[ QUOTE ]
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They should just make a button for these people that lets them immediately start at L50. No more need for farming...
Of course, no more need to play either...
People don't seem to realize that the reason for playing isn't to BE L50, but to enjoy the trip TO L50.
[/ QUOTE ]
if the game ends at 50 - is that the players fault ? 5 years and they cannot come up with end game content? You could try pvp - that keeps some of us in the game - oh wait they screwed that up....
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you think the game ends at 50? There's a ton of content in the game, all of it is available to level 50's.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
I suppose the game would end at 50 if you chose not to:
[*] Collect badges
[*] Run MArcs just for the sake of doing it
[*] Ouro back for missed arcs
[*] Ex/Mal down for task forces
[*] Just, I don't know, do the above for the sake of playing with friends.
[*] Participate in raids (once again, not for the sole fact of getting moar merits/inf)
Seriously, enjoy the game. Don't make a chore out of it. That said, isn't the MA in Atlas/Cap already a button that lets people skip right to L50? 
QR
Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
[ QUOTE ]
There is a villain accolade which you can only get by completing timed missions in sequence - one starts when you finish the last. You cannot go back and re-do it via Oro, you have to get it done right the first time. I would scream seven bells of murder if I was a badger that lost that chance because of inept communication skills of the staff of this company.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a badge, not an accolade, and you can fail one of the timed missions and still get it.
[ QUOTE ]
So, the Devs were not aware that the added feature where one could select the min/max level of a mission, coupled with the fact that the Mitos were left in the AE pool only have their attacks at higher levels, would cause a booming exploit...?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hindsight is 20/20.
Why didn't YOU find this exploit in open beta? That's what beta is for, but no, you didn't live up to expectations. You let it slip through.
They probably didn't realize that the Mitos were left in. They don't spend every waking hour staring at this and looking for exploits. They have other things that also need doing.
[ QUOTE ]
I for one would have preferred a system where less exploiting would have been possible because the rewards would have been lessened initially and gradually brought up, rather than forcing confusion upon my playerbase because the NPC's they rely on in their mission are here today and gone tomorrow.
[/ QUOTE ]
The devs wanted ordinary players to have a reason to visit the MA. Ordinary players will not visit the MA if it offers reduced rewards, except maybe to check it out and see what it's all about. Once they get that it offers reduced rewards, they won't mess with it.
For that matter, neither will the farmers, unless they can find something so egregiously broken that it's worth their time despite reduced rewards. How do you think so many of the exploitive things have been found after I14 went live? They were found and popularized because of their high reward. If the reward was low, no one would be exploring those avenues, the devs wouldn't be finding problems because their datamining samples would be low and be missing outliers, and meanwhile this beast of a feature they've now spent something like 3 issues hammering out would be a ghost town.
There are a lot of problems in all this, but as far as the reward system and the technical change management of the things they consider exploits? I think they're doing it the only way that makes sense. (Notice I said the technical management. I think their social management of it is crap.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
So, the Devs were not aware that the added feature where one could select the min/max level of a mission, coupled with the fact that the Mitos were left in the AE pool only have their attacks at higher levels, would cause a booming exploit...?
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite possibly. Again, there a TONS of variables in the MA system. Overlooking something even as crazy as this is possible.
And remember, they're not always looking at the game. They're also looking at all the under-the-hood code too. So, sometimes, it's not always IMMEDIATELY apparent what certain decisions will trickle down into.
And yeah, sometimes it's possible for a dev to have their head firmly planted someplace dark and poopy-smelling about things that almost screaming "OBVIOUS".
Then again, if it was quite that obvious, why wasn't this reported way back during beta? Or shortly after release of i14?
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Maybe its just me, but I'm curious how it was "obvious" to anyone but maybe the devs that Mitos would not have attacks when extrapolated to other levels. After all, no critter ever had that option before I15, so it's not as if that outcome was in any way form or manner obvious.
And of all the critters to test, why would anyone think to test Mitos? As long as their powers actually work, they're a huge pain to interact with.
