too bad"? (In Magic: The Gathering speak, "broken" means "ridiculously good".)
In this case, ridiculously bad. It was also the first pool power I ever took in this game. Cuz it sounded cool and I wanted SS.
Be well, people of CoH.
I semi-like it on a superspeeder concept controller who isn't taking an APP for concept reasons. 100% crits from Containment plus lack of better options makes the power, hmm, tolerable. Barely.
Still, I hope one extreme corner case doesn't dull the point here. Flurry needs help.
I'd like it if the final damage tick lined up with the animation. As is, you're still still punching away after you've stopped doing damage, which doesn't feel right.
Well, 4 slotting it to get the stun bonus from a stupefy set kinda makes it...
*goes and shoots himself*
I'd say that it was balanced with the other two travel pool attacks if Air Superiority didn't have such a reliable knockdown.
If the other two only did damage and Flurry took extra time but had a chance of disorient, I'd say they were all good with respect to each other. As it is Flurry looks awful compared to AS and wouldn't even look that great even if the activation times were identical.
I have it on a couple of characters who took the Speed pool and needed an extra attack (mostly controllers). A couple even have both it and Hasten. I also have one Brute who has it, Shadow Maul and Sands of Mu.
I wouldn't mind if they took some frames out of the animation, but I don't think that would drastically change my feelings about the power.
Making it a 100% mag 2 stun wouldn't be a terribad idea, though I'd prefer seeing it as a cone for consistency with Sands of Mu and Shadow Maul.
It needs either high damage or to be an AOE. Otherwise its silly that a supposed super-speed attack sticks you in place longer than most powers you have at the time you can get it.
Although another possible solution is having the animation be a single punch if you miss. One of the major breaking points, to my mind at least, is that you're supposed to be so fast that you hit a guy 10 times faster, yet when you miss you're stuck there longer than most other attacks and being smacked around while you whiff away.
That doesn't make you feel like much of a speedster.
@Doctor Gemini
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I only like it ironically.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I almost always skipped it for Hasten.
If memory serves it use to be better.
I am straining to recall the change made.
I think the chance to stun was altered or some such.
I know Jump Kick was.
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QR
Does Flurry still have silly high damage in PvP?
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I have felt that it sucked for five years now and I see no reason to change my opinion. I mean, "it's a pool power attack, it's OK if it sucks" only goes so far when it takes twice as long as Air Superiority to do 1.2 times the damage.
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@Boltcutter in game.
With Vet Sands of Mu and the Invention system providing global accuracy bonuses, theres no need to take Flurry ever.
I had a group of speedster mutant characters at one point, and they all used Sands of Mu and it worked brilliantly, doing around three times the damage (much of it exotic) that a power I had to buy would do. One did had Flurry to begiun with - I eventually repsecced out of it after realising how it sat in my bar on the awkward ALT-9 slot without ever getting used.
I would love to trade the Sands of Mu look for Flurry's brighter zingier effects though.
Flurry's also up against Hasten for a pick, one of the best powers in the game. That really doesn't help it.
I don't mind it. I wish it animated a bit faster, but I like the looks of it. I have it on an MA scrapper who's supposed to be a speedster. There's only three powers in the game that actually look like superspeed: Superspeed, Whirlwind, and Flurry. MA is all kicks, so I like tossing in Flurry now and then just because it looks cool. It works well enough at the end of an attack string where you know one more hit will take someone out, or when you just want to mix things up a bit. Numerically, it's meh, but visually, it's one of the cooler looking attacks in the game. I do get a kick out of it when the disorient takes effect. The effect of that blur of fists, and the enemy staggering back with swirlies around his head, makes me smile.
Back in the day, Storm Kick used to look like Flurry, so it was visually fun to mix the two into a combat sequence, but then they changed Storm Kick to just a generic bland animation. What I'd love is if Flurry had the same look as it does now, but animated a little faster and had a slightly higher chance to disorient, and if they gave Storm Kick it's old appearance back, but likewise made it animate more quickly.
