So many subjects on this I just turn a blind eye.
They probably have something in mind they'll add in for issue 16.
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So many subjects on this I just turn a blind eye.
They probably have something in mind they'll add in for issue 16.
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this isnt helping me 
...you dint even yay or nay it
It's certainly one of the more interested, although convoluted ideas for curbing PL'ing via the AE.
Instead of calling for bans on farmers/farms/farming, you look at reduce the rewards for doing so, towards making it unprofitable.
patrol xp is not used up in AE missions, if you hover over your xp bar the patrol xp will stay the same. The visual effect doesn't indicate this well, but it is true. I do believe debt uses patrol xp up, so if you die in AE that will reduce patrol xp.
Granting players an xp debuff is probably an easier way to handle reducing AE xp earning while the method you suggest is pretty convoluted and limiting to players that do want to partake in normal running of arcs in AE as opposed to running the same content they have been replaying for 5 years.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
AE Farming Curb idea: Diminishing XP returns? You can only play in the AE for so long in a particular timespan and earn so much XP before you start being penalized.
Theoretically, this shouldn't affect most story-oriented players, who are used to getting slightly skewed rewards anyway (and likely aren't reaching farmer-level XP/hour), while potentially frustrating farmers.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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--AE XP is only usable in AE but is still used up when not in AE (just like how Patrol XP doesnt work in AE but still goes away)
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IIRC Patrol XP doesn't go away while you gain xp in AE missions.
<QR>
This'd severely neuter casual uses of AE that aren't farming/PLing. Last night I gained 4 levels on my Brute playing story arcs in AE... which started at level 6. Under this system, I would have maxed out at 1 level (which doesn't take that long to get through at these levels), and the rest of the time would have been largely wasted (not to mention, the team would have likely disbanded in the middle of the story arc).
I gotta /unsign this, it's far too heavy handed, and wouldn't impact the farming at all (PLing it'd kill, because it'd kill all leveling... and back to PI/Grandville that'd go!).
IMO, better solution is to just fix the level 54 trick and the 1-rank only trick... and then AE is very similar to the standard farms w.r.t. performance. I don't want to see the people that are using AE as the Dev's intended being shafted because some people over react about every change.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Considering that the curve would be carefully weighted, I don't think getting from 6 to 10 would trigger it unless you got all of those levels within the span of a single mission, maybe.
Also note that I didn't say you'd stop getting XP altogether.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
Sorry, meant that as a QR to the OP, I edited my last post to show that now. My bad.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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AE Farming Curb idea: Diminishing XP returns? You can only play in the AE for so long in a particular timespan and earn so much XP before you start being penalized.
Theoretically, this shouldn't affect most story-oriented players, who are used to getting slightly skewed rewards anyway (and likely aren't reaching farmer-level XP/hour), while potentially frustrating farmers.
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Perhaps have an "AE XP Bar" akin to a Brute's Fury bar. It fills as you gain XP in the AE, and after say... 5 lvls worth of XP it is full and you gain XP in the AE at maybe as much as 1/5th the normal. Once you earn 5 lvls of XP outside the MA, the AE XP Bar clears, and you earn normal rewards inside it again.
There aren't many arcs that will give you that much XP, and yous can alternate between regular and AE missions.
AE farms are a symptom, not the problem.
Mission farming was a symptom of the same problem - The only reason it was more limited was because not everyone could do it. All AE has done is put everyone on an even playing field.
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AE farms are a symptom, not the problem.
Mission farming was a symptom of the same problem - The only reason it was more limited was because not everyone could do it. All AE has done is put everyone on an even playing field.
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Huh?
Evening the playing field is not to give access to everyone, it's to make AE farm access roughly as limited to mission farming.
You don't know what you're talking about. Mission farming was every bit as effective as AE farming, it's just that it was limited to certain builds and certain conditions - So a handful of people skewed the market and no one else could compete.
