I just can't stand Dimension Shift...
By
AquaJAWS,
Posted on: 2009-07-14 13:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I hate Dimension shifty for a couple of reasons.
Its not an escape power since it doesnt hit all targets.
Its not something to take some encounter out of a fight since they still will come and get you....that whopping 10 seconds they are gone isnt going to help very much.
And if you do try to actualy use it for escaping lets say or to stop a group from hitting your group...the actual immobolization everyone brings up....doesnt ever last as long as the phase shift portion...so it allows the enmies to get into a good posistion to attack.
At most it messes up the AI of any pets you have and any non-player characters that are on your side.....
Basically i find the power broken in its attempt to do what its text describes...i find it broken because its usage isnt situational...its retarded....its been like this since as far back as i can remember.
I am probably biased....but go figure there are alot of powers that i consider broken inthis game....i have listed them and every so often someone mentions them in a forum....but go figure that nothing has ever been done about them.
What this game needs is someone going through and actualy checking each power to see if it has the right flow for it...there are at least 10 powers i can think of that dont work right or dont follow the correct flow for what they do.( by flow i mean energy cost, recharge time, and animation to use it compared to exactly what the power does.)
Don't bother wasting time adjusting this power. Change it to something useful, please!
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...mobs that are defeated still doing their damage after defeat....
Hopefully these are new bugs and not new WAI.
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Thanks for pointing this out. I've noticed this, too, and I hope it is a bug and not a new "feature."
Cats are independent, they don't listen, they don't come in when you call, they like to stay out all night, and when they're home they like to be left alone and sleep. In other words, every quality that women hate in a man, they love in a cat. - Jay Leno
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remember, underpowered team without IOs, VEATs or Brutes, so they may actually have to fight each spawn instead of just rolling through them), so the Grav Dom plants them all in place with Dimension Shift - he's probably already used his AE hold on the current spawn and AE immobilize would see him dead right quick.
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Teams made of masterminds, corruptors, and dominators with only SOs find good uses for Dimension Shift? 
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Under the circumstances and context originally presented, it is a possibility. Masterminds can still be overrun and Corruptors are still squishy without 20-30% defense added through IO sets and/or VEATs.
It's not an "every spawn" power, by any stretch; it's situational. More power to any player/team that's good enough to have never, ever, no really, EVER team-wiped. I'm not that awesome of a player. 
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[u]3-Step Plan for Appreciating Dimension Shift[u] according to LW
1) Find smarter teammates.
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Completely coincidentally, I made a suggestion to Castle regarding detention powers about the same time this thread was started specifically to address the fact that when used by critter allies it can often be a net buff to foes as anything else.
I was specifically thinking about detention field and not dimension shift - although I was thinking about foe intangibles in general - and the suggestion was basically to apply -regen/-recovery to the target (so it doesn't actually get stronger while shifted) and a fast-ticking low-damage DoT (so a target at the edge of being defeated can get eventually knocked out by the power), and a new "detention" animation so its obvious which targets are affected (the rapid low damage DoT ticks above their heads should also help there).
That doesn't affect anyone who is using it for some tactical purpose now, it just increases its useability a tad for players and makes it a bit less annoying when allies use it. I can even think about an AI tweak that might make it more tactically intelligent: mark the power as a heal: critters will then try to shift your foes generally only when you get low on health, and if it targets you with the power it might even target through to your target, which means you could theoretically select the target that is shifted (although this is less applicable to dimension shift).
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and a new "detention" animation so its obvious which targets are affected
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I actually picked up Sonic Cage for the first time on a lowbie sonic defender, as part of my pre-stamina build (swap to second build at 20-22).
It has a VERY obvious animation -- it would be nice if the other capture powers had something similar.
The way dimensional shfit/black hole use to work and the history of it changes are:
At game release: All mobs, effected and ones miss would run around.
This drove people nuts because it was so hard to figure out which was which.
The fix was make the ones that were phased immobile.
Since phased targets able to attack phased targets, per Sun Storm
"We've looked into this one. Apparently the AI reacted funny to the phase changes. Currently the AI thinks everyone is a valid target, even though it can't actually deal damage."
and it seems they are no longer immobile.
The ways I would use Black Hole/Dimensional shift.
Sometimes in a full there is a room that has 4 corridors, or a very large room fulll of mobs. Mez/immoble one group, aoe hold another, and phase shift another, if all the groups see you.
*Prior to phase shift changes*
When it had immobile with DS, I would only have 1-2 acc, then phase the group n run back away, thinning them.
With Black Hole on a defender, I would use it to herd a map to the team, or in situations when another group see's the team.
Lay down a dark anchor 4-5 groups back let the anchor catch up, lay a tar patch in the middle (turning off darkest night), BH the 3nd group, darkest night the second group, and then dark pit the first group. Stand around a corner or an object, cast dark servant, and watch the bad guys trickle in!
