Where can I beat up Hardcase?

[ QUOTE ]

Also, Hardcase is a representative of the Anti-Villain type, he's protecting the innocent using underhanded means, so he won't want the totally random and dangerous violence going on at the end of Verandi's arc, since you started it you get to fix it. What do you expect from another villain, him to say "Pretty please? With a cherry on top?"

[/ QUOTE ]

As others have said, it's not the fact that he threatens you that I have a problem with. He wants to threaten me? Fine, let him.

It's the fact that your character's ONLY option to him threatening you is to basically whimper, tuck your tail between your legs and mumble, "Yessir, sorry sir, don't hurt me!" and scuttle off to do what he's ordering you to do.

THAT is what I have a problem with.

And quite frankly, that kind of massive railroad plot is FAR too prevalent in CoV. It's sloppy writing.

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The Mastermind Project
Leveling every primary/secondary to 50!
50: Bot/FF, Bot/Dark, Ninja/Trap, Merc/Pain, Necro/Dark, Thug/Dark
Works in Progress: Thug/TA, Merc/Poison, Thug/Pain, Ninja/Pain, Thug/Storm

I don't think they've ever changed dialogue in the game unless it's a major plot hole, though.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also, Hardcase is a representative of the Anti-Villain type, he's protecting the innocent using underhanded means, so he won't want the totally random and dangerous violence going on at the end of Verandi's arc, since you started it you get to fix it. What do you expect from another villain, him to say "Pretty please? With a cherry on top?"

[/ QUOTE ]

As others have said, it's not the fact that he threatens you that I have a problem with. He wants to threaten me? Fine, let him.

It's the fact that your character's ONLY option to him threatening you is to basically whimper, tuck your tail between your legs and mumble, "Yessir, sorry sir, don't hurt me!" and scuttle off to do what he's ordering you to do.

THAT is what I have a problem with.

And quite frankly, that kind of massive railroad plot is FAR too prevalent in CoV. It's sloppy writing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's done in plenty of places true, why should my villain who can suck the souls of others to make himself stronger, never die, and heal himself just by punching his enemies be worried that Wretch is gonna die at the hands of some Mu?

It's not so much as sloppy writing as it is there's no other option.. Like it or not, the status quo has to stay in a static world of an MMO.

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I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

[ QUOTE ]
Like it or not, the status quo has to stay in a static world of an MMO.

[/ QUOTE ]No, it's an issue of the game's engine not supporting branching plots. If the engine supported branching, then it would have only come down to an issue with the writing, which should be easy to over come (by, you know, not having the 'blow up the world' option that actually blows up the world).

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Like it or not, the status quo has to stay in a static world of an MMO.

[/ QUOTE ]No, it's an issue of the game's engine not supporting branching plots. If the engine supported branching, then it would have only come down to an issue with the writing, which should be easy to over come (by, you know, not having the 'blow up the world' option that actually blows up the world).

[/ QUOTE ]

Even branching plots are held in check with the status quo.

If I answer wrong to the Midnighter's question am I barred from joining them? Or do I just have to start the conversation again?

If the branching conversation was expanded and I continued to say things wrong, would I then be barred from entering Cimerora?

I'm not asking this to be a jerk, I'm asking this because it begs the question; if branching stories are made and they go deeper into options will it lock out one option to open another? Those types of choices aren't very favorable; look at how the locked in Patron Pools were considered by the playerbase, and even those were eventually changed to be respec'ed in and out of.

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I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

[ QUOTE ]
If I answer wrong to the Midnighter's question am I barred from joining them?

[/ QUOTE ]Branching plots doesn't mean every damn thing in the game has to have a few billion possible out comes.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not asking this to be a jerk, I'm asking this because it begs the question; if branching stories are made and they go deeper into options will it lock out one option to open another? Those types of choices aren't very favorable; look at how the locked in Patron Pools were considered by the playerbase, and even those were eventually changed to be respec'ed in and out of.

[/ QUOTE ]
Patrons had a LOAD of issues, most of which unrelated to the story (most people I've talked to said they LIKED the actual arc). The majority of villain players finding the PPPs to be far inferior to that of the APPS, the information about the PPPs being given in a vacuum (real numbers for just the PPPs is useless, as you have no baseline to understand what they mean), and the homogeny were huge issues, all unrelated to the story, but the implementation.

People seem to think 'branching' = 'you can do anything and everything'. There's still the writer deciding what you can and can't do, this isn't rocket science... many games have ALREADY done the whole branching storyline thing as well as being incredibly popular (hell, anybody remember Deus Ex?), having branching stories in an MMO world requires only a little bit extra effort in the creation of the stories... and don't forget, most of the story arcs in the game are completely independent of all the others (RWZ, faultline, and a few others are really the only exceptions).

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I answer wrong to the Midnighter's question am I barred from joining them?

[/ QUOTE ]Branching plots doesn't mean every damn thing in the game has to have a few billion possible out comes.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not asking this to be a jerk, I'm asking this because it begs the question; if branching stories are made and they go deeper into options will it lock out one option to open another? Those types of choices aren't very favorable; look at how the locked in Patron Pools were considered by the playerbase, and even those were eventually changed to be respec'ed in and out of.

[/ QUOTE ]
Patrons had a LOAD of issues, most of which unrelated to the story (most people I've talked to said they LIKED the actual arc). The majority of villain players finding the PPPs to be far inferior to that of the APPS, the information about the PPPs being given in a vacuum (real numbers for just the PPPs is useless, as you have no baseline to understand what they mean), and the homogeny were huge issues, all unrelated to the story, but the implementation.

People seem to think 'branching' = 'you can do anything and everything'. There's still the writer deciding what you can and can't do, this isn't rocket science... many games have ALREADY done the whole branching storyline thing as well as being incredibly popular (hell, anybody remember Deus Ex?), having branching stories in an MMO world requires only a little bit extra effort in the creation of the stories... and don't forget, most of the story arcs in the game are completely independent of all the others (RWZ, faultline, and a few others are really the only exceptions).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I remember Deus Ex. Even that game had the illusion of a branching plot. Remember when you found out UNATCO was corrupt? The choices then were "Join the NSF" or "Join the NSF", there wasn't an option to join Majestic 12; the choice was already made for you.

An actual branching plot happened in Deus Ex: Invisible War between the WTO and the Order Church, like when you were tasked to either capture the Mag Rail for WTO to study or kill the scientist to send a message from the Order. Taking one branch meant the closing of the other with no option in between. I couldn't take the prototype and kill the scientist with it, which is what I wanted to do when I first played the game. Kinda irked me that a weapon that can shoot through walls can't shoot through the wall the scientist was hiding behind.

And that's what I'm talking about and why I'm using the Midnighter Club as an example; since it's the first prototype of 'Branching' in CoH. If that was expanded, would the wrong answer bar you from entry to the Midnighters? Right now it doesn't do anything; answer wrong and he just says "Ok, bye.", and you have to click on him again to answer right; it's one step above "I like swords." "Welcome to Corneria." "I like swords." "Welcome to Corneria." "I like swords." "Welcome to Corneria."

If we're going to have branching it'd have to be more than what the Midnighter code is, since that doesn't do anything, and if you're going to have branching it won't mean anything if it doesn't block off the previous branch.

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I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

[ QUOTE ]

And quite frankly, that kind of massive railroad plot is FAR too prevalent in CoV. It's sloppy writing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I simply shake my head and lol at people that claim villain side content is better. I don't care if I have to walk across three zones in CoH, at least I get to be a real hero (instead of a fake villain) and the contacts extend me some frikken courtesy!

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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

I'd be a little less upset at Hardcase if you actually did get to go back in a later mission and clean his clock. I mean, I could accept the idea he's the bigger dog at level 35, so you have to just smile and ask for seconds. That's pretty much the story of City of Villains; you're everyone's peon up until you finally prove yourself equal to the baddest guy on the island, and from then on you call the shots yourself.

As obnoxious and condescending as Hardcase can be, it would still be nice to get some petty closure from him. Beating him up in a mission is what everyone wants, but even just verbally cowing him would suffice.

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Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball

I would PAY in order to play an MA arc where you:

A: Beat the ever-loving crap out of Hardcase.

B: "Escourt" the kidnapped Hardcase to your base of operations.

C: Beat the everloving crap out of him again.

D: "Escourt" the kidnapped Hardcase to King's Row, far beyond the help of his contacts in St. Martial, and kindly "donate" him, still alive, to some Vahzilok Mortificators. Pay them to keep him alive as long as possible while performing their oh-so-careful-and-precise administrations.

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I want to make a game with a real branching plot someday. And by that I mean you can play the game twice or more and experience a completely different story with different characters, areas and events.

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[ QUOTE ]
since it's the first prototype of 'Branching' in CoH

[/ QUOTE ]That wasn't branching in the slightest, that was just a few renamed 'leave' options. It didn't branch.

I don't see what your point is, that they shouldn't do it suckily?

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The prototype for "branching" in CoH has been there for a long time, it's called "be introduced to a new contact." Each option takes your character on a different path, story-wise.

The difference is that 1: each option starts you off on a completely different story arc, instead of giving you different options to resolve a story arc you're already in, and 2: choosing option A doesn't prevent you from pursuing option B in the future.

The patrons were an example of poor design because the choice you made permanently impacted your character's powers, rather than just the storyline. The way it works now, where you choose your patron for story reasons but can choose any power pool, is just fine. Of course the fact that you have to finish an arc before you can get an APP is still annoying.

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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
since it's the first prototype of 'Branching' in CoH

[/ QUOTE ]That wasn't branching in the slightest, that was just a few renamed 'leave' options. It didn't branch.

I don't see what your point is, that they shouldn't do it suckily?

[/ QUOTE ]

We know it's not branching; but that's how it was described to us by the Devs when it was first introduced. Much like how the Enforcer Thugs MM Pets were the prototype for trenchcoats, Cimerora soldiers were the prototype for our Shield powersets and Arachnos Soldier's Crab Spider AT is the prototype for player backpacks.

And, yes, that is my point. I thought that was obvious.

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I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

I always fel tthe easy solution for Verandi's arc is to switch it from Hardcase to Ice Mistral. She is definitely more connected than your villain is at that point and she's a total brat anyways, so it wouldn't be out of character for her to yell at and threaten your villain (as for why she would care about the fate of St. Martial, you could say she is acting on Scirocco's orders.)

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[ QUOTE ]
I always fel tthe easy solution for Verandi's arc is to switch it from Hardcase to Ice Mistral. She is definitely more connected than your villain is at that point and she's a total brat anyways, so it wouldn't be out of character for her to yell at and threaten your villain (as for why she would care about the fate of St. Martial, you could say she is acting on Scirocco's orders.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that makes sense.

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