AE missions have leveled the playing field by allowing any random group of eight to effectively farm - This reality is reflected the lowering of prices on the market and the evening out of prices from one rare to another. Increased availability combined with the ability for everyone to farm at the a competitive capacity. No longer do we have 5% of the players farming for 90% of the loot and then using thier own concentration of wealth to skew the market prices out of reach of everyone else.
Now everyone can be a part of the economic process, with any character, but simplying joining an AE farm team - A far more simple and inclusive process than the prior system consisting of lone farmers, sometimes with bots, but always restricted to a handful of useful archetypes doing all the farming to pay for those who can't do it.
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You don't know what you're talking about. Mission farming was every bit as effective as AE farming, it's just that it was limited to certain builds and certain conditions - So a handful of people skewed the market and no one else could compete.
AE missions have leveled the playing field by allowing any random group of eight to effectively farm - This reality is reflected the lowering of prices on the market and the evening out of prices from one rare to another. Increased availability combined with the ability for everyone to farm at the a competitive capacity. No longer do we have 5% of the players farming for 90% of the loot and then using thier own concentration of wealth to skew the market prices out of reach of everyone else.
Now everyone can be a part of the economic process, with any character, but simplying joining an AE farm team - A far more simple and inclusive process than the prior system consisting of lone farmers, sometimes with bots, but always restricted to a handful of useful archetypes doing all the farming to pay for those who can't do it.
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I don't think this is very accurate. I think a good understanding would be to consider a "normal" toon outside of AE doing a speed of 1. A farming toon can essentially do a speed of 2 outside of AE. Inside AE now these normal toons can do 2. Inside AE farming toons can do 4. Mission farming is not as effective as AE.
The fastest mission farming I've ever seen... and I think I've seen nearly everything... takes about 10 hours from 1-50. Inside MA about 5. That's really fast and really REALLY fast but still twice the speed. MA doesn't change the ratio. Toons built to do it are still about twice as fast as toons NOT built to do it. I think your misconception is that because normal toons are going faster you are catching up. I think you have yet to comprehend how fast the top of the line can go in MA.
The field hasn't been leveled. You've just caught up to last year.
/unsigned.
The intention behind the mission architect is for any character to use it as an alternate leveling path from 1-50. Anything that restricts the ability to do so is a bad idea. And yes, it's still a bad idea even if you think it will reduce farming.
you can still go from 1-50...especially if you play several characters...and the only example of this being negative towards normal play is the low levels...the extreme case...if you look at the higher levels, a full level is a lot more XP and usually takes plenty more time to do...
plus, if it makes it harder to level lower characters fast, then it IS doing its job correctly...it pushes new players out of AE (experienced players know how to go from 1-12 in a day anyway)
also, i thought the whole thing was rather reasonable...obviously a few of you feel differently...i dont think any normal player is going to be restricted by this (though, i am used to leveling defenders solo...never played a FOTM scrapper, so maybe they might get slowed)
on a side note- i felt that this system made AE feel more like an actual game inside of the city...i mean, the heroes have real stuff to do and cant spend their whole day playing...
So Ill take my 50 and PL several toons, one at a time, until they reach their max each time. Not really worried about lower returns on my farmer toon since it is finished. So this would really not do anything to farmers but would potentially hurt those doing regular missions on a team that burns through them quickly.
/unsigned
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you can still go from 1-50
[/ QUOTE ]No you can't! For every one level you gain via AE, you'd have to already done 4-6 levels outside AE! That's not an alternative leveling path at all.
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plus, if it makes it harder to level lower characters fast, then it IS doing its job correctly...it pushes new players out of AE (experienced players know how to go from 1-12 in a day anyway)
[/ QUOTE ]It doesn't make it "harder to level lower characters fast", it makes it impossible to "level lower characters". Period.
The reason I like the AE most is that it's an alternative from having to do the same exact stories arcs I've been doing for years yet again- or more likely, just grind the same damn radio/newspaper mission over and over again for hours (or like a lot of teams do, just farm one!).