When the enimies engage the team, and the aggression is changed off of the defender to the dmg dealer, more and more mobs continue to trickle in, until you have a room full of fun!
Sometimes my team lives, sometimes they die but its alot of fun.
Edit: Oh yeah with a controller, you can use it on a AV group, and sometimes the AV is phased, or the rest of the group is phased while the AV is not, letting you mitigate the dmg of the group. But since they all run around it will be hard w/o alot of AOE dmg/rooting powers.
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More power to any player/team that's good enough to have never, ever, no really, EVER team-wiped. I'm not that awesome of a player.
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1) Find smarter teammates.
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Which is it? First you tell me you need extra smart teammates in order to use Dimension Shift. Then you tell me you need normal players in order to cause the accidents we all experience in missions.
I feel the latter is true and that Dimension Shift is not actually up to the challenge of helping teams in situations you would want it. Hell, on the best steamrolling teams, Flashfires, Stalagmites, and any AoE control are highly situational and almost never touched (or should be touched much less than they are). But when you need them, they help. When you need Dimension Shift, it sort of helps and it can greatly hinder. Flashfires really only ever minorly hinders (unless you slot the Stupefy: Chance for KB in it like I did for giggles, in which case it can also greatly hinder).
I am not saying situations where you need an AoE control do not exist. I am saying that a situation where you need an AoE control with the heavy drawback of Dimension Shift are almost non-existent (Bonfire's drawback is much less offensive for example, and many people still hate that). I'd much prefer an AoE control with less or no drawback. After all, I don't need smarter teammates to use Ice Slick and when something goes wrong I can prevent a team wipe with Terrify (or maybe even prevent the add in the first place with Smoke) without the heavy negative that Dimension Shift imposes.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I was specifically thinking about detention field and not dimension shift - although I was thinking about foe intangibles in general - and the suggestion was basically to apply -regen/-recovery to the target
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This is actually something I've thought about that would be nice for the foe capture/intangible powers to have. It turns these powers into a real "pause button", and I like that honestly.
By the same token, I was hoping that I could add this "functionality" to Phase Shift with the AE so I could do some story things with it (foe activates Phase, but is basically at 0 regen/recovery during its duration), but changing powers isn't possible.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
I'd be happy if phased foes would just stop attacking and running around. Since I'm used to using DS and usually team with experienced players, the other issues aren't as bad. I honestly thought this power had an Immobilize component at one time.
I don't think the power needs to be changed whole cloth to something else. Just:
1. Add an immobilize, placate, or hold effect for PVE only. The phase shift to phase shift battles that can happen in PVP are fine. They don't apply particuarly well in PVE though.
2. If it can somehow be made blatantly obvious that phase shifted characters in PVE are phased. Can they float, glow, or become completely untargetable? Again for PVE only. I think Phase Shift works fine in PVP and should be left alone for those purposes.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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2. If it can somehow be made blatantly obvious that phase shifted characters in PVE are phased. Can they float, glow, or become completely untargetable? Again for PVE only. I think Phase Shift works fine in PVP and should be left alone for those purposes.
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This. Just give us an "Invalid Selection" like what we get when Fake Nemesis mobs use their PFF.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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2. If it can somehow be made blatantly obvious that phase shifted characters in PVE are phased. Can they float, glow, or become completely untargetable? Again for PVE only. I think Phase Shift works fine in PVP and should be left alone for those purposes.
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This. Just give us an "Invalid Selection" like what we get when Fake Nemesis mobs use their PFF.
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In all my time fighting Nemesis, I have not once seen this "invalid selection" business you're referring to. Every time I've attacked a Fake Nemesis who's put up his PFF, I get the "Unaffected!" message floating over his head.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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2. If it can somehow be made blatantly obvious that phase shifted characters in PVE are phased. Can they float, glow, or become completely untargetable? Again for PVE only. I think Phase Shift works fine in PVP and should be left alone for those purposes.
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This. Just give us an "Invalid Selection" like what we get when Fake Nemesis mobs use their PFF.
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Let's not make them untargetable. This way people can still preemptively set up anchors on them and such.
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2. If it can somehow be made blatantly obvious that phase shifted characters in PVE are phased. Can they float, glow, or become completely untargetable? Again for PVE only. I think Phase Shift works fine in PVP and should be left alone for those purposes.
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This. Just give us an "Invalid Selection" like what we get when Fake Nemesis mobs use their PFF.
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In all my time fighting Nemesis, I have not once seen this "invalid selection" business you're referring to. Every time I've attacked a Fake Nemesis who's put up his PFF, I get the "Unaffected!" message floating over his head.
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My Mistake - It might have been Crey Juggernauts or something.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
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[u]3-Step Plan for Appreciating Dimension Shift[u] according to LW
1) Find smarter teammates.
