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This part bothered me in the article;
"Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules."
Are you telling me that a University professor, someone who's been studying games for 15 years, doesn't understand the difference between something that's not specifically illegal (and therefore permissible) and being a [censored]?
The players enter those zones in the hopes of doing battle with other players. Drone TPing is not "doing battle", for either party. It benefits no one (something not mentioned in the article, by the way... from all indications that's ALL this guy did... then the clueless reporter lauds his "skill" at defeating his enemies) in that it in no way rewarded Twixt and all it did was inconvenience the other players. As MMO players, that's called griefing in our own parlance.
Why is this guy so shocked? Has he never played a [censored] board game? Has he never dealt with other people? It doesn't matter what game you play, invariably there's something that you can do that's not illegal (and let's be clear... drone TPing isn't "legal" as in "we approve this as a valid method of PvPing", it's just not illegal, and there's a difference) but that serves not only to piss off the other players, but benefits no one whatsoever, even the griefer (unless you count the other player's anxiety and anger to be a "benefit", but anyone who does is considered by this poster to be a [censored] psychopath).
I'm so thoroughly unimpressed with this "professor". The only real scholar and professor I can think of that could behave like this and not get a surprised reaction from me based on his comments and reactions is Farnsworth. Or maybe Frink.
EDIT - ""If you aren't a member of the tribe, you get whacked with a stick," he said. "I look at social groups with dismay." "
Oh, for the love of soup...
"Oh, no... I'm so dismayed at this community... all I did was act like a total yambag and they didn't like me! I find it so disheartening that if you alienate every single person that you meet with behaviour they find reprehensible that they'll revile and ostracise you. Oh, woe is me... I'm so disappointed in humanity... 
"
While I think that the death threats and obvious lies told about him to defame and libel him are grossly innapropriate, if you're going to act like a smacktard, then expect people to drive you away. Can you guess why? Hmmm... ? Professor? Can you guess? Alright, I'll tell you... 'Cause people don't like smacktards.
I know... hard to believe. It's a shame that you have to live with the consequences of your behaviour, I know...
[censored]ing sociopath.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
I am acquainted with the Common Rule, and I don't think that Prof. Myers's final product was an exceptionally valuable piece of scholarship. However, I am still not convinced that an IRB would not have granted approval beforehand. Even where there are risks, they may be offset by the benefit of the research.
Naphil, 50 Peacebringer
Captain Darkspirit, 50 Warshade
Operative Acier, 50 Bane Spider
Durante Ragno, 50 Fortunata
et al.
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I am acquainted with the Common Rule, and I don't think that Prof. Myers's final product was an exceptionally valuable piece of scholarship. However, I am still not convinced that an IRB would not have granted approval beforehand. Even where there are risks, they may be offset by the benefit of the research.
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Pfftt... maybe. I don't know.
I said this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here. The man was a professor. What he did here was the equivalent of an electrical engineer with 15 years of experience sticking a fork into a live socket and then being surprised and "dismayed" at the consequences. At absolute best he's the worst scholar I've ever heard of (including the plagiarist Alan Dershowitz), at worst he's a [censored] idiot with pyschopathic tendencies.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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obvious lies told about him to defame and libel him are grossly innapropriate, if you're going to act like a smacktard, then expect people to drive you away.
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Depending on what you are referencing, some of it isn't made up.
I can't believe I actually read that tripe.
That simply cant be the work of a college level professor.
I must admit it also rankles that anyone would decide to deliberately grief an online community in order to "conduct an experiment".
His "experiment" absolutely did harm others enjoyment of the game which constitutes griefing.
Feel The Burn
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obvious lies told about him to defame and libel him are grossly innapropriate, if you're going to act like a smacktard, then expect people to drive you away.
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Depending on what you are referencing, some of it isn't made up.
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I'm talking about people who said nasty stuff about him, like that he was a convicted pedophile and all that stuff. I mean, I'm assuming it's not true.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
That isn't true afaik.