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also, i thought the whole thing was rather reasonable...obviously a few of you feel differently...i dont think any normal player is going to be restricted by this (though, i am used to leveling defenders solo...never played a FOTM scrapper, so maybe they might get slowed)
[/ QUOTE ]Yes they will. I've been doing normal AE teams for several nights now running various arcs. I wouldn't have been able to do a single one of them because of this change. It's gonna become hard as hell to find people for an AE team if they have to fill up their little magical AE bar that they can't even see! People will just end up assuming you don't get XP in AE, and will shun it because of that.
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on a side note- i felt that this system made AE feel more like an actual game inside of the city...i mean, the heroes have real stuff to do and cant spend their whole day playing...
[/ QUOTE ]So it's "heroes should go back to PI and go back to just ignoring the thugs they see on the street"? Like its been since launch?
In sum, I hate this idea. It's a needlessly complicated system that'll only kill what the devs said they wanted AE to be (ya know, to solve the issue of the content crunch- where the devs spend months creating a couple story arcs, then the entire playerbase finishes it all in 45 minutes and asks for more?), while still allowing people to farm tickets just as easily as ever.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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/e palm_face
Just another one of my failures I guess...
I can't imagine what it must be like at Paragon Studios when Devs suggest new ideas...(oh the fights that must ensue)
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I can't imagine what it must be like at Paragon Studios when Devs suggest new ideas...(oh the fights that must ensue)
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I imagine some spirited discourse, but without it going to "fight" level. After all, there would be a chain of command structure and some knowledge of the overall "vision" for the game.
Or you could just let me and my 15 bucks play the way i want to
So long as you don't spam the bejeebers out of Broadcast and produce new players who quit after a month because they thought that hitting L50 a few times in a week in a single zone was all there was to CoX.
Or freshly-minted L50's that have never been outside of Atlas and don't know what an enhancement is...
Now if you want to quietly grind out the "phat ExPees" and as much loot to dump on the Market then go right ahead, I'll enjoy the price-lowering effect that added supply makes. But when you start behaving in a way that is detrimental to the long-term survival of the game, or blatantly ignoring the agreement that you click [I Agree] every time you log on, then you can expect limitations placed.
Yes That is exactly how i do it actually BBQ, i only farm with friends, and when we do invite other people to our farms we actually check vet badges (less than 9 months and tough luck)
I don't spam because as I have said i only farm with friends, so i don't really ever need to look for people.
Contrary to popular belief all farmers arent evil, I can honestly say that i dont farm Mitos and have never farmed meow/rikti comms, theres no challenge i like it when things hit back lol
Alright...
Since the Devs still want XP in AE missions so it is still an alternate route from 1-50, XP (which is one of the main problems) cant really be touched...or can it?
...so here it is...make the XP a little more limited
--every day (off line) you are given a bar of AE XP (just like Patrol XP)
--AE XP is only usable in AE but is still used up when not in AE (just like how Patrol XP doesnt work in AE but still goes away)
--You may turn on AE Mode (just like SG Mode) and gain AE XP along side of your normal XP (before multipliers like 2xXPWE and Patrol XP) at a 4XP : 1AE XP ratio.
--No matter how the AE XP is earned, it caps out at one levels worth of XP (ten bars, just like Patrol XP)
--AE XP has no multiplier, it just allows you to gain XP in AE at 100% (2xXPWE = 200% & Patrol XP = 150%)
--When you run out of AE XP, you gain 0 XP while playing AE missions, no matter what
--In order to simplify the UI, you cannot see AE XP on your XP when you are out of AE...and vice versa with Patrol XP (it cant be seen while in AE) since it isnt usable at those times anyway. they can still be viewed by right clicking the XP though.
So why do this?
Well, AE remains an alternate route from 1-50...but unless you actually play real content, you can only get so far...this means that it will make AE less of an asset to farmers since they will have to actually play every once and a while. Also, it is better for new players...AE is not good for new players, so pushing them to the real meat of the game is good. Another important thing is that it promotes normal mission teams...another plus.
I am very curious to see if anyone can actually find any bad in this idea...so please, try and rip this apart, but be civil