I believe the consensus these days is Regen can do the same things as other powersets but it requires a higher skill level to do so - which might be a + or a -, some enjoy having an active secondary, some hate it.
(I haven't played Regen to 50, this is just what I've heard.)
Yeah, Regen generally requires more skill/attention to get the most out of it due to its clicky nature. As for comparing it to WP/Invuln, I guess it depends what you want from your secondary.
If you want really early endless endurance regen and like having an active secondary then regen is a great choice. If you just want to toggle up and go kill stuff you might prefer Invuln/WP.
My personal opinion is that WP is about as fun for me to play as watching paint dry. Invuln looks like it might be fun but I haven't played it for a long, long time.
I don't know if its relevant to your choice, but in my opinion MoG is lightyears better than Unstoppable or SoW as a tier 9. While SoWs crash is no where near as harsh as Unstoppables,
I just really like the idea of a crashless burst of godhood so I can catch my breath and maybe ensure the stuff breathing around me isn't for much longer 
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
*/Regen is lower maintenance at low levels of play than any other secondary that I've seen. You just turn on Integration and pop Recon and Dull Pain on occasion. Instant Healing and MoG are reserved for times when those two powers are down. Not really much too it. It's only slightly more work than playing any other secondary.
At the top tier of play though, */regen starts falling behind. Because you're having to expend animation time to keep yourself alive, you're going to have some issues especially when using the powers in the middle of a fight when you've got attacks eating up that very same animation time. With heavily invested IO builds, */regen is a decent competitor but falls pretty far behind the softcap capable builds simply because of the design of the set and how it handles the additional benefits available to all players (re: regen gets less from both damage mitigation and damage recovery type powers because it doesn't have the damage mitigation in its primary to stack mitigation up with and it's got so much damage recovery that the comparative benefits of getting more are negligible).
Regeneration is a great power set but needs defense to help with the passive regeneration and needs some bloody debuff resistance!
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
A regen scrapper at level 10 is great fun. If new scrapper primaries are added, I will probably roll an X/Regen just to check them out at lower levels.
A regen scrapper at level 50 is nervous. Animation lag, system lag, and human reaction time lag can all get you killed.
I'd roll willpower instead. Yes, unlike Regen, your character will be difficult to play before level 22. Once you hit that level --- and you should have both Stamina and Quick Recovery at 22 to boot --- it's nothing but up, up, up. You will be just as prepared as the Regen scrapper to run Tough and Weave, and they will do a lot more for you. You won't have to worry about self-heals failing because some other animation is playing. You won't have to worry about self-heals failing because the system isn't recognizing them as recharged even though your toolbar says they are. You will have more layered survivability, with defense and resistance on top of regeneration, than the Regen scrapper gets.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Many thanks for all the replies! Much appreciated.
At 39 now. Think I'll save this one for later and re-roll. (I am more interested in a good end-level build than "e-z xp" upfront.)
Would Willpower also be the way to go to have a shot at some (semi/off) tanking when needed? Or does adding that criteria open up a whole new discussion? (probably does 
)
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*/Regen is lower maintenance at low levels of play than any other secondary that I've seen. You just turn on Integration and pop Recon and Dull Pain on occasion. Instant Healing and MoG are reserved for times when those two powers are down. Not really much too it. It's only slightly more work than playing any other secondary.
At the top tier of play though, */regen starts falling behind. Because you're having to expend animation time to keep yourself alive, you're going to have some issues especially when using the powers in the middle of a fight when you've got attacks eating up that very same animation time. With heavily invested IO builds, */regen is a decent competitor but falls pretty far behind the softcap capable builds simply because of the design of the set and how it handles the additional benefits available to all players (re: regen gets less from both damage mitigation and damage recovery type powers because it doesn't have the damage mitigation in its primary to stack mitigation up with and it's got so much damage recovery that the comparative benefits of getting more are negligible).
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This pretty much summarizes my experience as well.
