I am loving all that is happening on the market.
Why? Because real market shouldnt be so predictable!
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
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By the way, just had to add this. My story-arc had to be changed tonight after the patch because the Generators were pulled out of the AE pool. I don't know exactly what prompted the Devs to remove the Generators, perhaps it's the idea that one could create a mission where a tank would herd NPC's around a Generator, then the team would debuff them, lock'em down and simply destroy the Generator thus creating an AoE that would add to the ease of defeating the NPC's... maybe that's it, maybe not. Point is... yet again my creative effort is affected by an exploit, real or imagined, and the Devs' reaction to it.
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Did you even read the patch notes? The reasons are stated right there in blue and white.
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RMT and the decreased drop rates of purples is what is damaging the market. If anything, AE is increasing the supply of a lot of the rarer salvage.
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The market, overall, is pretty wonky right now. It's not just MA that's responsible for that, but it's clearly a big contributor.
Rare salvage seems to have evened out across the board. That's good in some cases, bad in others. Hey, I can get a Platinum for 500k. That's great. But now I have to pay that same amount for Black Blood of the Earth. Not so great. On the other hand, that's good news for lowbies playing regular content, selling their drops. Long and short of it: mixed bag.
Many uncommon and common salvage pieces have gone kooky. Particularly on blueside. This is mostly bad news. Especially for the impatient.
However, for the patient, there's a lot more Inf to be made on common IOs these days than there used to be.
Set recipes are drying up. Immediately after MA's release, there was a tremendous glut, and prices crashed. Now supply is dribbling in at a seemingly slower rate than it did before MA (which is pushing prices up). Still trying to figure this one out. I think a lot of factors are involved.
People are playing regular content enough to bring in a slow but steady supply of costume piece and temp power recipes.
...but they're still not playing that content at 50, because the purple shortage continues to worsen (Merits started that problem).
All told, based on everything I've been seeing, the market today is a very different animal than it was pre-MA, and the trend right now is that it's getting much more expensive to outfit a character. Especially a level 50. And especially if you want the high-end stuff.
That upward trend is probably going to continue into and beyond 2XXP weekend.
Ultimately, I don't think we're going to have a clear idea of how MA itself is impacting the market for the long-term until well into August.
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Its decently simple why set IOs dried up.
They capped tickets to 1500 a mission.
And most of the smart marketers realized that with such a cap, salvage was way more profit-friendly.
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Did you even read the patch notes?
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Nah. It's simply easier to go blame someone else.
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If something is broken, I'll report it. Then farm the heck out of it till they fix it. <snip>
I do that in live, and I see no reason why I shouldn't do it in test if I ever get invited to one.
[/ QUOTE ]You do realize that "farm the heck out of it till they fix it" violates the EULA, yes? The one you agree to by simply playing the game?
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Did you even read the patch notes?
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Nah. It's simply easier to go blame someone else.
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Here's the quote from the patch notes:
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Removed powers from Destructible Object mission objectives that harmed or affected players in some way. These objects should simply explode upon reaching 0 health and have no secondary effects like buffing or debuffing players or causing damage to either [u]enemies[u] or players.
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Read the emphasized portions time and again, and see that I was absolutely right in my assumption. Those Destructible Objects were pulled because they were affecting both players and enemies with buffs and debuffs, as well as causing extra damage! All of which could be abused.
That's exactly what I already *said* in my post! 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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The power gamers aren't going to waste their time figuring out all the exploits in Beta just so the exploit gets fixed before it gets to live. That's like playing chess and continually telling your opponent the next five moves you are going to make.
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Wow.... you've just given the best possible accusation against those power-gamers by essentially calling them harmful parasites that are feeding off the exploits and actually having a vested interest in broken game-systems being published to live-servers... you're so cool! 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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The power gamers aren't going to waste their time figuring out all the exploits in Beta just so the exploit gets fixed before it gets to live. That's like playing chess and continually telling your opponent the next five moves you are going to make.
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Wow.... you've just given the best possible accusation against those power-gamers by essentially calling them harmful parasites that are feeding off the exploits and actually having a vested interest in broken game-systems being published to live-servers... you're so cool!