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Disclaimer: I'm not a PvPer... I still found this article intriguing.
Twixt
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What he is doing is not PVP.
He is tping the foe yes. But he never attacks them.
The only thing that actually does an attack in this is the drone.
The drone is an NPC.
An NPC is Envirnment. Hense, he is forcing someone into PVE when in a PVP zone.
Its just like if I was a lvl 50 hero in PI and I tp a lvl 1 hero into a mob of lvl 50s.
They should change the rules and make it known not to do that. Its rude, unjust, cowardly and honestly is wrong.
And I dont even PVP at all (well maybe once or twice a year for 30 minutes to an hour).
It's not PVP, its FORCED PvE.
-Sin
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I am acquainted with the Common Rule, and I don't think that Prof. Myers's final product was an exceptionally valuable piece of scholarship. However, I am still not convinced that an IRB would not have granted approval beforehand. Even where there are risks, they may be offset by the benefit of the research.
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I still say it doesn't meet the requirements for approval with the population stats, Informed consent requirment and the design. Also he is a communications professor i am not sure they would approve him to do a sociological experiment with human subjects. If i can find and IRB person I will ask heck maybe i will ask my regulatory law professor, he may know based on the legality issues..
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I am acquainted with the Common Rule, and I don't think that Prof. Myers's final product was an exceptionally valuable piece of scholarship. However, I am still not convinced that an IRB would not have granted approval beforehand. Even where there are risks, they may be offset by the benefit of the research.
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I still say it doesn't meet the requirements for approval with the population stats, Informed consent requirment and the design. Also he is a communications professor i am not sure they would approve him to do a sociological experiment with human subjects. If i can find and IRB person I will ask heck maybe i will ask my regulatory law professor, he may know based on the legality issues..
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You're forgetting that this is a video game and anyone with an IQ better than celery knows that you can quite easily sell it to an ethics board full of fogies who've never even played a game, let alone understand the realities of an online game. All Myers would have to do is say something like "This is a virtual environment, what's more it's a game" and just totally downplay any actual real world impact it might have. Not to mention, but he himself was surprised by the reaction he got. To me that means that if he talked to the Ethics board first then there's no way he would have said anything like "Well, they're gonna be super-[censored]-pissed when I do this, and it'll send some folks into rage spirals that will likely drive them to damage their surroundings, if not themselves." cause he himself wouldn't have believed it, and neither would a bunch of 60 year old professors.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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I'm simply playing Devil's Advocate on this issue.
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This is my shocked face.
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I sense sarcasm...
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I am acquainted with the Common Rule, and I don't think that Prof. Myers's final product was an exceptionally valuable piece of scholarship. However, I am still not convinced that an IRB would not have granted approval beforehand. Even where there are risks, they may be offset by the benefit of the research.
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But how much benefit is there to his research? It seems like all he proved is that when he acted like an [censored], people didn't like him. I didn't see anything new in his paper. Other academics have been writing about things like this for ages now and uncovered much more interesting social interactions in The Sims Online.
Like LHF, I'm wondering why he seemed surprised by the behaviors he observed. If he's really an anthropologist, why would this be at all surprising? Forget even being an anthropologist, I think the rest of us would have been able to explain this without doing any "research" and without any fancy credentials.
It doesn't matter if the person you're looking at is in the flesh or represented by pixels. If you treat people badly, you're not going to be making friends. Most of us learn that by the time we're 10.
I suspect this guy just enjoys jerking people's chains and being able to write about it and speak about it at a conference is just the cherry on top. I think I'll just write him off with the people who think "role playing" just means "free pass to be an [censored]."
"Hey, stop griefing me!"
"Back off, man! I'm an anthropologist!"
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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I am acquainted with the Common Rule, and I don't think that Prof. Myers's final product was an exceptionally valuable piece of scholarship. However, I am still not convinced that an IRB would not have granted approval beforehand. Even where there are risks, they may be offset by the benefit of the research.
[/ QUOTE ]
But how much benefit is there to his research? It seems like all he proved is that when he acted like an [censored], people didn't like him. I didn't see anything new in his paper. Other academics have been writing about things like this for ages now and uncovered much more interesting social interactions in The Sims Online.
Like LHF, I'm wondering why he seemed surprised by the behaviors he observed. If he's really an anthropologist, why would this be at all surprising? Forget even being an anthropologist, I think the rest of us would have been able to explain this without doing any "research" and without any fancy credentials.
It doesn't matter if the person you're looking at is in the flesh or represented by pixels. If you treat people badly, you're not going to be making friends. Most of us learn that by the time we're 10.
I suspect this guy just enjoys jerking people's chains and being able to write about it and speak about it at a conference is just the cherry on top. I think I'll just write him off with the people who think "role playing" just means "free pass to be an [censored]."
"Hey, stop griefing me!"
"Back off, man! I'm an anthropologist!"
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As I said, I don't think that there was much benefit. But I have the advantage of having seen the final product. An IRB would not have had that luxury before the research was done. Myers framed his study in terms of deviance, conflict theory, constructed dominant social rules, and the like. That's the kind of stuff that certain academics eat up.
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I still say it doesn't meet the requirements for approval with the population stats, Informed consent requirment and the design.
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As far as informed consent is concerned, 45 C.F.R. ยง 46.116 permits the requirement of informed consent for human subject research to be waived under certain circumstances (probably the provisions of subpart D in this case). This research may well fail the requirement that the risk to participants be minimal, but I don't know. I suppose that would depend on one's definition of "minimal risk" and whether you consider the research to "adversely affect . . . the welfare of the subjects."
Naphil, 50 Peacebringer
Captain Darkspirit, 50 Warshade
Operative Acier, 50 Bane Spider
Durante Ragno, 50 Fortunata
et al.
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It doesn't matter if the person you're looking at is in the flesh or represented by pixels. If you treat people badly, you're not going to be making friends. Most of us learn that by the time we're 10.
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Missy expresses it perfectly. People act like people in virtual worlds: shocker!
Thanks for the links, Philly, interesting reading.
I honestly think he may have picked the wrong game to analyze. CoH, more than any other MMO I've tried, is ALOT more community based. I've stayed in this game myself largely for the people here, more than for the game itself, altho the game is definitely fun.
It's alot easier to become "popular" or to become an "outcast" here due to the tight-knit community.
The alleged professor comes off as a poor-man's Stanley Milgram.
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I've been following both this thread and some of the others about this guy and I have to say he strikes me as the sorriest excuse for an academic I've seen in a long time. As someone who has studied sociology and finds it fascinating; Dr. Myers and his dubious methods combined with underwhelming conclusions and lazy, shoddy reporting of the whole affair leave me feeling like a sad panda.
A very sad panda.
So the professor acts like a Jerk Huh and he was Shock to notice people where mad at him?
Wtf man,of course people going to hate you in PVP,everyone is an AZZ in a PVP zone.Myers behaved in an anti-social way for Research,This whole article is about PVP and not PVE.PVP is all about Fighting and Waging War againest The other Fraction.In PVE people are Different and they show a kind of a Different Personelity form there pvp self and not everyone PVP.People are Friendly in PVE and always help you out and stuff.
Are there *** in game yes,but there always are in this world outside of this game and in it.But it seems this guy only thourght about pvp side of Coh and not pve.the Professor was NOT as innocent as he makes Himself out i mean come on,He was abusive to other players.For one thing he wanted people to hate him for a reason to write the Perfect article and i think he new people sometimes act like jerks in pvp and that why he focus on pvp and not pve.He wanted fame form his collage,the Students Respect and other professors.I think that it's not right showing half the truth about something just to get himself some notice.
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I'm simply playing Devil's Advocate on this issue.
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This is my shocked face.
@Arwen Darkblade
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