That said, Regen combined with Parry or Divine Avalanche is ridiculously good. This has a lot to do with the ease of stacking Ranged and AoE defense. Parry/DA fill the hole in defense, making /Regen scrapper using those sets really capable of incredible stuff.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Invul is the best bar none for tanking, the aggro aura is unbelievably good compared to all other options and the mitigation is great against anything that's not psi ; with the highest mitigation ceiling, it works well as a tanker on the high end encounters, but again it's really the aggro aura that makes the set suited for tanking.
WP is better than Regen for tanking, just not very good at it - the aggro aura doesn't last long, you'll have to work hard at keeping aggro and sometimes there's just nothing you'll be able to do to get the aggro. On the other hand, the performance is more or less the same against any opponent so it's easy to know where you're at in terms of survivability.
Regen is very interactive and requires a lot of focus to pull off top tier performance. That makes it my favorite of the secondaries, at least when I'm awake and focused. When I just want to sit back and go on cruise control, other secondaries are better. But I've noticed that I've turned even my Super Reflexes into a click fest, what with Practiced Brawler, Hasten, Conserve Power, Dark Consumption and Soul Drain. I guess its just the play style I enjoy.
Willpower is probably the most cruise control of all. That lets you focus on your main task, doing damage. I find it a little boring, yet I have a Willpower scrapper at 50, a Willpower brute at 50, and another Willpower brute lowbie. Boring, yes, but effective and very easy to play when I just want to turn my brain off and kill things.
I haven't actually played Invulnerability since the recent buffs. When I was leveling my Broad Sword/Invulerability up to 50, I had to take Aid Self to even approach the feats my other scrappers were easily pulling off. That made it pretty clicky sometimes. It hasn't had a big buff, but apparently it was enough that Invulnerability is now very good. Excellent against smashing and lethal, not so great against psionic. Great back up tank.
Umbral is right about */Regen being low maintenance at a low level of play, though. For normal missioning, my Katana/Regen never has to click anything. It's only when things get really difficult that I have to pay close attention. On the other hand, for normal missioning, my Dark Melee/Super Reflexes doesn't even have to toggle up, so I'm not sure which should be considered easier.
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A regen scrapper at level 50 is nervous. Animation lag, system lag, and human reaction time lag can all get you killed.
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Yes, nervous. That's a good way to describe it. Things can kill you very very fast unless you react quickly and appropriately, or in many cases anticipate what's about to happen instead of merely reacting to it. Most of my Regen scrapper deaths are from oops, not from I'm all out of tools to keep me alive. Many of my deaths occur with every click power available, they occur so fast.
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I am more interested in a good end-level build than "e-z xp" upfront.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. Katana/Regen is a great end level build. It can do most anything anyone else can do. It's an extremely fast race car. It's just also a twitchy, oversteering, likely to suddenly vault you over the guard rail and into the crowd race car that takes some experience to drive to the limit (and will still occasionally bite you).
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Like you, I started off playing as a /regen. My first and 2nd scrappers were /regen. I gave rolling scrappers a break until /wp came out. Going from /regen to /wp was like starting a video game on hard, beating it, then playing on easy. I still like /regen over /wp for its easy early game play. I hate the lag issues in dealing with the clicks. But every set is gonna have something about that ticks you off. It is true that /regen needs skill. But if you have skill, why would you care? As an altoholic, I say you should give /regen a rest as give the other sets a try. That way you have something to compare it to and make your own observation. Be warned. Having quick recovery that early spoils you to no end. Hang in there. Lol
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
So far I've done 2 Regens (MA/Regen, DM/Regen), 1 SD (DM/SD), 2 WPs to 50 (Kat/WP, DB/WP). I have 2 DA's in the late 30's and 2 SRs in the early 40s.
Of my experiences, /Regen is very fun and survivable if you're paying attention, WP is fun, but sometimes you know you're gonna die and just waiting for it to happen without the right inspirations. Right now SD is my favorite secondary for decent survivability and Shield Charge (love!). Paired with the right primary and enough influence, my DM/SD and Kat/WP scrappers have done some of the craziest things I could've asked of them.
