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I agree it is abysmal on Brutes, I've tried several times and couldn't stand it. Stalker side it's a different animal though. I would rank it between Dark and EM (mainly because of EM's animation nerfs)- mainly because of LR. The simple fact that LR doesn't break Hide allows me to LR into the middle of a group and pop off Thunderstrike (thereby getting 100% ST crit) or an AS before they get up. That is a HUGE benefit to single target damage for a Stalker. Ad in the quick animations and recharges on CB, HP and CI combined with the Stalker's increased Crit chance and it cranks out more ST than people think.
On Scrappers Spines is still king in AoE and I would still rank Fire slightly higher simply because of the extra DoT damage.
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Yeah, the TS crit is very nice for a Stalker. I still wouldn't rank it above EM because EM has attacks that simply can't be rivaled when taking hard targets. I admit I'm a bit biased towards EM, but (especially for Stalkers) EM is the king of burst, and sustained burst too, even after the changes to the powerset. That alone is reason enough to put it in the top imho (with dark melee). I mean, look at the damage EM's attacks put out 
And I'd still rank elec above Fire in AoE damage, because it has three great AoEs (TS, CI and LR) while Fire has FSC and the meh Fire Breath (which can be compared to Jacob's ladder), leaving only FSC as a ZOMGBBQ AoE. Plus in Mid's, even with the DoT, T-Strike shows more damage than FSC (I compared Brutes since they're the only ones with the sets).
And Imo elec should be better than fire anyways for AoE, Fire is a beast for ST damage.
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I guess the real question is if Lightning Rod will allow criticals? I've heard that Shield Charge doesn't allow criticals so for a contemplated Ela/Shield that will be something to really consider.
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No, this isnt 'the real question'. It doesn't crit on Stalkers, it doesn't crit EVER.
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Right, it is a pet summon
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The electric melee brutes and Stalkers get is pure, unmitigated garbage, one of the worst, most underperforming sets those ATs have, and I expect the same to hold true for scrappers.
We'd have been much better off getting either Axe or Mace in terms of performance. SS would be a dream come true.
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LOLwut???
No Energy Melee is pretty damn good in terms of DPS, just look at Bill's thread.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Yeah it's up there but it feels like a year passes by when activating Energy Transfer, lol.
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No Energy Melee is pretty damn good in terms of DPS, just look at Bill's thread.
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Good thing it's got DPS because it's a joke for AoE. 
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Spines had some very specific advantages in PvP: Range, Toxic damage, immobilization, slows. Electric Melee does not have these advantages.
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Have you PvP'd recently? Because the only -real- advantage it has is Range. With global resists, Toxic Damage does as much as any other type. Immobilizes will last for 2 seconds. And slows don't even exist in PvP anymore (practically). But yes, Spines does have rang which is a big deal. Other than that, though, Elec Melee will be noice in PvP. End Drains are still viable. Although you'll probably only get to drain another melée toon or maybe a Mastermind.
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Plus in Mid's, even with the DoT, T-Strike shows more damage than FSC (I compared Brutes since they're the only ones with the sets).
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I'm not sure if Mid's shows it, but only your targeted opponent receives the full damage from Thunderstrike. The AoE, which hits other enemies near your target, only does a portion of the damage.
Hope this helps.
The Bacon Compels You.
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Plus in Mid's, even with the DoT, T-Strike shows more damage than FSC (I compared Brutes since they're the only ones with the sets).
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I'm not sure if Mid's shows it, but only your targeted opponent receives the full damage from Thunderstrike. The AoE, which hits other enemies near your target, only does a portion of the damage.
Hope this helps.
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Any idea how much damage is actually dealt to the secondary targets? The City of Data entry seems to suggest that all targets within the area are damage fully, especially since the normal method for creating AoEs that deal more damage to the primary target than to secondary targets is to summon a pseudo-pet that delivers the second attack and Thunder Strike doesn't do that.
I've actually found that, for a number of the stranger powers in game, you can't actually trust the description of the power and simply have to trust the information presented by the in-game real numbers and City of Data (which actually lists summoned pseudo-pets).
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Plus in Mid's, even with the DoT, T-Strike shows more damage than FSC (I compared Brutes since they're the only ones with the sets).
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I'm not sure if Mid's shows it, but only your targeted opponent receives the full damage from Thunderstrike. The AoE, which hits other enemies near your target, only does a portion of the damage.
Hope this helps.
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Any idea how much damage is actually dealt to the secondary targets? The City of Data entry seems to suggest that all targets within the area are damage fully, especially since the normal method for creating AoEs that deal more damage to the primary target than to secondary targets is to summon a pseudo-pet that delivers the second attack and Thunder Strike doesn't do that.
I've actually found that, for a number of the stranger powers in game, you can't actually trust the description of the power and simply have to trust the information presented by the in-game real numbers and City of Data (which actually lists summoned pseudo-pets).
[/ QUOTE ] I just used it on two even level(42) Council soldiers. Here is what the combat log said:
Your Thunder Strike deals 32.47 points of energy Damage to Darkwolf.
Your Thunder Strike deals 263.97 points of smashing Damage to Equinox Parasite.
You knocked Equinox Parasite from their feet with your Thunder Strike attack!
Your Thunder Strike deals 43.3 points of energy Damage to Equinox Parasite.
Equinox Parasite was my target and Darkwolf was next to him. I realize this is really testing, just a single example. But I think this is what you are looking for.
edit: This was my blaster.
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Plus in Mid's, even with the DoT, T-Strike shows more damage than FSC (I compared Brutes since they're the only ones with the sets).
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I'm not sure if Mid's shows it, but only your targeted opponent receives the full damage from Thunderstrike. The AoE, which hits other enemies near your target, only does a portion of the damage.
Hope this helps.
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No, it does full damage to all targets. You're confusing it with Blaster and Dominator T-Strike. Brute and Stalker T-Strike is a 'true' AoE, and is weaker at ST damage than the Blaster version.
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Plus in Mid's, even with the DoT, T-Strike shows more damage than FSC (I compared Brutes since they're the only ones with the sets).
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I'm not sure if Mid's shows it, but only your targeted opponent receives the full damage from Thunderstrike. The AoE, which hits other enemies near your target, only does a portion of the damage.
Hope this helps.
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No, it does full damage to all targets. You're confusing it with Blaster and Dominator T-Strike. Brute and Stalker T-Strike is a 'true' AoE, and is weaker at ST damage than the Blaster version.
[/ QUOTE ] Oh wow, I had no idea. That is awesome news for my lowbie Stalker. My only thunderstrike experience so far is my blaster and dominator. I assumed it was the same for everybody. You know what they say when you assume...
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I just used it on two even level(42) Council soldiers. Here is what the combat log said:
Your Thunder Strike deals 32.47 points of energy Damage to Darkwolf.
Your Thunder Strike deals 263.97 points of smashing Damage to Equinox Parasite.
You knocked Equinox Parasite from their feet with your Thunder Strike attack!
Your Thunder Strike deals 43.3 points of energy Damage to Equinox Parasite.
Equinox Parasite was my target and Darkwolf was next to him. I realize this is really testing, just a single example. But I think this is what you are looking for.
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Considering that Darkwolves have 25% resistance v. Energy and Equinox Parasites have 0% resistance v. Energy, this suggests that the primary and secondary targets take the same amount of energy damage from the attack and the primary target is the only one that takes the smashing damage.
How was your attack slotted and how much +dam were you being affected by (if you can recall)? Those numbers don't really match up with what City of Data is saying it should deal (re: almost equal amounts of energy and smashing damage).
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I just used it on two even level(42) Council soldiers. Here is what the combat log said:
Your Thunder Strike deals 32.47 points of energy Damage to Darkwolf.
Your Thunder Strike deals 263.97 points of smashing Damage to Equinox Parasite.
You knocked Equinox Parasite from their feet with your Thunder Strike attack!
Your Thunder Strike deals 43.3 points of energy Damage to Equinox Parasite.
Equinox Parasite was my target and Darkwolf was next to him. I realize this is really testing, just a single example. But I think this is what you are looking for.
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Considering that Darkwolves have 25% resistance v. Energy and Equinox Parasites have 0% resistance v. Energy, this suggests that the primary and secondary targets take the same amount of energy damage from the attack and the primary target is the only one that takes the smashing damage.
How was your attack slotted and how much +dam were you being affected by (if you can recall)? Those numbers don't really match up with what City of Data is saying it should deal (re: almost equal amounts of energy and smashing damage).
[/ QUOTE ] Currently at level 42(My blaster's level) I have
96.6% Damage Base-156.34 Enhanced-307.29
I wasn't using anything like inspirations or Aim or Build Up. Just went for the attack as it's slotted.
It is slotted with:
37 Multi-Strike Dam/End
40 Multi-Strike Dam/End/Rech
37 Force Feedback Rech/End
35 Scirocco's Dervish Acc/Dam
33 Scirocco's Dervish Dam/Rech
32 Multi-Strike Dam/Rech
(not optimal slotting, but I had all six sitting around in my base)
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Plus in Mid's, even with the DoT, T-Strike shows more damage than FSC (I compared Brutes since they're the only ones with the sets).
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I'm not sure if Mid's shows it, but only your targeted opponent receives the full damage from Thunderstrike. The AoE, which hits other enemies near your target, only does a portion of the damage.
Hope this helps.
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No, it does full damage to all targets. You're confusing it with Blaster and Dominator T-Strike. Brute and Stalker T-Strike is a 'true' AoE, and is weaker at ST damage than the Blaster version.
[/ QUOTE ] Oh wow, I had no idea. That is awesome news for my lowbie Stalker. My only thunderstrike experience so far is my blaster and dominator. I assumed it was the same for everybody. You know what they say when you assume...
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While I think the brute/stalker TS does more AoE damage than the dominator/blaster version it still doesn't do full damage. I have a L15 elec/wp brute right now and the real numbers in game shows that TS does 18.5 smashing and 17.70 energy damage. I have no damage enhancments in it (accuracy, end reduction and recharge only) and started a quick AE mission to run a test - with little to no fury up I saw the following in the combat log:
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HIT Bloodthirsty Ghoul! Your Thunder Strike power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 19.84.
HIT Bloodthirsty Ghoul! Your Thunder Strike power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 86.73.
HIT Bloodthirsty Ghoul! Your Thunder Strike power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 52.55.
Your Thunder Strike deals 18.49 points of smashing Damage to Bloodthirsty Ghoul.
You disorient Bloodthirsty Ghoul with your Thunder Strike!
Your Thunder Strike drains some endurance from Bloodthirsty Ghoul!
Your Thunder Strike deals 17.75 points of energy Damage to Bloodthirsty Ghoul and drains some of their endurance.
You have knocked Bloodthirsty Ghoul off their feet with your Thunder Strike!
Your Thunder Strike drains some endurance from Bloodthirsty Ghoul!
Your Thunder Strike deals 17.75 points of energy Damage to Bloodthirsty Ghoul and drains some of their endurance.
You have knocked Bloodthirsty Ghoul off their feet with your Thunder Strike!
Your Thunder Strike drains some endurance from Bloodthirsty Ghoul!
Your Thunder Strike deals 17.75 points of energy Damage to Bloodthirsty Ghoul and drains some of their endurance.
You have knocked Bloodthirsty Ghoul off their feet with your Thunder Strike!
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So it looks like only the energy damage is AE - the smashing damage is only to the primary targets. The blaster/dominator attacks probably behave the same way the difference being that they do more smashing than energy - and a quick check of RedTomax shows that a L50 blaster thunderstrike does 142 smashing and only 23 energy, which explains why the AE is so small. The stalker version shows the same split as the brute - 55 smashing/53 energy.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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So it looks like only the energy damage is AE - the smashing damage is only to the primary targets. The blaster/dominator attacks probably behave the same way the difference being that they do more smashing than energy - and a quick check of RedTomax shows that a L50 blaster thunderstrike does 142 smashing and only 23 energy, which explains why the AE is so small. The stalker version shows the same split as the brute - 55 smashing/53 energy.
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Yeah, that looks like it meshes with the version that I saw. I was looking at the Elec Melee version mainly because it's the much more likely variant Scrappers are to receive than the Blaster version.
Another reason that electric melee is considered so good for stalkers is because the crit damage is all energy - which is frequently un-resisted or even something to which many targets are vulnerable. My Elec/Ninjitsu stalker eats spectral daemons for breakfast (lunch AND dinner) - that and all the AE in an archetype that rarely has any is what makes electric melee the premier PvE team set for stalkers (with spines being a close second - not that I have any experience - can't stand the current animations although that should change with i15 since I DO like the thorns animations).
