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This is not helpful without saying what level your talking about, what power sets, etc. For instance pre level 20 ya your probably hurting on end a bit. But post stamina what are you running toggles like leadership pools? Cause i got about 8 dominators at different level ranges, none of them are suffering the problems your talking about, so without further information, ya i will assume its you and not the archtype. Cause with a full bar of end, i dont know of any combo of attacks from any of the dominator sets that would extingush an entire bar of end.
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I never had this problem before today, so I am equally as flabbergasted.
The only one of my four doms I tried before work today is a level 38 Mind/Ice dom. Now I know /ice is an END heavy set, but before I-15 I would be fine without needing any blues most of the time, maybe one in a protracted boss fight and then only if I was popping hasten and power boost.
But today? Crey Power Tank in Brickstown took three large blues to bring down AFTER domination popped. That never happened before.
Now granted, I haven't been able to slot BIB for end yet as it still has just the one slot and I put an Acc SO in there for now, so that's sucking alot of wind when I use it (and it always has... I'm very close to 39 now) but it seemed like all my attacks were sucking wind today and I was eating blues like candy.
My only toggles are Chilling Embrace and Hover. Pre I-15, I have been running both all the time without issue. No way could I run Chilling Embrace anymore nor hasten if I planned to attack at all. I just can't afford the /end anymore. I'm going to need to seriously overhaul my slotting.
So in that vein, I hope I don't need to dial my CL down below 4 to deal with end issues in the interim until I can get all the IOs I'll need. I hate playing on anything but CL 4 or 5.
Also, there seems to be some confusion here. I wasn't exactly fishing for advice. I was more responding to the post where someone said "You obviously have not been reading what most of us were complaining about... it was the higher endurance and slower recharge in most of our secondaries that we feel nerfed us." with my own complaint about end costs. I already KNOW what I need to do to fix it (get +end and +recovery via IO sets and drop some extra end redux enhancements into the powers and pack alot of Blues). I was just jumping on the complaining train. That character is sucking wind now and never did before. If you believe it or not doesn't matter, that was the experience I had logging in today and somehow in the previous 38 levels I've gone through with that character, I never had this problem until today. But obviously it's not the changes to the powerset powerset, it's ME 
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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[QR]
Socket end redux. In your attacks. Most brutes can work it out, c'mon.
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Thanks, but I already had end redux in the attacks.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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EvilRyu,
So you and your ilk spend years telling everyone how gimp and useless doms are, trashing their reputation over and over again, and now you want those of us who've enjoyed the AT that whole time, as well as who've led by example, to help noob doms how to play just because you asked?
Your audacity borders on lewdness.
Please buff Ice Control.
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I never had this problem before today, so I am equally as flabbergasted.
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Okay, Mind/Icy. Now I think I see a flaw in your argument - you should be seeing almost no difference at all. The only one of /Icy's powers that was changed was ICW, which I doubt was key to fighting a lone boss. And Mind wasn't changed at all. Aside from having your base damage mods increased (which would put you on equal with the old domination buff more frequently), there were no changes to the set that should have any effect in this scenario.
Under the circumstances you outlined, there should be no mechanical drop-off at all. None of the powers you would be using were changed, and the AT changes themselves under the circumstances you outline should be only beneficial to you (since I expect at 38 you're nowhere near multi-stacking domination). Obviously, the issue lies either in a completely different source, not the recent changes to the dom AT.
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I never had this problem before today, so I am equally as flabbergasted.
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Okay, Mind/Icy. Now I think I see a flaw in your argument - you should be seeing almost no difference at all.
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The flaw in my argument? It's not an argument. It's my EXPERIENCE. It's not open to debate.
I'm NOT seeing no difference at all. I played this character on Saturday without these issues. So what happened? Why was it fine saturday and sucking wind today?
And before you decide it's just subjective, I came in today expecting great things. I definitely expected it to be easier and faster to kill things (which it was for yellow/orange critters) only to find boss fights drained me down before I could get the boss to die. The LAST thing I expected was to start running out of breath in the middle of a fight.
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Obviously, the issue lies either in a completely different source, not the recent changes to the dom AT.
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Well, I am not sure what different source other than the new issue could be effecting things in just a couple of days, but I'm open to that idea. All I can tell you is I played today the same way I played saturday... so why do I suddenly need three Breathers to down one red crey power tank?
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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The flaw in my argument? It's not an argument. It's my EXPERIENCE. It's not open to debate.