-edit-
If they do get convinced to change it, I hope they manage to keep its cool appearance. Flares from the Fire Blast set used to be disliked a lot because it had a long animation. They revamped it so that it animates much faster, but it still has that same look and feel as it did before, which is nice. I'd like to see that happen Flurry.... the animation time cut by about 30%, but the same look. I definitely do NOT want it to go the Storm Kick route that I mentioned. Storm Kick was a VERY cool looking power, and it's very boring now.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
I like the Flurry animation. It's usually the only reason I take Flurry -- for the flavor. That the animation takes so long is only a drawback in that the payoff (what the power actually does) is so low. Shadow Maul and Sands of Mu also take as long (and leave you flailing in place upon a total miss), but that's okay because they're high damage cone attacks that inflict -ACC. When you miss with SM or SoM, it sucks, but the possible damage/effects output makes it worth the risk -- the same's not true for Flurry.
So, in my estimation:
1) Flurry's animation is equivalent to Shadow Maul & Sands of Mu's animations -- no change needed.
2) Flurry gives a chance to disorient, while SM & SoM do -ACC -- makes Flurry a little underpowered, but it's a pool power, so that's okay by me.
3) Flurry's damage is moderate, while SM & SoM have high damage -- makes Flurry a little underpowered, but it's a pool power, so that's okay by me.
4) Flurry is a single-target attack, while SM & SoM are cone attacks -- THIS needs to be rectified. Make Flurry a cone attack, and it becomes a power worth taking (IMO) for what it can do, not just for the animation.
Flurry is useful for Controllers or MMs that can't really fill out a complete attack chain. Why you would use it in place of Sands of Mu, though, except for concept or to unlock Super Speed, I don't know.
I honestly think if it could hit multiple targets like Sands of Mu it might be treated a lot differently.
Also, if they ever get around to customizing Power Pool powers, if Flurry's animation could be given the old Storm Kick animation as an alternate, that would REALLY fit some concepts.
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Flurry is useful for Controllers or MMs that can't really fill out a complete attack chain. Why you would use it in place of Sands of Mu, though, except for concept or to unlock Super Speed, I don't know.
I honestly think if it could hit multiple targets like Sands of Mu it might be treated a lot differently.
Also, if they ever get around to customizing Power Pool powers, if Flurry's animation could be given the old Storm Kick animation as an alternate, that would REALLY fit some concepts.
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Oh yeah! The old Storm Kick animation would fit right there since it also was a very long anim.
Give it a 100% Mag 2 Stun to garantee it can disorient most minion and i could live with the non-aoe part of it.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
There seems to be two schools of thought developing about how to improve Flurry:
1) Make it a cone attack.
2) Improve the Stun portion of it.
But doesn't #1 automatically accomplish #2? After all, making Flurry a cone attack means that the Stun portion gets applied to every enemy who falls in the cone, right? So instead of having a whatever-% chance to disorient one enemy, you now have a whatever-% chance to disorient however many enemies you happen to get in position. (I usually average 2 or 3, but have eked out 4 or 5 on occasion.)
Also, even if you were to guarantee a single-enemy stun, you're still rooted through the long animation, so you will have very little time to take advantage of it. Remember, Flurry's major drawback is the long animation -- if you miss, you're stuck, and even if you hit, you're stuck. Making Flurry a cone attack improves the odds of at least hitting SOMEBODY during that long animation time, stun or no stun, and that makes the risk of a total whiff much more acceptable.
So, I'm not objecting to improving Flurry's stun capability UNLESS doing that would take making Flurry a cone attack off the board. If you have to do one or the other, I say make Flurry a cone attack. That's the only way you're going to make the risk comparable to the reward. THEN, if need be, improve the stun capability. (But I doubt this will be necessary.)
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There seems to be two schools of thought developing about how to improve Flurry:
1) Make it a cone attack.
2) Improve the Stun portion of it.
But doesn't #1 automatically accomplish #2? After all, making Flurry a cone attack means that the Stun portion gets applied to every enemy who falls in the cone, right? So instead of having a whatever-% chance to disorient one enemy, you now have a whatever-% chance to disorient however many enemies you happen to get in position. (I usually average 2 or 3, but have eked out 4 or 5 on occasion.)
Also, even if you were to guarantee a single-enemy stun, you're still rooted through the long animation, so you will have very little time to take advantage of it. Remember, Flurry's major drawback is the long animation -- if you miss, you're stuck, and even if you hit, you're stuck. Making Flurry a cone attack improves the odds of at least hitting SOMEBODY during that long animation time, stun or no stun, and that makes the risk of a total whiff much more acceptable.
So, I'm not objecting to improving Flurry's stun capability UNLESS doing that would take making Flurry a cone attack off the board. If you have to do one or the other, I say make Flurry a cone attack. That's the only way you're going to make the risk comparable to the reward. THEN, if need be, improve the stun capability. (But I doubt this will be necessary.)
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You bring very good points. You convinced me. I think Cone would be better with such a long animation.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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There seems to be two schools of thought developing about how to improve Flurry:
1) Make it a cone attack.
2) Improve the Stun portion of it.
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Actually, my recommendation would be to reduce the animation time by a third, but keep the graphics as close to the way it is as possible. I think being a little quicker would make it feel on-par with other powers. They did it to Flares, keeping the graphics about the same, but decreasing the animation, and it turned a very frowned-upon power into one that people highly recommend. There's no reason why Flurry couldn't benefit from the same treatment.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
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Actually, my recommendation would be to reduce the animation time by a third, but keep the graphics as close to the way it is as possible. I think being a little quicker would make it feel on-par with other powers. They did it to Flares, keeping the graphics about the same, but decreasing the animation, and it turned a very frowned-upon power into one that people highly recommend. There's no reason why Flurry couldn't benefit from the same treatment.
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I would agree were it not for the fact that Flurry's basic animation is shared by Shadow Maul and Sands of Mu, and I have yet to see anyone register a complaint about those powers on account of their animation. I'm guessing this is because they provide sufficient bang for your buck -- i.e., a high DMG cone attack with -ACC is worth the chance of whiffing while being rooted for 2-3 seconds. That leads me to think that it's not the animation that makes Flurry bad -- it's the fact that it does so little for such a long animation.
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Actually, my recommendation would be to reduce the animation time by a third, but keep the graphics as close to the way it is as possible. I think being a little quicker would make it feel on-par with other powers. They did it to Flares, keeping the graphics about the same, but decreasing the animation, and it turned a very frowned-upon power into one that people highly recommend. There's no reason why Flurry couldn't benefit from the same treatment.
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I would agree were it not for the fact that Flurry's basic animation is shared by Shadow Maul and Sands of Mu, and I have yet to see anyone register a complaint about those powers on account of their animation. I'm guessing this is because they provide sufficient bang for your buck -- i.e., a high DMG cone attack with -ACC is worth the chance of whiffing while being rooted for 2-3 seconds. That leads me to think that it's not the animation that makes Flurry bad -- it's the fact that it does so little for such a long animation.
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Exactly. It does less for the long animation, so making the animation shorter would bring it in line.
Upping the damage would bring it in line too, but I'm more partial to seeing the animation time decreased. I'm ambivalent about making it a cone. It's very tricky getting the cone to affect more than one target in Sands or Shadow Maul and requires that you have enemies practically on top of each other. Since the damage is fine for Shadow Maul, it's like having icing on the cake when you get it to affect more than one target. If you don't, it's no big deal. But if the only change you make to Flurry is to make it a cone, it'll only be on par with other attacks if you do get it to hit more than one person. Most of the time, it'll affect only one target and still be underpowered.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
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QR
Does Flurry still have silly high damage in PvP?
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Yes, but only the fite klubers use it. Flurry does about the same damage as knock out blow in pvp.
Never thought I'd see the day when flurry would need a nerf. It kinda tells you something about the new pvp system...
One of my pet peeves is that Flurry shares the same long animation as Sands of Mu and Dark Melee's Shadow Maul, but while Sands of Mu and Shadow Maul are high-DOT cone attacks, Flurry is a Moderate-damage single-target attack with a chance of minor disorient. All that animation time for a single-target attack that disorients only some of the time? Come on. Does anybody actually like Flurry like this? I mean, I've only ever picked it once, on a character-flavor basis, and I think it's ridiculous. Now, if it were expanded to be a cone power like the other two that share the animation -- even keeping the moderate damage and chance to disorient -- then I can see its usefulness. Am I wrong on this? Does anyone really think Flurry is just fine as it is? If so, how often do you take it, and/or why do you like it?