In the end I'd say it's all about what primary you pair it up with. Katana/, being an amazing primary powerset for almost any secondary, would be a great choice for Regen just for the stacked mitigation benefits. I haven't taken one to 50 but I would imagine some awesome things that combination could pull off.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
Old topic is old.
Regen stands shoulder to shoulder with the other secondaries.
Having said that, it works best with primaries that don't have weapon draw animation (I.e. claws, katana, BS, DB). This is because every time you click on a power in Regen (which you do quite often), you will have to redraw your weapon.
Of the three non-weapon sets, Dark Melee has the best synergy with Regeneration in terms of survival & utility.
Maybe, someday, if we're very lucky, Scraps will get Super Strength - whose knockdown abilities would offset the biggest weakness Regeneration has: sustained incoming damage. Should that happy day ever come, Regen will once again be back on top as a favorite.
For now, because the weapon sets are widely considered the best for damage, Willpower & Invul are more preferred. For flat-out damage characters, Shield Mastery is a contender due to the damage buff & shield charge. Super Reflexes is still a favorite for AV killing simply because of the ease with which you can soft-cap defense.
Why do I do do do things I do
Nobody was ever there for me to talk to
Once I was youngster, pure and true
Now I'm running with a sick, sick crew.
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Having said that, it works best with primaries that don't have weapon draw animation (I.e. claws, katana, BS, DB). This is because every time you click on a power in Regen (which you do quite often), you will have to redraw your weapon.
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"works best" is very opinionated, as I believe regen works best with either Katana or Broad Sword due to the added defense from Divine Avalanche and Parry.
My very first 50 scrapper was a regen, after that I went Inv to 50, DA to 40 then stopped, SR to 50, and a WP to 50. Since the SR I've racked up another SR to 50 and currently am working on another one (at 42 currently).
For me SR is a perfect set because it's cheap to softcap and requires no intervention other than Practiced Brawler, which I have auto'd on my SRs.
My BS/INV was a lot of fun because I like to herd, a few issues back they gave Inv some buffs, but I haven't respec'd my toon to benefit from them yet; mainly because I have some damage procs in Invincibility and won't be able to put them back in afterward.
I leveled up a DB/WP after it's release just to see how the two sets play. I don't have anything negative to say about the set, other than it's taunt aura is weak which makes it less fun than Inv.
I really liked regen (back when IH was a toggle), but was put off to it for two main reasons:
The constant downgrades
My short attention span
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
In all honesty, I never thought of redraw as that much of a problem until I got my widow to 41 and picked up gloom then had to draw my claws to fire mental blast right after. The redraw from my BS/regen never bothered me. I think its more of an issue when you put in actual attacks that don't use a weapon followed by attacks with a weapon.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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Old topic is old.
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And wrong poster is wrong.
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Regen stands shoulder to shoulder with the other secondaries.
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Only for the SO based game exclusive of power pools. Because */Regen benefits less from IO set bonuses and power pool options than all of the other power sets thanks to what it's already packing actually making it lag behind the other sets where optimizes endgame is concerned. This is already ignoring the lack of debuff resistance, animation time costs that are never actually balanced out, and lag/power delay that all interfere with the highly reactive nature of the powerset as it stands.
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Having said that, it works best with primaries that don't have weapon draw animation (I.e. claws, katana, BS, DB). This is because every time you click on a power in Regen (which you do quite often), you will have to redraw your weapon.
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Interestingly enough, weapon redraw is actually very minor. It's a matter of 1-2 clock intervals added to your power which aren't really going to create a substantive penalty, especially since the nominal sword sets have incredible synergy with */regen thanks to DA and Parry being able to contribute a huge quantities of the damage mitigation that Regen would otherwise never get.