[/ QUOTE ]He was perhaps a bit general, but his point is valid. There is a subset of people playing this game who are actively looking for ways to get around the limits imposed by the Devs, and don't consider themselves bound by the rules of the game. If they did get into a Beta, they wouldn't report any exploits they found to the Devs. They'd just make notes, and see how many make it to Live.
So, as this threads' title suggests... there are definitely harmful farmers. 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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Its decently simple why set IOs dried up.
They capped tickets to 1500 a mission.
And most of the smart marketers realized that with such a cap, salvage was way more profit-friendly.
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Hmmm. That doesn't line up for me for two reasons...
1. The glut continued for a while after that cap was put into place. The supply flow didn't really start to sputter out until after the 4th of July weekend. Bids also shot up around then. I currently attribute that to a sudden influx of high level characters combined with marketeers starting in on their 2XXP preparations.
2. Even with the prices rising, buying salvage with tickets still isn't more profit friendly. Besides, if a lot of people were doing that, there'd be more supply, not less.
The profit in salvage is in flipping/manipulating, hence the absurd number of standing bids on once largely unwanted items. Compared to other things that can be done, it's not a particularly lucrative or efficient approach. But, right now, it's pretty easy--set it and forget it--and that makes it attractive.
Right now I'd say the smart marketers are farming regular content. Preferably with a 47-50.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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So, as this threads' title suggests... there are definitely harmful farmers.
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No because it turns the term "farm" into an over-broad pejorative.
The people you're talking about are abusing exploits.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I'm against farming and PL'ing in the MA/AE.
As it has been stated repeatedly, the DEVs are against it as well - and clearly stated that MA/AE was not to be used as a farming or power leveling tool - and - that players that did so would be punished for doing so.
Those that continue to abuse the system are the problem.
They take it upon themselves as a right to abuse the system. It is a right that they do not have.
They have harmed the game in many ways. The abuse of the MA/AE is the tip of the iceberg of problems that their abuse cause throughout the game.
<ul type="square">[*]As you have noted they are causing extra server down time. This is directly related to the DEVs working to disable farming and PL'ing in the MA/AE.[*]They are also ruining the new player experience; something that they could remedy simply by moving their farms to the higher level zones. They refuse to do this. It is not their right to ruin new player experience.[*] They are having a horrible effect on the Markets. Inflation is out of hand. This is due to multiple things.[*] They are drawing a different type of character to the game. Ones that apparently don't care what genre the game is as long as they can abuse it. These individuals are of a low moral persuasion if they are only here to abuse the game. Do you think that these players have any moral obligation not to purchase inf from the RMT'rs?[*] They have created a horde of inexperienced players that do not know the game, think they know the game, and think they know how to play their characters. I have heard tell about level 50's that don't know where a trainer is.[*] There are players playing epic archetypes as their second character and maybe even on their second day.[*] ..etc.[/list]
None of these things are good things.
The thing that you pointed out is just the most direct effect that is so completely obvious that it can't be missed at the server log in screen.
I think that...
"not being able to log in because fixes are being installed to stop farming and power-leveling"
.... is the smallest of my worries regarding the rampant farming and power-leveling in the MA/Ae.
In fact, that helps ease my worries a bit.
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You remind me of a local woman you might have heard about years ago on the news...her name is Cindy Sheehan.
She's the lady who camped outside of Bush's Texas ranch in hopes her "Anti-War" movement would make a difference. In the end, all she managed to do was get arrested a few times.
You can hate farmers all you want. You can hate what WE'VE done to the game all you want, and you can scream from the top of a mountain about how much its ruined the game.
In the end, myself and others will farm anything and everything we can to get the rewards we're after. And there's nothing you or the Devs can do about it.
That is...unless they put timers on every single mission in the game...which we know they wont do.
EOM.
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So, as this threads' title suggests... there are definitely harmful farmers.
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No because it turns the term "farm" into an over-broad pejorative.
*
The people you're talking about are abusing exploits.
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OK... how'bout we all agree that exploit farming is harmful then?
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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In the end, myself and others will farm anything and everything we can to get the rewards we're after. And there's nothing you or the Devs can do about it.
*
That is...unless they put timers on every single mission in the game...which we know they wont do.
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They don't have to resort to putting timers on missions, they can simply put counters on individual rewards from individual tasks within a mission. For example, the first time within a 24 hours period that you click a glowie in a mission, you get a set amount of XP/INF, every glowie of the same type within those 24 hours, will give you less and less using a DR concept. The same can be applied to NPC's within a mission. It will be transparent and the only way you'll track it is if you actually paid attention to your rewards like most farmers probably would.
The rest of us would simply continue to play the game as is... and for what it is, an entertaining journey of you and your character from Lv1 to Lv50 and beyond to becoming the best Lv50 you can imagine you need to be.
This was already done with Mertis IIRC, and I have no doubt that the Devs would gladly do this if they would feel it's the only way to "save CoX".
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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The inflation is not AE's fault. It's the fault of greedy sellers and stupid buyers (not always both at the same time though).
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No. Inflation isn't caused by the mentality of buyers and sellers. It's caused by having the amount currency growing at a faster rate than the goods being purchased by that currency. More money chasing after the same or fewer goods = higher prices.
Thus inflation of certain goods like salvage and purple recipes is indeed due to AE. Purples because they're not generated in AE (except in Devs' Choice arcs) and salvage because most people are reluctant to cash in their tickets for it. So supply of those items has decreased, while the rate of currency coming into the game has increased--after all, if you can get to 50 in 2 days, that means you're generating the same amount of inf that used to take months.
Of course, the AE isn't only responsible for inflation. It also has resulted in huge price dropsfor many recipes. This is especially noticeable for villains; before AE many sought-after recipes simply weren't available at any price.
And here's an easy prediction: when Going Rogue eventually goes live, you'll see a crash of salvage prices because at least for a while supply will shoot up again due to people playing through non-AE content. None of this is due to buyers/sellers getting smarter or dumber. It's all supply and demand in action.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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You can hate farmers all you want. You can hate what WE'VE done to the game all you want, and you can scream from the top of a mountain about how much its ruined the game.
In the end, myself and others will farm anything and everything we can to get the rewards we're after. And there's nothing you or the Devs can do about it.
That is...unless they put timers on every single mission in the game...which we know they wont do.
EOM.
[/ QUOTE ]As long as you aren't taking advantage of an exploit, go for it. We've seen nothing to indicate the Devs want to limit farming in regular content any more than they already have. Just in AE.
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So, as this threads' title suggests... there are definitely harmful farmers.
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No because it turns the term "farm" into an over-broad pejorative.
*
The people you're talking about are abusing exploits.
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OK... how'bout we all agree that exploit farming is harmful then?
[/ QUOTE ]Exploit anything is harmful. I agree with avoiding making "farmer" any more of a pejorative that it already is, so just call the ones using exploits what they are: "Exploiters".
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I'm against farming and PL'ing in the MA/AE.
As it has been stated repeatedly, the DEVs are against it as well - and clearly stated that MA/AE was not to be used as a farming or power leveling tool - and - that players that did so would be punished for doing so.
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Care to rethink your position in light of this:
Players can now fine-tune their difficulty levels by telling the game exactly how they want to be treated. They can choose to be regarded as a specific size team (even if they are soloing), and even have control over the level they are detected to be when it comes to the dynamic spawn system. So if you ever wanted to see if your Scrapper could take on a map that is populated for an 8 person team, four levels higher than your own, now you can!
The devs seem to have given the farming population exactly what they want: More farming!
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You can hate farmers all you want. You can hate what WE'VE done to the game all you want, and you can scream from the top of a mountain about how much its ruined the game.
In the end, myself and others will farm anything and everything we can to get the rewards we're after. And there's nothing you or the Devs can do about it.
That is...unless they put timers on every single mission in the game...which we know they wont do.
EOM.