[/ QUOTE ]
Completely coincidentally, I made a suggestion to Castle regarding detention powers about the same time this thread was started specifically to address the fact that when used by critter allies it can often be a net buff to foes as anything else.
I was specifically thinking about detention field and not dimension shift - although I was thinking about foe intangibles in general - and the suggestion was basically to apply -regen/-recovery to the target (so it doesn't actually get stronger while shifted) and a fast-ticking low-damage DoT (so a target at the edge of being defeated can get eventually knocked out by the power), and a new "detention" animation so its obvious which targets are affected (the rapid low damage DoT ticks above their heads should also help there).
That doesn't affect anyone who is using it for some tactical purpose now, it just increases its useability a tad for players and makes it a bit less annoying when allies use it. I can even think about an AI tweak that might make it more tactically intelligent: mark the power as a heal: critters will then try to shift your foes generally only when you get low on health, and if it targets you with the power it might even target through to your target, which means you could theoretically select the target that is shifted (although this is less applicable to dimension shift).
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Seeing as how dev won't completely change the power, I think your idea is pretty sound.
My vote is still Reverse Ice Slick. It fits the Gravity theme perfectly. I've been watching a lot of BlazBlue fighting games on youtube and one of V-13's moves is like a gravity power that pulls you upward.
Is it possible to have a Reversed Ice Slick? You drop a big patch, and the game checks for a chance to "knock up"? The chance is much smaller than knockdown of course but at least you can use it frequently without messing with teammates.
My problem with Dimension Shift is that it's not even a very good "Oh no!" power. The best "Oh no!!" is to RUN AWAY!
DS seems to confuse players more than it actually helps. Ok, I understand sometimes you can reduce some aggro from a patrol group but other players still complain about "Unaffected" message.
I don't believe that if a power is hated by 9/10 people, it is User Error (when I say 9/10 it includes both Gravity user and those who's experienced with DS/Blackhole). The only people who would say that are programmers as my business partner is a programmer and he needs to force himself to get out of that "Programmer mentality" (basically he thinks other people are just stupid). This is why I am in charge of Site navigation and Check-out process on our website because I care way more about that 9 people than that 1 person who thinks the "power" is fine. If 8 or 9 out of 10 people complain how confusing it is to navigate my website, I would choose to improve it rather than to tell them "you are not trying hard enough!"
PS: By the way, do you have a good idea of Stalker's Replus in Energy Aura? 
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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The chance is much smaller than knockdown of course
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Why a smaller chance, much less a MUCH smaller chance? Its OK for Ice Slick and Earthquake to work; but you want to replace a crappy AoE control with another crappy AoE control? I'd rather keep DS instead of a half powered Ice Slick.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
If this happened recently, I'm assuming something may have happened when the PvP only Phase Shift vs Phase Shift went into effect.
I know that was not to effect PvE, but it sounds like something that would happen if it did.
Since the various Make-enemy-intangible powers are hated by so many, this is a rarely used power, so I can't even tell you the last time I saw one of these power used.
One of the reasons that it has been neglected are two fold ::
<ul type="square">[*]It isn't easy visually to tell if an enemy is Phase Shifted, regardless if they are attacking you, running away, or standing still.[*]The Phase-shifted effect ends abruptly.[/list]
The first is clearly the main concern of the OP's post, but if you are going to take time to tinker with the power, it might as well be improved even a bit more to make the power more team friendly.
Giving a glow and increasing enemy transparency would go a long way for the power visibility issue.
As it isn't a toggle power and ends abruptly, a flicker warning that it was going to give out starting 5 or 10 seconds before the power ends would be nice. - ie. a strobing effect when the power is "counting down" slow at first and then increasing until the enemy remains solid. This would give a team or even a solo player time to react to the immanent re-solidifying of the phase shifted enemies.
Just a thought. I said I wouldn't do this any more, but this power does need help.
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My vote is still Reverse Ice Slick. It fits the Gravity theme perfectly.
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If you're talking theme, the power is called "Dimension Shift." I see no reason we should be shifting them to an especially peaceful dimension.
Have the power cause all affected targets to disappear completely for five seconds. When they reappear, have the targets all be randomly either:
1. On fire and afraid
2. Frozen and immobilized
3. Choking on fumes
4. Confused
5. Impaled
6. Affected by mag 100 knockup
I think that's theoretically doable by the game engine, although it might take some creative attribmodding by the powers team.
Heck, I don't even care if that fits the gravity theme or not. I just like the idea.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Have the power cause all affected targets to disappear completely for five seconds. When they reappear, have the targets all be randomly...
Heck, I don't even care if that fits the gravity theme or not.
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Gravity already randomly tosses objects from out of nowhere, it fits fine.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Come on dev, let's just change the power all-together!!! You know you want it!
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Reverse Gravity Field - AoE patch like Ice Slick, except it is Knockup instead of Knockdown. You know you want it!
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Mark me down for the "Hell Yes!" category.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight