OK, so now that I'm back, is it true I'm useless?
By
Black_Marrow,
Posted on: 2009-06-29 23:44 in Virtue
With proper skill any tank can tank in the ITF. Scrappers of invul/regen could probably tank.
I was able to tank Rom on my DB/SR stalker (though hits that broke through sucked big ones 
)
There are probably preferred classes to run with limited errors sustained. But that's purely preference. If you can play a class well and don't intend to mess around, it'll work. A full group of Doms used to be able to own that TF before they took the nerf on Fulcrum Shift. Try it out, get experience to realize what you're up against, and focus on beating it. Don't expect to win right off the bat but don't assume failure... not all the time anyways.
I've tanked Rom on a freaking Crab Spider (with appropriate backup of course), so I think you should do fine with your inv/SS tanker.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Oh, I didn't have an issue with the ITF, I've done that one as well the Lady Gray TF easily. But I'm talking the STATESMAN TF here, not TF, I appreciate the words of support, but my issue is not even being given the chance to try.
Again, it's a matter of how much you know about it, how well you play whatever class your on, and how the rest of your team operates. Everybody who does their job right, will get higher success rates than a PUG full of first timers.
Your truly not useless I've tanked STF with my invuln on more then one occasion, it takes work and practice, but you can totally do it, remember it's not just the tank that makes it work it's the people aiding in the TF, the damage doers and the support toons, with a good enough support team you can tank anything, well maybe not Hami.....
The biggest Green Lantern fanboy on the Forums
Not true. Any tanker can tank an STF, although some sets require more support and/or preparation than others. As long as you are level 50 and adequately-built/slotted with support from the team, you can do it.
In fact, invulnerability probably ranks only behind stone in survivability on the last mission, in my opinion.
There are some reasons why you might have been turned down, though.
1. Inexperience. Recluse is a special-case archvillain who can one-shot an unprepared tanker. People may have gotten nervous.
2. Master runs. A lot of STF runs are master runs, which require no deaths. Inv can perform well on MoSTFs, but some people are afraid to do it without a stone tanker.
3. Your playstyle/reputation. Do you play, or at least have a reputation of playing a scranker? Are you known for charging ahead recklessly and faceplanting or leaving the team behind? Did you skip any major powers, like unyielding or invincibility? Good players can make just about anything work, but some people can be quick to judge.
4. You've been running into the wrong people.
I'm open to an STF some time this week though, if you want.
I18 Hamidon raiding guide
A well built invulnerability tanker can indeed tank the STF, particularly provided he has some influence to throw around. I've seen willpower succeed too.
Even poor, defence-based Ice tanks can manage if they're very good and very well supported.
But on a pick-up-group its easy to see why someone would favour Stone tanks, since its easiest to do it wiht them out of the box, as it were - without a particularly good (or expensive build), or a partiuclalry good player. In other words, there is a higher probability that a random stone tanker you've never met before will make the grade than a random tanker of any other set. That doesn't necesarilly mean Stone is catagorically superior (although its hard to deny that their ability to stand in one place and withstand punishment IS the best in the game), but they are more idiot-proof.
Oh, also, as omeone noted abov,e some poeple like to play tanks who really dont quite live up to the class - they skip some feature like their tier-9 defence, or the actual taunt power, which, while not required for blazing through paper missions, or even hunting down random Praetorian archvillains, is of far more importance in the much more difficult STF. People who want to play high soloable tanks with more damage in exchange for less rediculous levles of defence, generally play other sets though (including Inv). If someone builds a stone tank, it is almost always becase they intend to build the meat-shield - they guy who has no funciton but to take absolutely anything you can throw at him up and including a bloody deaht-star laser without breaking a sweat. Thus, once again, if you don't know the character before-hand you ahve a higher probability of getting someone who can stand up to Recluse with a stone tank. NO offense to people who play Scrankers - being a tank would bore me to tears too. Its simply that the STF, being specificly designed as the single most difficult thing in the game to do, is one of the few places where the ussually superfluous levels of uber-survivability that a "hardcore" tank can manage are actually required, or at least extremely useful.
Edit: all that said, if you think you've got what it takes, as it were, drop me a line someitme. MY most recent character still doesn't have her MoSTF badge and I keep meaning to put together a run.
Nope. Took a friend on a STF run that was her first, and she was our sole tank as an inv/SS. It was the quickest and most painless run I've ever been on.
The three defenders may have had a lot to do with that.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Stone tankers are a crutch - while powerful, they're often exaggerated in their necessity. Aaand they pay for that brutally in the damage/recharge department.
Invulnerability is still a good set. Anyone that whines that they need a specific powerset or AT to do anything in this game is a gimp.
Some things make stuff go a bit smoother, but I'll be damned if it's necessary. Only necessary thing is at least half a brain, or I wouldn't do half as well as I do!
For the record, that means I have three-quarters of a brain. :3
Nox I run the weekly Master Saturday runs. That being the Master of the Statesman TF badge runs, no deaths or temp powers. I will tell you any tank can do the STF and they can even do it without a single death to themselves or their team. If you want to run a regular STF any time send me a tell ill gladly form a team or just come along with one of my Pirates. There is nothing in this game someone who is determined to do cant do. They just need the help of people who are willing.
Good Luck on your STF if Im not on it its lots of fun.
Virtue
--Blazing Tiger-- 50 Invulrn/Fire Tank
<<Virtues Tankiest Kitty>>
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@Blazing Tiger and @Aqua Fox
On my 2nd acct I have a Inv/SS tanker, Beeg Beefee Boi, who has tanked for the ITF so many times and only had one bad run due to idiocy by a few immature players at the last fight..grrr.. 
But anyway, Inv/SS can do it. I found adding tough and weave to my build helped a lot also.
And, you might want to go check out the Tanker threads. There are several posts there for Inv/SS and the ITF.
Hope that helps. 
Oops!! Sorry! You meant the STF..yeah Id say tweak your build a bit, like add the fighting pool, if needed. and again, check out the Tanker threads. Always solid advice there.
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Oh, I didn't have an issue with the ITF, I've done that one as well the Lady Gray TF easily. But I'm talking the STATESMAN TF here, not TF, I appreciate the words of support, but my issue is not even being given the chance to try.
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Dude, we use Inv. tankers all the time for STF. It is quite rare for us to find a stone tanker to use for it. I tank the STF on my Will Power tanker but he has a pretty expensive build. if someone is denying you access to the team due to you being a Inv. Tanker it is probably not worth your trouble to join that team anyways.
You know my global, hit me up if you want to get a STF going.
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Stone tankers are a crutch
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This is so true and its sad.
Virtue
--Blazing Tiger-- 50 Invulrn/Fire Tank
<<Virtues Tankiest Kitty>>
Try my Arcs: #4892 and #112548
@Blazing Tiger and @Aqua Fox
All I know is the one time I was able to sucessfully complete the STF it was with an Invlun Tank.
Unfortunately many people do look for a crutch because the STF is difficult, I have seen many people I know swear off the STF cause they try different combinations of ATs and powers and can't complete it.
I am convinced though that the STF is still more doable than the LRSF ( I will beat it one day).
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In the past month and a half of trying, I've been repeatedly told that there is no point in my Inv/SS tanker trying to tank the Statesman TF, that ONLY stone tanks can do this. Now, this isn't a month and a half of trying the TF and not succeeding, this is a month and a half of not even being allowed to try because I'm not a Stone Tank.
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Invul/ has tanked STF.
There have been all defender STF
There are build/AT choices that make it smoother, and less risk, but anyone who says that its a 'must' is... well, they are wrong.
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Again and my last contribution, if you know what you're doing and you do it; you wont do anything wrong and it only proves more when it works. If you're good at it and the rest of the team are good at what they do, which they should be, things will run smoother.
Just, ya'know, blame the other guys when things don't go according to plan.
In all seriousness that's how I think when I'm on a scrapper or stalker at least. I don't in any way yell at or chastise support classes knowing full well that they shouldn't be focusing on keeping me alive anyways. Therefore, I hold my own and I contribute to the team to the best of my abilities. If other players aren't doing that, then it's really not your fault if you run the tank under invul/x.
been on mant teams the got the moSTF badge with an invuln, Depends on the builds and the STF is a team effort.
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Is this a fluke, and I'm only getting input from people who think that for some reason Stone is the only "true" tank, or are they right, and the character I made now obsolete as far as the reason he was created in the first place, to tank?
[/ QUOTE ]You're teaming with retards. Quit the team and form your own.
Okay, NO. You do NOT need "only a stone tank".
Pretty much any decently survivable melee character that is able to grab and pull aggro on Recluse can "tank" the STF.
Heck, on my MOSTF run, I wasn't even "main tank". I was off scranking. Our "main" was a fire tanker with massive buffs and a decent build. Heck, even as off-tank, my S/L defense was sitting between 70 and 90% most of the time.
Whoever's told you that there's no point in Inv/SS tanking STF is clueless.
Now the caveat, it REALLY depends on how he's built. If you're talking SOs or Generic IOs, yeah. You may be in a position where your defense numbers against Recluse solo (and unbuffed) aren't sufficient to keep him from doing a "You're food, I'm a Ginsu knife" routine on you. Even a Stoner will have this problem if they're not built properly for defense.
Also, as Inv/ your defense numbers jump around dramatically even in crowds. So you could be getting nailed during a time when your defense number yo-yos downward, leaving you vulnerable.
If you're hell-bent on tanking LR, you may want to invest a bit of time on Mid's, acquire yourself some defense-boosting IO sets, and burn a respec (my "capped" build is about two IOs short at the moment). But, if I run on a team similar to my MOSTF run, I'd feel fairly confident in belch-blasting LR with a defender in my pocket.
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I've seen some really crazy stuff happen in this game, across time. As someone or someones have already stated, you most likely have gotten bad advice.
The only thing I can really add here is, there are no gimped AT's, just the inept people behind them.
This kinda reminds me of something that happened last night, I was playing my capped /Ninjitsu stalker last night, on a full team. The Stone Brute went down, then everyone else did. I was the sole standing player in a sea of mad-as-hell freakshow. I dilligently used all my tools available and whupped every last one of them. It was hairy, but I stood strong! I always thought I was a decent player
The chorus of "Wow", "Holy Craps", and "I'm rolling a /Nin" were loud. It's all about the person driving the car, and not what is under the hood! 
Oh and honestly some of the worst tanks I have ever played with are stone tanks, but I have also run with some great stone tanks, but for the most part the horrible ones outnumber them 3 to 1, wait that applies to all AT's and powersets.......
The biggest Green Lantern fanboy on the Forums
I have seen inv tanks do just fine on the STF. They need a little more support in the end fight with Recluse. But really any well built tank with decent support can pull it off.
Heroes : Angrem (50 Stone tank), Exo Inferis (50 Fire blaster), Exo Proteus (50 ill/emp), IceVengance (50 cold defender)
Villains : AtomBomb (50 Rad/Kin corruptor), Aleks (50 SS/Inv brute), StoneLethal (50 EM/Stone brute), Davroz (50 Bots/Dark mastermind)
I have only completed the STF once and that was with a inv tank as main tank. Two real life friends of mine had joined a pug STF which was whining about the tank and so my friends asked me to bring my emp defender. I joined the team and was given a whole bunch of doom predictions about how I would need to be at the top of my game to keep the tank alive against recluse. I spent most of the time just blasting as the tank was perfectly fine without me.
Unfortunately the only STF runs I see being advertised are the PUG MOSTF runs, they seem to attract the "SRS BSNS" crowd, for me the game should be about fun so I have never had the urge to join a MOSTF run.
....Ok. Flea can tank Reichsman.
Stone can eat it.
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I've been playing CoX since Dec. 2004 in an on again/off again manner, the one thing that always made me feel I could come back was that unlike most games, all aspects of the game evolved and changed, not just the "endgame", and there never was the hidebound mentality of "You need X and only X to do Y, and nothing else will succeed." Apparently that has changed as well.
In the past month and a half of trying, I've been repeatedly told that there is no point in my Inv/SS tanker trying to tank the Statesman TF, that ONLY stone tanks can do this. Now, this isn't a month and a half of trying the TF and not succeeding, this is a month and a half of not even being allowed to try because I'm not a Stone Tank.
If this was an alt, I wouldn't care, but this is the character who was my first character, not just in CoX, but the first MMO character I have ever played. He's the one I play best, who I have spent 90% of my time and inf on, and the one I love to play and has had most of my creative energy expended on.
So I need to know:
Is this a fluke, and I'm only getting input from people who think that for some reason Stone is the only "true" tank, or are they right, and the character I made now obsolete as far as the reason he was created in the first place, to tank?