I still think it will be a good set for scrappers, providing a nice, non-lethal AE option in place of spines or claws, but it won't win any firsts I suspect, just be a strong contender.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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Another reason that electric melee is considered so good for stalkers is because the crit damage is all energy - which is frequently un-resisted or even something to which many targets are vulnerable. My Elec/Ninjitsu stalker eats spectral daemons for breakfast (lunch AND dinner) - that and all the AE in an archetype that rarely has any is what makes electric melee the premier PvE team set for stalkers (with spines being a close second - not that I have any experience - can't stand the current animations although that should change with i15 since I DO like the thorns animations).
I still think it will be a good set for scrappers, providing a nice, non-lethal AE option in place of spines or claws, but it won't win any firsts I suspect, just be a strong contender.
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Please say it performs better than Martial Arts.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
I can't really say - i have only done MA on a scrapper and my electric/ninja stalker is only L30 at the moment and doesn't even have thunderstrike yet (slotting/attack chain issue - will respec in a level or two to fit it in the build). I am enjoying my stalker but that's because of the energy damage and the fact that chain induction is really cool to watch, plus the electric melee AS is one of the better animations.
MA should do better single target damage even on a scrapper but electric will certainly beat it on AE (not hard of course).
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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So it looks like only the energy damage is AE - the smashing damage is only to the primary targets. The blaster/dominator attacks probably behave the same way the difference being that they do more smashing than energy - and a quick check of RedTomax shows that a L50 blaster thunderstrike does 142 smashing and only 23 energy, which explains why the AE is so small. The stalker version shows the same split as the brute - 55 smashing/53 energy.
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Oh [censored].
My elec/stoner is 50 but I've been too busy tanking to pay attention to combat logs since I was on steamrolling 8-men teams (elec is not good for soloing). If only half the AoE is applied the power is suckier than FSC indeed. By the way, except for the first target which would receive full damage (81.7 unenhanced at 50), the rest would only get 40.04 nrg damage, making this power not much better than Whirling Hands (except it does KD to the mobs).
That makes elec melee even worse in AoE than I thought before. Maybe it's only worth it for Stalkers and crazy recharge builds which can L. Rod each 15 seconds.
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So it looks like only the energy damage is AE - the smashing damage is only to the primary targets. The blaster/dominator attacks probably behave the same way the difference being that they do more smashing than energy - and a quick check of RedTomax shows that a L50 blaster thunderstrike does 142 smashing and only 23 energy, which explains why the AE is so small. The stalker version shows the same split as the brute - 55 smashing/53 energy.
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Oh [censored].
My elec/stoner is 50 but I've been too busy tanking to pay attention to combat logs since I was on steamrolling 8-men teams (elec is not good for soloing). If only half the AoE is applied the power is suckier than FSC indeed. By the way, except for the first target which would receive full damage (81.7 unenhanced at 50), the rest would only get 40.04 nrg damage, making this power not much better than Whirling Hands (except it does KD to the mobs).
That makes elec melee even worse in AoE than I thought before. Maybe it's only worth it for Stalkers and crazy recharge builds which can L. Rod each 15 seconds.
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Yep it looks pathetic all around well maybe it gets fixed when they move it for everyone
I mean Dark melee got fixed so we can only hope
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
At 0% Fury, and a chain of HP -> TS -> HP -> CI -> Repeat (which I think would be the best Single Target attack string)...at 99% DMG enhancement to the attacks...that should be 122 DPS.
I would think, with the scrappers dmg mods, it would equal a bit more...thinking 150 range - 160 range. That seems pretty close to Martial Arts...which I think tops out at around 170ish.
My math could of course be totally wrong (I wouldn't doubt it)...but that's what I'm getting so far.
But if I'm not wrong, that gives ELM better AOE dmg with roughly the same DPS as MA, and added Energy Dmg (which hurts when going up against Rikti though :/ )
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Wow is MA that bad at ST dmg to compare it to Elec Melee? I mean, on a Brute, at 70%ish fury, I was draining bosses before I killed them beause it took so long (and I was not electric armor so the drain was exclusively from my punches).
It would be nice if electric melee got a tweak, yes.
For the mean time, my 50 elec/elec brute just camps out in the RWZ. lol Rikti trying to kill an electric brute (well, everyone is good at at least one thing).
The Bacon Compels You.
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I guess the real question is if Lightning Rod will allow criticals? I've heard that Shield Charge doesn't allow criticals so for a contemplated Ela/Shield that will be something to really consider.
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No, this isnt 'the real question'. It doesn't crit on Stalkers, it doesn't crit EVER.