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I'm not debating your experience. I'm debating your conclusions. Given the evidence available, there is zero reason why the dominator AT changes should have affected your results. Use it as a scapegoat if you want, but you're playing in the situation quite literally least effected by the changes. Your results to previous similar situations should have been reasonably identical.
We see this every freaking issue. You've been around as long as I have, you know that. How many times the day an issue lands somebody shows up and insists that accuracy has been nerfed? There are threads talking about nerfs to Super Strength and Shield Charge, neither of which has been mentioned at ALL in any patch note. You're attributing a difference in your play results to changes that, for all visible evidence, have no relation with what you are doing.
What the cause is, I don't know. It's your experience, not mine. But blaming the dom changes is folly - in your case, there were no changes. Unless you've found alterations to the powers in /Icy that are not listed in the patch notes, they are NOT the cause of your problem.
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EvilRyu,
So you and your ilk spend years telling everyone how gimp and useless doms are, trashing their reputation over and over again, and now you want those of us who've enjoyed the AT that whole time, as well as who've led by example, to help noob doms how to play just because you asked?
Your audacity borders on lewdness.
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^^ this.... 150%.
You said it more nicely than I,DC. Thank you.
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This is not helpful without saying what level your talking about, what power sets, etc. For instance pre level 20 ya your probably hurting on end a bit. But post stamina what are you running toggles like leadership pools? Cause i got about 8 dominators at different level ranges, none of them are suffering the problems your talking about, so without further information, ya i will assume its you and not the archtype. Cause with a full bar of end, i dont know of any combo of attacks from any of the dominator sets that would extingush an entire bar of end.
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I never had this problem before today, so I am equally as flabbergasted.
The only one of my four doms I tried before work today is a level 38 Mind/Ice dom. Now I know /ice is an END heavy set, but before I-15 I would be fine without needing any blues most of the time, maybe one in a protracted boss fight and then only if I was popping hasten and power boost.
But today? Crey Power Tank in Brickstown
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Brickstown doesn't exist in Cov unless you are referring to a mayhem mission.
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QR
Good advice Evil Ryu.
It very clearly is a buff (on my 50s of GRav/NRG and Fire/Fire but also my lowbie Earth/Thorns.) That some people still aren't satisfied, even after Castle reinstated the low-damage puffball Tier 1 attacks so that you can feel busy even if you aren't really doing anything, shows that you just can't please everyone.
Do people REALLY want to spend a little less end at the cost of taking one-and-a-half times as long to kill something (as some of the recent complaints seem to indicate)? Weird...
I think the changes were pretty well balanced and reasoned out and an honest attempt to make almost everyone happy.
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Running out of endurance frequently is a serious PITA and imo unacceptable once you start to mature your build.
Short of nearly faceplanting every spawn, being an end pig is probably one of the biggest turnoffs a toon can have.
Fortunately, doms have domination and powersink. Mine need both.
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Socket end redux. In your attacks. Most brutes can work it out, c'mon.
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This.
but you also need recharge slotted now that they have longer base rech. Can't forget acc and dam slotting too.
IO's aren't required, but they are pretty dang close to being necessary on doms.
It's a bit easier on brutes, they pull about 29 DPE with fury and dam slotting whereas doms sit around 20 DPE. Dominator "controls" also plow through end waaaay faster than brute armors.
Fury allows for such solid DPE that many brutes barely even slot for damage enhancement until well into the game. While a brute is capable of dedicating 3 slots to end reduction if they so choose without gimping their damage it would seem a dom only has ONE slot to spare (1acc, 3dam, 1rech, 1end).
Neither myself nor my friends believed Dominators to be weak or suffering before i15, but then most of their experiences have been on teams. Only myself and one other solo quite a bit on our Doms and our opnions were that they were fine, but we weren't exactly new players so leveling for us in the early levels wan't any more painful to us then having to level any other lowbie Alts.
Today I came on to respec my Fire/Psi farmer and play through the changes. Due to time contraints I was only able to try the initial changes on Test and nit any subsequent patches so today was the first real go at it. I oringinally had Assault and Tactics running along with Hot Feet and Charged Armor. I got rid of the Leadership pool since I knew End was going to be an issue, and picked up an extra Psi attack and Ball Lightning . I took Ball Lightning now because I knew Psi Shockwave wasn't going to Recharge as quickly, which back then was the only AoE I really needed, so now it could fill in. I went to farm the Cim wall.
