I don't like the fact that a single failed raid means high probability for every city zone on the server to be swamped by Rikti, preventing people from doing anything but fighting Rikti until server reset.
This version might be acceptable on raid weekends, but even then I think the warzones should be either on a timer, or have some way to cleanse the warzone which is essentially inevitable (for example: the warzone is cleared when X rikti are defeated by anyone; it may take a while, but eventually it'll happen)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Well, they wouldn't move to all adjacent zones, just one at a time. For instance, they would go to Steel, but not the Hollows and Perez and so on (or to one of them, but not the others).
Also, I would love to see this kind of thing happening more often, the zones are pretty boring as it is.
Maybe once a zone is captured (ie the heroes fail to repel the Rikti) the heroes could then try to retake it?
just going around mindlessly doing radio missions or grinding is just BORING. We need something more interactive.
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Well, they wouldn't move to all adjacent zones, just one at a time. For instance, they would go to Steel, but not the Hollows and Perez and so on (or to one of them, but not the others).
[/ QUOTE ]Yes, but if the players failed to succeed at the first raid, it's entirely likely that the reason is because there weren't enough people online and interested; if that's the case, then it's unlikely the second attack would be stopped, which would lead to a third, which also wouldn't be stopped, which would lead to a fourth, and so on.
The real issue with the suggestion is that should the heroes/villains fail, then the game world will most likely stay that way until the next server reset, which is no fun.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
What if the Raid would have two more ending conditions?
1) Time (though it makes little thematic sense for them to just up and leave for no reason)
2) Killing X Rikti (they leave because they have suffered a certain percentage of loss to their invasion force)
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Well, they wouldn't move to all adjacent zones, just one at a time. For instance, they would go to Steel, but not the Hollows and Perez and so on (or to one of them, but not the others).
Also, I would love to see this kind of thing happening more often, the zones are pretty boring as it is.
Maybe once a zone is captured (ie the heroes fail to repel the Rikti) the heroes could then try to retake it?
just going around mindlessly doing radio missions or grinding is just BORING. We need something more interactive.
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Your boring zones are my perfectly right zones, and I would hate to have a zone hunt holding up a story arc put on indefinite hold because there weren't enough people online to stop a Rikti invasion.
You're going about this from the stance of wanting to make Rikti Invasions more interesting. I'm going about it from the stance of wanting Rikti Invasions STOPPED because I prefer a static world. I'm simply not going to agree to any change that has a chance to deny me access to part of the game and stop arcs in progress dead due to conditions outside of my control.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It's an interesting idea, but I'm going to have to go /unsigned for the same reasons fleeting mentioned.
I'd be okay with changing the raids to be a little more interesting as long as they were still limited to 1 zone at a time and were time limited as they are now.
Like other posters here I don't agree with all of the details, but I certainly agree with the general idea. If the devs were to adopt such an idea they could tweak the details/numbers in such a way as to make it more balanced between those who like the idea and those who do not.
When the Rikti zone raids first came out the biggest complaint (ok, the second biggest, the biggest complaint was the lag) was that the players could not influence the outcome. While it was still on the test server literally hundreds of ideas were posted on the forums on how to improve the raids and make them more interactive.
And like 99% of the suggestions we make while an issue is on the test server they were ignored.
When the zombie zone raids came out the biggest complain was that they were quite obviously using nothing more than a rip off of the Rikti zone invasion code. Even down to the zombies not spawning if you were under cover, which sense for the Rikti invasions not so much for the zombie ones.
Reading your suggestion just makes me sad Ultimo. Because it's one of dozens of great ideas that I've read on how to improve the Rikti zone invasions, and I know that it will never ever happen.
It may not be a bad idea (and it isn't bad), but let's not jump to "great" straight away. Making Rikti Invasions more obnoxious and FORCING people to participate in them or lose their zones is not something I want to see. The biggest complaint about Rikti Invasions NOW is that people are sick and tired of them and would rather not lose access to their zones over an event like that.
Believe it or not, not everybody likes events.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This was part of why I posted. I wasn't sure what to do in the event that the Rikti accomplished their mission (apart from moving to another zone). Most likely you could replace the objectives that the Rikti had to attack with new ones that the heroes can attack. If the heroes take the three objectives back, the zone clears and returns to normal.
The big question is what to do if the Rikti cruise around and capture every zone? What then? Do we just leave the city in captured mode until the zones are recaptured, one by one?
I've heard this argument about people not liking the raids, but I'm sorry, I can't give it any credence. It's part of the game, and only impacts people minimally and only occasionally. You can still do your story arcs and run missions in the zones (though hunts would go on hold, that's true), you just need to be wary of the Rikti.
If we listen to this argument, nothing will ever get added to the game. Personally, I don't think that's a good plan. There's always someone who won't like something.
It seems to me that the reason people are sick of them is because they're pretty dull and meaningless and because they cause tons of lag. As I said, this idea would spread people out, thereby reducing the lag, and it would make the invasions more interesting.
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...It seems to me that the reason people are sick of them is because they're pretty dull and meaningless and because they cause tons of lag...
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For me, it's lag first, then the meaningless that causes my boredom with the invasions.
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...this idea would spread people out, thereby reducing the lag, and it would make the invasions more interesting.
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Any idea that would lessen the lag while increasing the interest and at the same time leave the invasion as an event that people could simply ignore, is a good idea in my book. 
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Well if the Rikti when then let the zone sit for a little while and have Freedom Phalanx members start porting in as reinforcements like what happens in RV, same thing happens in Villians. Lord Recluse gets mad at the villians for not defending the islands and comes himself or sends in the inner circle. The EPIC Heroes/villians come to help save the day if we can't. There problem solved for how to regain control if the Rikti win after *insert resonable time here*.
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This was part of why I posted. I wasn't sure what to do in the event that the Rikti accomplished their mission (apart from moving to another zone). Most likely you could replace the objectives that the Rikti had to attack with new ones that the heroes can attack. If the heroes take the three objectives back, the zone clears and returns to normal.
The big question is what to do if the Rikti cruise around and capture every zone? What then? Do we just leave the city in captured mode until the zones are recaptured, one by one?
I've heard this argument about people not liking the raids, but I'm sorry, I can't give it any credence. It's part of the game, and only impacts people minimally and only occasionally. You can still do your story arcs and run missions in the zones (though hunts would go on hold, that's true), you just need to be wary of the Rikti.
If we listen to this argument, nothing will ever get added to the game. Personally, I don't think that's a good plan. There's always someone who won't like something.
It seems to me that the reason people are sick of them is because they're pretty dull and meaningless and because they cause tons of lag. As I said, this idea would spread people out, thereby reducing the lag, and it would make the invasions more interesting.
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I most assuredly disagree.
There needs to be a condition that stops all raid activity dead in it's tracks.
If there would implement this then I would say the raid instantly stops when ONE o ANY of the three objectives is "defended" by the heroes.
Remember not every server has the population of freedom or virtue at all times.
What happens if a zone like skyway or bricks gets attacked on a smaller server, while most folks are heroside? Is that zone locked out forever until a server reset.
Not a good idea. If they do this it should be trivial to reload the zone to normal. Also the mobs for hunts should also not vanish, if they move into this route.
Personally I'm sick to death of the rikti. The zombie invasions I think we need more of.
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I like the idea personally. In fact I think it would make the instances more interesting than... quick kill bombs (which I still like) now quick everyone to Ms. Liberty for the LAAAAAAG!!!! Instead it'd would be more like Team A" We need heroes at the Hospital" Team B "Looking for heroes to help defend City Hall!" Team C "Looking for heroes to defend the Sewer Entrance!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY WON'T ANYONE HELP ME DEFEND THE SEWER!!!"
It would be more possible badges and accolades i.e. Defend the Hospital in each zone from a Rikti attack and you get MIGHTY DEFENDER Accolade it allows you to... Defend Mightily? But anyway sounds like fun to me.
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I've heard this argument about people not liking the raids, but I'm sorry, I can't give it any credence. It's part of the game, and only impacts people minimally and only occasionally. You can still do your story arcs and run missions in the zones (though hunts would go on hold, that's true), you just need to be wary of the Rikti.
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Oh, well that's okay then, I don't give your idea of changing the raids any credence. The raids are the way they are now, it's part of the game.
The raids during the invasion weekends are most certainly NOT occasional. If this were implemented, I would almost guarantee that during rikti invasion weekends, you would end up having every single server with every single zone locked out by rikti. remember that raids happen during non-peak hours and on servers with lower populations as well. And sometimes hunts are part of story arcs. You can't complete a story arc if it's got a hunt mission in it, and every zone is locked out by rikti.
Changing the raids to make them more interesting is not a bad idea at all. However any change needs to include 2 things.
1. Limited to 1 zone at a time.
2. Ends after a specific amount of time regardless of whether the heroes/villains succeed or fail the objectives. This even makes sense story-wise, since vanguard, the US military, and the NPC heroes/villains aren't just going to stand around forever while the rikti tear up part of the city
Perhaps I haven't been clear. If the heroes successfully defend a zone, the raid ends.
An example:
The raid starts, and three objectives appear in the zone, a military bunker, a triage hospital and a refugee camp. Rikti would attempt to reach these sites, both ground troops and ships. They would have both a limited amount of time to reach and destroy the three sites, and a limited number of troops to do it with (say, 15 minutes and 100 ground troops). Each objective they destroy could increase the time and number of troops available (say, add 5 minutes and 50 troops).
If they fail to destroy the three sites, the raid ends, and the zone returns to normal. If they succeed, the zone remains active using the beaming in style of raid we have now, three Rikti objectives (say, a transporter beacon, a barracks and a weapons dump), and another zone starts a new raid as above. If a raid is halted in any zone, all zones return to normal.
I'd also allow the zone to be returned to normal by allowing the heroes to attack the Rikti objectives in controlled zones.
The raids during the weekend are a special event. This isn't the usual frequency for this. Either way, what I'm suggesting seems to me to be FAR more engaging than what we have now.
My thinking is, if we're going to have it, wouldn't it be better if it was GOOD?
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I've heard this argument about people not liking the raids, but I'm sorry, I can't give it any credence. It's part of the game, and only impacts people minimally and only occasionally. You can still do your story arcs and run missions in the zones (though hunts would go on hold, that's true), you just need to be wary of the Rikti.
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It impacts hunts, which are part of more than a few story arcs, and it impacts my ability to speak with my contacts if Rikti are spawning around me. Not all contacts can be spoken with wile having cover overhead.
Beyond that, what you're suggesting isn't something that inconveniences me "only occasionally," but rather something that will inconvenience me ALL THE DAMN TIME when all zones are permanently taken over by the Rikti. You're assuming that players will band together to fight the common threat, but you're projecting heroic values onto Average Joe players, and I know that I, for one, would rather log out of the game and play something else than be bullied into a raid when I don't feel like raiding.
Think of a way to improve the event that DOESN'T suck for those who don't want to take part in it and I won't have anything to complain. But please don't hide behind "it's part of the game." Just because it's in the game doesn't make it a good thing. Either work around involving people who do not wish to be involved or don't touch the event.
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If we listen to this argument, nothing will ever get added to the game. Personally, I don't think that's a good plan. There's always someone who won't like something.
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No, if you listen to this argument, you'll end up making events that are both good for those who WANT to take part in them AND don't yank the rug from those who DO NOT WANT to be part of them. You don't get to pick who matters and who should be catered to. You cater to people who want it and give people who don't an out. Having all zones taken over by the Rikti and all regular spawns in them removed does not give such an out. For all I care, reward all people in the zone if a raid is fought off and simply don't if it isn't, but don't mess with the zone afterwards, please.
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It seems to me that the reason people are sick of them is because they're pretty dull and meaningless and because they cause tons of lag. As I said, this idea would spread people out, thereby reducing the lag, and it would make the invasions more interesting.
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Actually, the reason people are sick of them is that not everyone likes to be forced into a raid. You can make it as interesting as you want, you're still not going to get everyone interested in being yanked out of what they were doing and join a big team doing some overcomplicated even. If you want people to not complain, then don't give them REASON to complain. Don't make them participate into something they don't want to.
You don't see me clamouring that Rikti and Zombie raids should be permanently discontinued, do you? I don't want to take them away from the people who DO like them. Won't even mind if they happened all the time, rather than on select weekends. But by the same token, don't clamour about how I should deal with the raids or go away because my attitude is bad for the game, please. Add options, don't change the game for everybody.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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But you see, they ALREADY happen in the game. They're not going to take them out, so why not make them better?
[QR]
Not a bad idea. Needs a timeout. Maybe an AV or GM that spawns in a captured zone, kill the commander end the invasion.
Oh, and I also want to be able to fly up with a tanker and Air Sup. a rikti ship into atlas... Just sayin..
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But you see, they ALREADY happen in the game. They're not going to take them out, so why not make them better?
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Make them better. By all means make them better. Making them more annoying to those who don't want raid content is NOT better. Base it on the positive. If players win, reward them. If players lose, don't. But for heaven's sake, don't punish people of failing, and certainly don't punish people who didn't take part and wanted nothing to do with it.
When a Steel Canyon fire is not extinguished, it doesn't set the zone on fire, denying it for regular players. When Lusca isn't killed, Independence Port doesn't become a hazard zone. True, Troll Raves used to create STUPID amounts of chaos in Skyway City for days on end, but that was actually fixed so Supatrolls despawn when the event is over. Do it like that.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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But you see, they ALREADY happen in the game. They're not going to take them out, so why not make them better?
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What you aren't understanding is that we don't think your suggestion makes it better. I don't currently enjoy rikti raids, so I ignore them for the most part. Your suggestion would not make them any more fun for me, it would just make them easier to ignore. I will be strongly against any suggestion that has a high likelihood of forcing me to partake in ANYTHING in this game.
I think the problem of the suggestion is the possibility of a rikti raid that can last indefinitely long. Maybe a server has to wait till night time such that enough people logon. If not enough people are interested, the server might be perma owned by Rikti till the next server maintenance.
I think it would be cool if the raid can be made better. We're probably not ready to have server events that have a real consequence.
I like the idea of an NPC-lead counterattack if the Rikti hold a zone long enough - use the same amount of time the raids last at present and it doesn't impact non-participating players any more than it already does. Make the NPC heroes powerful enough to always overcome the Rikti defenders, and you've got no problem right? The raids will always end, just they might end earlier if people actually help out. And making far more sense in doing so as well, rather than the 'boom, it's over' sort of thing we have now where they just arbitrarily stop attacking.
Only real problem I can see (Assuming the exact same amount of time they are now isn't considered too disruptive by certain people) is the badges. The current 25 bombs/100 rikti/10 heavies badges for the accolade wouldn't work under this new system, or at least not very well. So remove them, and replace them with new badges. One for defending each of the three types of targets in the initial invasion (three total there), and a fourth for assaulting any of the three rikti targets in the counterattack. The Watchman accolade would require only the three for defending.
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I see what people are saying, but the reason people ignore Lusca and every other Giant Monster, the reason they don't bother with the fires, is because there IS no reason to do them. There's no consequence.
Giant Monsters should roam around making life hell for people. As it is they're little more than innocent bystanders. I actually feel bad attacking them.
For anything to be worthwhile, there has to be risk involved. The risk in my suggestion is that the raid might not go away immediately. If people want to get back to hunting or street sweeping (or talking to contacts... I admit I hadn't thought about that), then the solution is to help stop the raid.
Players are penalized for losing as it is. We get debt. We can be defeated. We can fail to defeat Lusca. Doing so means debt. We can fail to put out the fire, witht he same penalty.
Granted, the penalty in my suggestion is zone-wide, but as I say, this should inspire people to take part. In fact, I would expect the Rikti to go away after a while, the question I'm trying to answer is how to do that in a way that makes sense. The suggestion of the Freedom Phalanx moving in and cleaning it up is satisfactory, I suppose.
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For anything to be worthwhile, there has to be risk involved.
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No. Completely false. For anything to be worthwhile, the REWARD needs to be higher than the RISK.
What you are proposing is to do is vastly increase the risk, without increasing the reward. You'd be creating a scenario where players are given a stick, but no carrot.
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Granted, the penalty in my suggestion is zone-wide, but as I say, this should inspire people to take part.
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Actually, I'd bet that it would cause more people to complain than actually take part. You'd be forcing people to clean up the Rikti before they could do any hunt missions, or possibly even talk to a contact safely. If there's not enough people on at that time, or if they are on a support character that isn't on a team, they're likely to get massacred if they try to remedy this situation.
People play for a variety of reasons. The variety should be encouraged. Putting one option of play over another, and possibly forcing that playstyle on your players, is not a good idea.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I posted this elsewhere, and received positive feedback, so I am posting it here as an actual suggestion.
I enjoy the raids, as they create a sense of accomplishing something that the game lacks otherwise. I mean, I can stand on a corner and beat the living snot out of thousands of Hellions or Council, and it makes no impact on them whatsoever. Even so, I think the raids could and should be reviewed.
The gist is that the Rikti should have OBJECTIVES. That is, they're invading, so what are they trying to accomplish?
I'd do it like this.
First, when the raid is first announced, three targets would spawn in each zone. They might be different from zone to zone, but the idea is that the Rikti are going to attempt to destroy these targets. I'll use Atlas Park as an example.
The sirens sound, and a military bunker spawns at City Hall. A couple of minutes later, the ships start flying in, dropping bombs. At the same time, ground troops will start entering from the gates. Both the ships and troops start moving toward the objectives. It will now be up to the heroes to stop them from destroying the objectives.
Note that this would require making the ships MUCH more assailable. No stronger than Elite Bosses, it would need to be possible (though difficult) for a solo hero to destroy one. They should move around the speed of unslotted hover. Their beam weapons should be much less powerful but the bombs should do actual DAMAGE, and lots of it.
If the heroes stop the Rikti, the raid ends. If they fail, and the three objectives are destroyed, Atlas becomes flagged as a war zone, and Rikti troops will begin beaming in as they do now.
When this happens, the Rikti will move into one of the adjacent zones (eg. Steel Canyon) and a new battle with three objectives will begin THERE. This move from zone to zone will continue until the Rikti are stopped. Zones "captured" by the Rikti would remain in warzone mode until the Rikti are stopped.
Signature heroes in the zones should become active and participate in the fighting. For example, when Atlas Park is attacked, Ms. Liberty would help the fighting if Rikti troops come in range of her.
As an aside, consider that this would spread heroes and Rikti out as there would be at least three forces plus ships to fight, which would reduce the apalling lag we get now.
If the entire city is captured, I'm not sure what to do. It would be highly unlikely, but you never know. I'm open to suggestion here.
What do you think?