[/ QUOTE ]As long as you aren't taking advantage of an exploit, go for it. We've seen nothing to indicate the Devs want to limit farming in regular content any more than they already have. Just in AE.
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Doesnt seem like to me they're very much interested in limiting the farming in AE either.
2 patches in a week really hasnt done much, eh?
I think they might have axed the mito farms (which is fine by me, I thought they were kinda lame to begin with), but other than that, what have they done to limit it at all?
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Thus inflation of certain goods like salvage and purple recipes is indeed due to AE. Purples because they're not generated in AE (except in Devs' Choice arcs) and salvage because most people are reluctant to cash in their tickets for it.
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MA isn't the sole cause of the inflation on purples. It's certainly contributing, but that rise started with merits (in combination with Oro). Level 50 content was being neglected well before MA hit the scene.
Also, the incoming supply on salvage seems fairly decent. It's not pre-MA levels, but it's close. The problem I'm seeing is that there are a lot more flippers/manipulators working it than there were before MA (likely tempted into the practice by the extreme shortages that came about in the aftermath of MA's release).
Going Rogue will probably purge salvage of thousands of dummy bids, much as MA purged them from recipes.
Regardless, I still say it's way too early to saddle MA with long-term negative impact on the market.
But I'll make a prediction right now: MA will get blamed around here for the 2XXP price spikes... even though that's happened during and immediately after every previous 2XXP weekend. 
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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So, as this threads' title suggests... there are definitely harmful farmers.
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No because it turns the term "farm" into an over-broad pejorative.
*
The people you're talking about are abusing exploits.
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OK... how'bout we all agree that exploit farming is harmful then?
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I dunno that EVERYONE would agree. But, personally? HELL YEAH!
About the only redeeming feature it has right now is pointing out what needs to be nerfed until someone can put it back later in a non-exploitable form.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Paraphrased: DR-on rewards for clicking of the same type of glowie for X hours.
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Unfortunately this sorta ALSO can penalize someone who is using the MA legitimately. So I'd vote "no" on it.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I'm against farming and PL'ing in the MA/AE.
As it has been stated repeatedly, the DEVs are against it as well - and clearly stated that MA/AE was not to be used as a farming or power leveling tool - and - that players that did so would be punished for doing so.
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Care to rethink your position in light of this:
Players can now fine-tune their difficulty levels by telling the game exactly how they want to be treated. They can choose to be regarded as a specific size team (even if they are soloing), and even have control over the level they are detected to be when it comes to the dynamic spawn system. So if you ever wanted to see if your Scrapper could take on a map that is populated for an 8 person team, four levels higher than your own, now you can!
The devs seem to have given the farming population exactly what they want: More farming!
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This is actually pretty sick....
Now this could be the one thing that gets farmers out of the AE. Since I've held my onto my demon farm all this time, I'll now be able to go back into PI and farm that mission as if there were 7 others on the team?
So sick....
From one farmer to the Devs....I thank you. 
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More money chasing after the same or fewer goods = higher prices.
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This still ignores the human component. People willing to actually throw more money at those same or fewer goods. The goods don't suck the inf off your pile by themselves.
If it helps, look at what I said as merely misanthropic commentary.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I don't think anyone would argue with an unexepected server downtime for something URGENT.
Fixing farms which have been broken since the last issue isn't urgent. Yes if they brought it down the day after it went live then yes, but not this amount of time after and I don't give a fig what their user agreement says. It's very poor form, appalling customer relations. If I did that I would expect a major flare up from my clients. And I would deserve every angry word.
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They can't fix it until they know about it. According to posts from people who were actually in the beta, one version of the Rikti farms was identified just before it went live, and fixed after. Then the exploiters switched to the RCO versions that we all came to know and love as the MEOW farm, that was NOT identified in beta.
And they just fixed another exploit that wasn't identified in beta.
How do you propose they should have fixed it before they even knew about it?
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But... but... its so clear! Omniscience!!! They know it all! They actually have it all fixed, but they are releasing the fixes slowly as a kind of test of our pure motivations!
For they must find the Quality People that arent Polluting the game!
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.