The goig was slower, not too bad but definitly slower then I'm used to. I can accept that since again i was aware of the changes. What I wasn't a fan of is the End burn as well as the slower overall feel. I have Stamina (granted only 1 slotted), Drain Psyche, Power Sink and Permadom and before only if I got ridiculous would i suck on End. Now I have to activly watch it. Not a big issue for this one character, he's slotted up well, but if i got all this and I'm seeing signs of end issues, I can only imagine what a non optimum build must experience. For that i will run my lv 25 Earth/Fire Dom this week and see.
Counseling newbies to not see these changes as a nerf? I don't know, I'm not saying one way or another that it is or not, but I can't quite field questions about it when i don't fully support thiese specific changes. I liked my Doms before, I didn't find it hard leveling early on pre i15. I could get behind the Domination change itself but it just seems like one old problem is replaced with a new one. Maybe it took longer to beat enemies before at low levels but I had End and attacks to spare, now I wipe enemies away faster but have to wait on the sidelines to recover a bit or make sure to have plenty of Blues on hand. Feels almost like the same to me.
But again, i haven't given it a thorough lowbie run through as of yet. Just I didn't have problems before with my lowbies, and now I feel sluggish with a favored Alt of mine. So just what the he'll am I supposed to counsel to newbies then?
Am I the only on who finds it silly that the only AT in the game with an inherent "fill endurance bar 100%" button... has players who have to complain about end usage?
I can't even count the number of times I've looked to press my domination button for endurance while playing other ATs.
The game has changed just slightly for doms, and for the better. Minor adjustments may be needed for some builds and moderate ones for some playstlyes perhaps, but with the damage boost I think there is great chance these adjustments will be dealt with just fine. Domination's usage is now determined by ones need for +End, +Mag, mez protection, or all of the above (perma) where before the +Damage was probably its top benefit. Moving a couple slots around or even respec'ing to make the most out of this may be frustrating as always but will prove to be a better overall dom experience... to new doms and those who aren't currently satisfied yet.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Uhh Dahjee, if you noticed what I was saying you'd realize that this 'silly' complainer of end usuage was talking about a Build that was slotted with End Reduction Sets and Bonus's, has Drain Psyche, Power Sink, and Stamina (granted only 1 Slot in it) and Permadom and was still noticing an End bite. Not to mention I slowed down on my AoE attacks and Holds just to mitigate it. It was because od Domination that I didn't burn out.
Yes I know Fire/- is an End intensive primary, but still i think i did just as you say and built a bit more carefully and played a bit differently and still felt the End cost be just a bit excessive. So please before you insult me and others by calling us 'silly' listen to what's being said. Your right, other ATs don't have an End giving click but that's supposed to be a bonus, not a factor to justify penalizing other powers to the point it negates the original benifit.
Sorry to offend... I didn't think I came across as calling the "complainers" silly... just the fact that its a complaint, as it is with many and most ATs about end heaviness and "feeling the End Bite" with certain builds... only we doms were given a tool to deal with such problems.
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It was because od Domination that I didn't burn out.
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See. It works.
If I understood things correctly, Doms weren't penalized with higher end cost, they were simply adjusted using the same Damage vs END vs Rech tables that all powers deal with. Give and Take...
btw you posted while I was typing so I read your post after submitting mine. I wasn't referring to YOU or your build in my post... based on what you've said about your build you don't have end problems to complain about... all you've really experienced is more end usage on an already end heavy build. Sucks I know but it's not the AT's fault... You've got more ways to deal with end than my Doms (Stamina) and mine are doing just fine.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Ok true, we both have a lot of End mitigation and the fact I didn't burn out while carefully using my AoE because of the Domination click helps but I'm saying that as an experienced player who slotted themselves out well, pickedthe right powers and used them all at a correct time and ratio was veteran of me, but ths change wasn't made for me but rather other newer players to attract a greater audience. So I'm saying all my advantages and I felt a bite. I figure even with my Hasten and +Rech as a detraction to End gain, all my plus's would handle that.
The other ATs that have End issues such as Brutes, Scraps and Tanks have just as many tools for End recovery but their also tougher so thy have the option to slow attacks. Comparing a Dominator to a Blaster is better but those guys have even greater damage, just that little bit more to finish off the enemies that we as Dominators would need that extra lil attack to equal. Mez help of course but that's more End.
I will say though again, I haven't played these changes on a lowbie yet, i will. It just suprised me that I was having to monitor a character that I built for +Endurance and +Recovery, took all the powers that helped End, and slotted 1 End Reduction in almost each power to now need to rely on Domination to handle End issues. So that's where my amusement is stemming from. Before I needed Permadom to get the Damage, but now I have the Damage but need it to keep my End, as well as still needing +Recharge to keep my Drain Psyche and Power Sink coming up. This might just be effecting high level play is all, but since I worked for the goal of getting to 50 and enjoy playing at that state it just seems a bit strange is all.
Hey, if it helps people enjoy the AT more, more power to folks. As i said for me it's not a nerf, but at high levels it doesn't seem like quite a buff either if my other higher Alts will require IO's to keep Blue'd.
I love the /Ice users complaining about end use when only the aoe on /ice was changed.
Myself?
Plant/psi, my aoe power at 50 is the same, now with good st attacks.
But I had to drop a ton of def to get there.
So I am squishier, but I am still quite fond of this toon.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
I'd suggest that if new doms need significant hand holding then the changes probably don't get the job done.
What I mean is that if the aoe immobs are a problem then the problem needs to be addressed rather than relying on experienced players to circumvent it.
But I'm convinced that some work needed to be performed on the primaries (other than mind) for it to be a successful revamp because many of the dominator issues stem from their control based powers.
It is fine to correct anyone spreading misinformation, I think that goes without saying for every aspect of the game.
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EvilRyu,
So you and your ilk spend years telling everyone how gimp and useless doms are, trashing their reputation over and over again, and now you want those of us who've enjoyed the AT that whole time, as well as who've led by example, to help noob doms how to play just because you asked?
Your audacity borders on lewdness.
[/ QUOTE ]
This
I feel... icky for agreeing with EvilRyu, for the reason exemplified by DarkCurrent. I mean, I agree that Doms were a tough AT to play, I won't deny that, it's just that ER doesn't just wander into hyperbole, he lives there.
It's nothing personal, it's just that it seriously weirds me out to see reasonable dialogue coming from him... But then, maybe people could say that of me too sometimes. 
All that is planned fails. All that is born dies.
All that is built crumbles. This will always be true.
But memories remain, And that is beautiful.
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I love the /Ice users complaining about end use when only the aoe on /ice was changed.
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This. Everyone is complaining about end use issues even if their endurance was never changed at all. Some had end changes but overall everyone that was no perma-dom had endurance efficiency boosts.
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I love the /Ice users complaining about end use when only the aoe on /ice was changed.
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This. Everyone is complaining about end use issues even if their endurance was never changed at all. Some had end changes but overall everyone that was no perma-dom had endurance efficiency boosts.
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It is self fulfilling prophecy. The idea that they have end issues has gotten out and now people expect to have end issues. And they do.
Just as we were told it is a damage buff and even at levels were that buff is virtually indistinguishable and often less powerful than if you had domination up; people expect their damage to be better. And it is.
I'm not sure why people doubt that perception means everything. Even when it runs counter to reality it still prevails.
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It is self fulfilling prophecy. The idea that they have end issues has gotten out and now people expect to have end issues. And they do.
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And of course, now that the rumor has gotten out that the increased End cost is to pay for the increased damage FOR ALL DOMINATORS, that's exactly what people see. Never mind that Energy Doms are clearly doing much more damage than the other Secondaries, all they see is "I've got more damage, it must be because Doms got more damage".
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It is self fulfilling prophecy. The idea that they have end issues has gotten out and now people expect to have end issues. And they do.
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And of course, now that the rumor has gotten out that the increased End cost is to pay for the increased damage FOR ALL DOMINATORS, that's exactly what people see. Never mind that Energy Doms are clearly doing much more damage than the other Secondaries, all they see is "I've got more damage, it must be because Doms got more damage".
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exactly. I think there was still a lot more tweaking that should have happened to the assault sets, but were burried under the overwhelmong "/eng is awesome" landslide.
All well, everthing is still very playable. My perma's don't feel nerfed and leveling so far seems to be less of a drag.
IMO the changes don't really do much, but maybe that is a good thing. I was fearing the worst from Castle from his past work, so to escape relatively unscathed is actually a pretty big win for me and my doms.
I sincerly hope a LOT of people start playing and sticking with doms, I'd hate for so much time/energy to have been spent for no real purpose.
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Never mind that Energy Doms are clearly doing much more damage than the other Secondaries
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... and then the six Doms fought more than one foe...
Seriously, Energy is only the king of single target damage, and not by much.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Ah, apologies, I should have probably said it's more than possible to stack it multiple times alone, through IO bonuses (recharge speed related). Admittedly it's unlikely to be cheap (depending on what kind of dominator you are) but it would definitely eliminate the need for a kin or AM, which was the initial claimed requirement.
That should be more than enough of an explanation, hence builds and examples are hopefully unnecessary.