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For now, because the weapon sets are widely considered the best for damage
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Actually, the weapon sets are not best for damage and are actually a goodly bit away from the top. Dark Melee and Fire Melee are tops for ST damage, and Spines and Claws are tops for AoE damage. The weapon sets are all average across the board but aren't anywhere near being able to beat the sets I mentioned above at dishing out damage.
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Willpower & Invul are more preferred. For flat-out damage characters, Shield Mastery is a contender due to the damage buff & shield charge. Super Reflexes is still a favorite for AV killing simply because of the ease with which you can soft-cap defense.
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Personally, I have yet to see the plethora of Invuln Scrappers that you seem to be seeing and the */WP Scrappers I've seen are doing so for a completely different reason: it's easy to play */WP, plus, it's new. As for top end builds, */SD is probably the favorite right now simply because it gets excellent survivability and adds a significant amount of damage to already high damage sets. */SR was the previous favorite because of softcapping. */Invuln is still lagging a bit behind simply because it only recently got buffed up a bit, making it an excellent contender.
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Actually, the weapon sets are not best for damage and are actually a goodly bit away from the top. Dark Melee and Fire Melee are tops for ST damage, and Spines and Claws are tops for AoE damage. The weapon sets are all average across the board but aren't anywhere near being able to beat the sets I mentioned above at dishing out damage.
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Been actually looking at Katana with the ability to put in 2 -res IO...
Have not run any numbers on it but I'm thinking it could be very high up the list for ST damage, that of course not counting in shields for DM or FM...
I can honestly say i have done all secondaries to 50 with dark melee. My personal favorites by far are sr and sheilds. As a matter of QoL for the character and game play, I always find it better to not be hit then to mitigate effects- although getting hit makes it much more interesting.
The scope of this topic is very broad since effectiveness/utility of the secondary can often be altered to some degree by the primary, example: my dm /regen and /wp often felt redundant (in typical game play) because of the constant healing afforded by multiple sources, over-abundance of end, etc. Whereas invuln, sr, shield and DA felt very complementary. /fire is decent overall, esp damage, but still seemed a little too squishie solo for big game (never lived up to the hype one would think), but faired better on teams so one could focus on damage.
Note that *these* builds never made use of IO's (except dm/sr)in any degree, it was just the case that I enjoyed dm/ a lot and wanted to experiment with secondaries.
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
BS/Regen was my first character to 50, and I still play him more often than any other of my characters. That said...
Regen really starts to lag behind once other characters start formatting their builds with IO's. Not to say that Regen doesn't also become more powerful from IO slotting, but that the things Regen focuses in aren't really the things IO's focus on, ie: Regenerating HP. There is a massive disparity between defense and just about anything else, and any character that starts out with even a little bit of defense in their secondary can usually achieve very high defense with IO's. The same cannot be said for regeneration.
You can slot regen up for defense as well, sure. The best I've seen anyone manage in this regard is around 20% or so to all positions. This is decent, you won't evade all attacks by any means, but you'll evade enough to make a substantial difference in your survival. The problem is, once you start getting hit with defense debuffs, and you will, because they're freaking everywhere, you can start kissing that investment goodbye.
In fact, Regen has no Debuff Resistance of any kind, and because Regen is not dodging anything, it gets hit with everything. Any debuff in the game has absolutely no mercy to you, and you will constantly be slowed down with every attack that hits you in some way or another. Compare this to defense focused sets, such as /Super Reflexes who, by the nature of defense, dodge most debuffs and keep on going. In a round-about way you can argue that defense sets not only have defense debuffs resistance, but resistance to everything since if you can't hit them with it, you can't apply it to them.
Worse, regen doesn't even have mitigation for it's two focuses; Regen and Recharge. Once either of those debuffs hit you, Regen becomes greatly crippled, where as defense based sets usually retain a portion of their defense so that they can take out their enemeis before their debuffed into nothing. Regen, on the other hand, is instantly turned off, and you have to hope you have a click ready, the guy is almost dead, or you packed some... *cough* defense inspirations to bolster yourself up to soft-capped levels.
Regen really requires that you know your enemy, what he can do, and what you'll have available to fight him. You really need to be able to predict what can happen at any given time and what you'll need to do in preparation. Going off of what Werner was saying, you'll often die with a feeling of "What did I do wrong" where as other sets you'll be more likely to just shrug it off with "Well that was unlucky." Regen requires you to put a fair bit more thought process into what you're doing to receive equal or worse results as the other secondaries.
"old topic is old"- and everything's new to someone. Whatever.
Werner said [ QUOTE ]
It hasn't had a big buff, but apparently it was enough that Invulnerability is now very good.
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I think the main buff was to the way IO's treat typed damage. You can now easily get very high smash/lethal/fire/cold defense [and probably get en/neg as well, I just know Aegis and Kin Combat off the top of my head. ]
Regen's always struck me as a "spectacular at level 10, mediocre at level 40" set... but I've always been playing other scrappers instead. My wife loves Regen, but she started on Blasters, so it's a survival-fest to her, by comparison.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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You can now easily get very high smash/lethal/fire/cold defense [and probably get en/neg as well, I just know Aegis and Kin Combat off the top of my head. ]
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Fulmens: Kin Combat for s/l, Aegis for f/c, Erradication (pbaoe) for e/ne. Don't forget the hybridization of typed/positional sharing half their value for the other form of defense. Now Invuln can slot things like BoZephyr and still get 1.56% e/ne/f/c for the 3 slot bonus, or 1.25% to all six with Guassian, etc. Typed defense got a huge buff.
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Many of my deaths occur with every click power available, they occur so fast.
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Werner: This is my biggest frustration with Regen. Everytime I die in the blink of an eye, I feel extremely cheated. It's frustrating on squishies, but more-so on a Scrapper. You, along with several others, have proved it can still be a strong set, but it just doesn't suit me anymore.
This thread has made my choice for sunday real clear. I'm bringing one of my regens to the all scrapper stf!!
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
For the benefit of the OP, Regen is still a great set despite being more high-maintenance compared to Willpower or Super Reflexes. Of all the sets, I think it has the easiest ride through the lower levels. On the end-game, high-end challenges at level 40+, it's still a great and reliable scrapper for pretty much anything out there.
Now, some people have said that regen lags behind other sets because of IOs and certain other challenges. Most of that is hype. Oh yes, Regen doesn't get as much of a return in benefits from IO sets as other secondaries do, but that doesn't mean you are going to suck [censored] either. I was able to take a MA/Regen scrapper (arguably the weakest primary) through the RWZ Challenge and solo a Rikti Pylon, so don't think that Regen will fall too far behind other sets while you are having fun in the game.
However, some of the naysayers of Regen are correct because of the need to specialize a build for very particular goals, such as AV hunting. Some people like to make very specialized builds, which require picking certain powers, sets, and forsaking certain QoL powers (like travel powers) in order to min/max for the task at hand. In this case, other sets might be more attractive than Regen, unless you are ready to pair up Regen with one of the Broadsword or Katana.
But in general, Regen is good as any other set out there. As long as you are having fun with it, then that's the right set for you.
I find that regen is very awesome at level 40. A friend and I were going through the nem story arc at level 39. I was on my ket/regen, and he was on his bs/sd. We also had a claws/sr with us. Every time the nem hit vengeance, both of the other scrappers were toast. I was fine though.
Hiya,
)
I've always preferred scrappers. And, for some reason I can no longer remember, I have always chosen /regen. Having spent some time reading the posts here, I am now not as convinced anymore.
I recently swapped servers (EU to US), and am rebuilding my main (went with Kat/regen). I was wondering if there is anyone out there who has played regen and any other scrappers at 50 and could spare some time to compare the experiences? (Beyond the obvious answers of "there is no single best scrapper, it's all about how you want to play the game", etc. - subjective, biased and completely personal viewpoints are all welcomed!
In particular I am interested in hearing any personal preferences and views regarding regen vs. WP/INV.
As to game style... I solo a lot. Apart from that nothing in particular.