(Note, this wasn't a rebuttal against Hyperstrike. He's just who made me think to post this.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
What's funny is that it probably took deleting what amounted to ONE line (or paragraph) of code to remove the Hami's from the AE build screen. Have you ever highlighted a paragraph of text, hit delete and then save? Probably what happened here.
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe its just me, but I'm curious how it was "obvious" to anyone but maybe the devs that Mitos would not have attacks when extrapolated to other levels. After all, no critter ever had that option before I15, so it's not as if that outcome was in any way form or manner obvious.
And of all the critters to test, why would anyone think to test Mitos? As long as their powers actually work, they're a huge pain to interact with.
(Note, this wasn't a rebuttal against Hyperstrike. He's just who made me think to post this.)
[/ QUOTE ]
well, actually. thats a good question. why the hell were mitos, a mob that never spawns below 50, ALLOWED to spawn below 50 anyhow, when no OTHER mob gets that special treatment that i know of? I cant force spawn lvl 1 carnies.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
I'm against farming and PL'ing in the MA/AE.
As it has been stated repeatedly, the DEVs are against it as well - and clearly stated that MA/AE was not to be used as a farming or power leveling tool - and - that players that did so would be punished for doing so.
Those that continue to abuse the system are the problem.
They take it upon themselves as a right to abuse the system. It is a right that they do not have.
They have harmed the game in many ways. The abuse of the MA/AE is the tip of the iceberg of problems that their abuse cause throughout the game.
<ul type="square">[*]As you have noted they are causing extra server down time. This is directly related to the DEVs working to disable farming and PL'ing in the MA/AE.[*]They are also ruining the new player experience; something that they could remedy simply by moving their farms to the higher level zones. They refuse to do this. It is not their right to ruin new player experience.[*] They are having a horrible effect on the Markets. Inflation is out of hand. This is due to multiple things.[*] They are drawing a different type of character to the game. Ones that apparently don't care what genre the game is as long as they can abuse it. These individuals are of a low moral persuasion if they are only here to abuse the game. Do you think that these players have any moral obligation not to purchase inf from the RMT'rs?[*] They have created a horde of inexperienced players that do not know the game, think they know the game, and think they know how to play their characters. I have heard tell about level 50's that don't know where a trainer is.[*] There are players playing epic archetypes as their second character and maybe even on their second day.[*] ..etc.[/list]
None of these things are good things.
The thing that you pointed out is just the most direct effect that is so completely obvious that it can't be missed at the server log in screen.
I think that...
"not being able to log in because fixes are being installed to stop farming and power-leveling"
.... is the smallest of my worries regarding the rampant farming and power-leveling in the MA/Ae.
In fact, that helps ease my worries a bit.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm against farming and PL'ing in the MA/AE.
As it has been stated repeatedly, the DEVs are against it as well - and clearly stated that MA/AE was not to be used as a farming or power leveling tool - and - that players that did so would be punished for doing so.
Those that continue to abuse the system are the problem.
They take it upon themselves as a right to abuse the system. It is a right that they do not have.
They have harmed the game in many ways. The abuse of the MA/AE is the tip of the iceberg of problems that their abuse cause throughout the game.
<ul type="square">[*]As you have noted they are causing extra server down time. This is directly related to the DEVs working to disable farming and PL'ing in the MA/AE.[*]They are also ruining the new player experience; something that they could remedy simply by moving their farms to the higher level zones. They refuse to do this. It is not their right to ruin new player experience.[*] They are having a horrible effect on the Markets. Inflation is out of hand. This is due to multiple things.[*] They are drawing a different type of character to the game. Ones that apparently don't care what genre the game is as long as they can abuse it. These individuals are of a low moral persuasion if they are only here to abuse the game. Do you think that these players have any moral obligation not to purchase inf from the RMT'rs?[*] They have created a horde of inexperienced players that do not know the game, think they know the game, and think they know how to play their characters. I have heard tell about level 50's that don't know where a trainer is.[*] There are players playing epic archetypes as their second character and maybe even on their second day.[*] ..etc.[/list]
None of these things are good things.
The thing that you pointed out is just the most direct effect that is so completely obvious that it can't be missed at the server log in screen.
I think that...
"not being able to log in because fixes are being installed to stop farming and power-leveling"
.... is the smallest of my worries regarding the rampant farming and power-leveling in the MA/Ae.
In fact, that helps ease my worries a bit.
[/ QUOTE ]
How exactly is the market ruined, and its not like the previous Atlas/mercy experience was any good. Unless you found endless screaming and lolz jokes and chuck norris references immersion creating.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
Hindsight is 20/20.
Why didn't YOU find this exploit in open beta? That's what beta is for, but no, you didn't live up to expectations. You let it slip through.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry to burst your bubble about this particular problem (Mitos) because when I actually was in Open Beta, you couldn't even set the min/max levels for a mission.
[ QUOTE ]
They probably didn't realize that the Mitos were left in. They don't spend every waking hour staring at this and looking for exploits. They have other things that also need doing.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, they don't even need to. All they need to do is run a SQL query to "discover" which critters are left in the AE pool that could be vulnerable to a min/max-level-range exploit.... And if you're going to try and tell me the Devs don't have everything server-side organized in SQL tables... I'm just going to... do what my father used to do!
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Again, how many enemies in the system? And would there have been legitimate uses for the green mitos?
And, again, if it was so obvious, why wasn't it found by someone (like yourself for instance) in beta?
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
[ QUOTE ]
There is a villain accolade which you can only get by completing timed missions in sequence - one starts when you finish the last. You cannot go back and re-do it via Oro, you have to get it done right the first time. I would scream seven bells of murder if I was a badger that lost that chance because of inept communication skills of the staff of this company.
[/ QUOTE ]You're wrong on two counts here.
1) It's a badge, not required for any accolades. Efficiency Expert.
2) The missions are not auto-pulled. You have to contact Pither after each mission to get the next.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
|
[ QUOTE ]
They are having a horrible effect on the Markets.
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Yeah. Stuff that was dried up, and never to be seen again due to the rather disastrous effects of the Merit system on the market actually became AVAILABLE again! HORRIBLE! HORRIBLE!
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Inflation is out of hand. This is due to multiple things.
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The inflation is not AE's fault. It's the fault of greedy sellers and stupid buyers (not always both at the same time though).
[ QUOTE ]
As you have noted they are causing extra server down time
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, I challenge you to show ONE update since the advent of AE that was SOLELY comprised of PL/Farm/Exploit fixes. Unless you can actually do so, your accusation of "extra downtime" is unfounded.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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No, they don't even need to. All they need to do is run a SQL query to "discover"
[/ QUOTE ]
You presume they're using SQL. What if this isn't the case?
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
[ QUOTE ]
They are having a horrible effect on the Markets. Inflation is out of hand. This is due to multiple things.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny, I always thought that farmers were bringing a steady supply to the market so that prices can remain somewhat reasonable as opposed to them being increased considerably if the supply was lacking.
If rich buyer who can afford to "buy out" the auctioned item with a remarkably high price bid then expect it to happen. Subsequent sellers will most likely see that bid as a benchmark and base their prices on it. I can see that this practice has been around long before the AE so blaming it on the AE primarily reads to me as pure bias.
RMT and the decreased drop rates of purples is what is damaging the market. If anything, AE is increasing the supply of a lot of the rarer salvage.
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You presume they're using SQL. What if this isn't the case?
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I presume they're using some sort of queryable storage mechanism, SQL simply being the most obvious one. Even XML allows queries, heck... even a flat-file CSV system is still queryable.
Where there's input, there's output, you just have to ask the right questions and use the right tools, oh... and you should consult your data before you act... you know?
EDIT :: By the way, just had to add this. My story-arc had to be changed tonight after the patch because the Generators were pulled out of the AE pool. I don't know exactly what prompted the Devs to remove the Generators, perhaps it's the idea that one could create a mission where a tank would herd NPC's around a Generator, then the team would debuff them, lock'em down and simply destroy the Generator thus creating an AoE that would add to the ease of defeating the NPC's... maybe that's it, maybe not. Point is... yet again my creative effort is affected by an exploit, real or imagined, and the Devs' reaction to it.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
It was for the booster pack.
The anti-PLing exploit was added on to it.
Sure, whatever.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
That's what Beta programs are for Mandu, repeat after me... BETA... BETA... B-E-T-A!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Why in the world would anybody bother to farm in Beta? A farmer would try a few things out, find possible exploits, and then save those techniques for live.
Beta takes place on the test server. TEST... TEST... T-E-S-T.
You know the place where your characters could get wiped at any time just because the devs want to try something?
The place that can and does get locked away from player use for a month or more at a time when internal testing is going on?
The place where advancement and money don't really matter because you can populate all server slots with your purple IOd billionaire toon and then swap all that stuff over to any other toon you care to create?
The power gamers aren't going to waste their time figuring out all the exploits in Beta just so the exploit gets fixed before it gets to live. That's like playing chess and continually telling your opponent the next five moves you are going to make.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
[ QUOTE ]
Why in the world would anybody bother to farm in Beta? A farmer would try a few things out, find possible exploits, and then save those techniques for live.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? That's not what I would do.
If something is broken, I'll report it. Then farm the heck out of it till they fix it. I've never been in a closed beta, but then again, I've never been in an open beta for Co* either. Unless they offer free game time to testers, I see no point in beta testing. Let the QC guys getting paid find the bugs.
I do that in live, and I see no reason why I shouldn't do it in test if I ever get invited to one.
[ QUOTE ]
RMT and the decreased drop rates of purples is what is damaging the market. If anything, AE is increasing the supply of a lot of the rarer salvage.
[/ QUOTE ]
The market, overall, is pretty wonky right now. It's not just MA that's responsible for that, but it's clearly a big contributor.
Rare salvage seems to have evened out across the board. That's good in some cases, bad in others. Hey, I can get a Platinum for 500k. That's great. But now I have to pay that same amount for Black Blood of the Earth. Not so great. On the other hand, that's good news for lowbies playing regular content, selling their drops. Long and short of it: mixed bag.
Many uncommon and common salvage pieces have gone kooky. Particularly on blueside. This is mostly bad news. Especially for the impatient.
However, for the patient, there's a lot more Inf to be made on common IOs these days than there used to be.
Set recipes are drying up. Immediately after MA's release, there was a tremendous glut, and prices crashed. Now supply is dribbling in at a seemingly slower rate than it did before MA (which is pushing prices up). Still trying to figure this one out. I think a lot of factors are involved.
People are playing regular content enough to bring in a slow but steady supply of costume piece and temp power recipes.
...but they're still not playing that content at 50, because the purple shortage continues to worsen (Merits started that problem).
All told, based on everything I've been seeing, the market today is a very different animal than it was pre-MA, and the trend right now is that it's getting much more expensive to outfit a character. Especially a level 50. And especially if you want the high-end stuff.
That upward trend is probably going to continue into and beyond 2XXP weekend.
Ultimately, I don't think we're going to have a clear idea of how MA itself is impacting the market for the long-term until well into August.
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So, the Devs were not aware that the added feature where one could select the min/max level of a mission, coupled with the fact that the Mitos were left in the AE pool only have their attacks at higher levels, would cause a booming exploit...?
Not that I'm saying you're wrong. Of course it's going to be an enormous job to remove all exploits, but... as a software developer, I already know that anything that's given to an end-user can, and eventually will be, exploited. So, if preventing exploits is as important to the Devs as their response (locking characters, or deleting them) should lead us to believe... I for one would have preferred a system where less exploiting would have been possible because the rewards would have been lessened initially and gradually brought up, rather than forcing confusion upon my playerbase because the NPC's they rely on in their mission are here today and gone tomorrow.
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati