Do you like tanker /ice?
By
Barata,
Posted on: 2009-06-23 17:42 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
It's a lot better since the buffs and has a lot more control and AOEs than SS even if it lacks the raw numbers.
I think it's a good set in both damage and mitigation, my biggest issue is the same issue I have with Energy Melee, I just don't like the idea of going until 28 (or in EM's case 35) with only 3 attacks.
No
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Nope. I can't see this one being a popular scrapper or brute import. Scrappers and brutes deal enough damage already with other sets that there isn't a real reason to fiddle around with Ice Melee. I mean, maybe is they crank up the magnitude on those mezzes to a degree that makes it worthwhile, it would be alright. Wouldn't be terribly popular, though, with all the more popular sets waiting to be transferred.
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/ice is completely awesome for tankers now. With frost and the new tier 9, it has great AOE. It also has great mitigation in ice patch and the hold.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
I like it fine for tankers. Great damage mitigation with the knockdown patch, a hold, noticeable slows, even a sleep. Lots of tools to help the tank keep the team alive. Decent AoE damage...eventually. Miserable single target damage. Can be worth it on a team-focused tank.
Would I like it on a scrapper or brute? Heck no. My job on a brute or scrapper isn't damage mitigation. It's damage.
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It's a lot better since the buffs and has a lot more control and AOEs than SS even if it lacks the raw numbers.
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Why did you single out SS? Because thats in my sig as my main? Just curious. I have like 40 characters I play regularily, and I tried ice like 4 times, twice since the buffage. How do you feel ice ranks vs other sets? How about ice vs, say, stone with fault and tremor, and gobs more ST dmg, as you mention mitigation and aoe?
My biggest beef is in line with what Psyonico posted about the powers layout. Frost might be improved, but dayam, that is a long haul for the next actual attack power, and the dmg output till you get there is sucktastic.
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I have a 50 stone/ice. He don't do much damage unless with a kin and FS, BUT my teams never die. Taunt, ice patch, ice shower= win.
oh man, I would roll an Ice/anything Stalker soo fast, my head would spin.
I would roll a Spines/Ice scrapper..... That would be UGLYYYYY!
BC 
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It's a lot better since the buffs and has a lot more control and AOEs than SS even if it lacks the raw numbers.
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Why did you single out SS? Because thats in my sig as my main? Just curious. I have like 40 characters I play regularily, and I tried ice like 4 times, twice since the buffage. How do you feel ice ranks vs other sets? How about ice vs, say, stone with fault and tremor, and gobs more ST dmg, as you mention mitigation and aoe?
My biggest beef is in line with what Psyonico posted about the powers layout. Frost might be improved, but dayam, that is a long haul for the next actual attack power, and the dmg output till you get there is sucktastic.
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Didn't even look at your sig, I just find Ice melee to be a weaker SS with more control. SS happens to be a favorite of mine (Rage, KO Blow, Foot Stomp) because I like high damage with some mitigation (not a fan of fire as it has none, for example, but my 50s there are Stone and WP) Stone Melee is good damage, good mitigation but retarded end cost. Ice is still a little weak offensively but for a pure meat shield build (not that I think such a build is necessary but w/e) it can be horribly effective. No, I haven't played on to 50 as it doesn't fit my playstyle of tanks as overpowered scrappers.
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oh man, I would roll an anything/Ice Stalker soo fast, Pendix's head would spin.
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oh man, I would roll an anything/Ice Stalker soo fast, Pendix's head would spin.
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On stalkers it wouldn't matter as:
AS=AS
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
I'm a really big fan of the dark melee/ice armour combo, I'm just really meh about making yet another tanker, and if it went to brutes I imagine I'd be appropriately bored.
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I want it on a scrapper/brute/stalker. 
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You don't want it on a brute.
It was originally planned to be one of the Brute secondaries. In testing though, it self-gimped itself. Since Brutes build up their fury bar when they're attacked, Ice's -recharge slowed down incoming attacks so much, the powerset literally self-gimped itself when compared to the other powersets. 
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I want it on a scrapper/brute/stalker.
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You don't want it on a brute.
It was originally planned to be one of the Brute secondaries.
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Ice melee as a brute secondary! Whoo! Sign me up. Twice the damage, twice the fun! Armors are for nerds.
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I want it on a scrapper/brute/stalker.
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You don't want it on a brute.
It was originally planned to be one of the Brute secondaries. In testing though, it self-gimped itself. Since Brutes build up their fury bar when they're attacked, Ice's -recharge slowed down incoming attacks so much, the powerset literally self-gimped itself when compared to the other powersets.
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I remember testing it on a brute and loving it. I don't know why they took it out, to be honest. They have dark/dark brutes, and that has as much control as ice does. In fact, I can only think of tin foil hat types of reasons for why it was excluded, so I'll just keep my mouth shut. >_>
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
Yes! I would play it on a Scrapper! Scrapper for one, have a higher base damage modifier.
I would likely love it.
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I'm somewhat torn on it, actually. On one hand, I like it, on the other I don't like running around with so few attacks at low levels, and the lack of Ice Sword Circle makes me envious of dominators. 
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I want it on a scrapper/brute/stalker.
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You don't want it on a brute.
It was originally planned to be one of the Brute secondaries. In testing though, it self-gimped itself. Since Brutes build up their fury bar when they're attacked, Ice's -recharge slowed down incoming attacks so much, the powerset literally self-gimped itself when compared to the other powersets.
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I remember testing it on a brute and loving it. I don't know why they took it out, to be honest. They have dark/dark brutes, and that has as much control as ice does. In fact, I can only think of tin foil hat types of reasons for why it was excluded, so I'll just keep my mouth shut. >_>
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ToHit Debuffs on the enemy (dark melee) didn't slow fury generation because the foes never have to hit you. Ice Melee would always slow the generation of fury down. Ice Armor, but more specifically Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace, is far more effective at mitigating attacks from all foes in melee range than Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom combined due mostly to magnitude limitations on the latter two powers.
I'm not saying they should have taken Ice Melee and Ice Armor out, but I do know why they did. I know people from beta (I was in it) who would have rolled up an Ice something brute regardless of the "fury problems" back then simply because they wanted Ice, but I'm sure you know how many people would complain about it today. We'd be inundated with thread upon thread comparing Ice Melee/Ice Armor fury generation compared to every other brute set combination in probably much the same way AR/Dev was compared to every other blaster combination.
However, the level of safety and "tankiness" that Ice/Ice would give sounds like a decent enough reason to bring it back, especially with how many players seem to view a Brute as a tank-like character.
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Ice Armor, but more specifically Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace, is far more effective at mitigating attacks from all foes in melee range than Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom combined due mostly to magnitude limitations on the latter two powers.
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Brute Cloak of Fear affects Lieutenants, by the way, so I am not sure what you mean by mentioning that and magnitude restrictions.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Ice Armor, but more specifically Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace, is far more effective at mitigating attacks from all foes in melee range than Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom combined due mostly to magnitude limitations on the latter two powers.
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Brute Cloak of Fear affects Lieutenants, by the way, so I am not sure what you mean by mentioning that and magnitude restrictions.
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Because Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace have no limitations.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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Ice Armor, but more specifically Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace, is far more effective at mitigating attacks from all foes in melee range than Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom combined due mostly to magnitude limitations on the latter two powers.
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Brute Cloak of Fear affects Lieutenants, by the way, so I am not sure what you mean by mentioning that and magnitude restrictions.
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Because Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace have no limitations.
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Chilling embrace max targets 10
Ice patch max targets 5
Oppresive gloom max targets 10
Cloak of fear max targets 10
I'm not seeing any significant mitigation difference here. In a typical spawn with 1 boss, Cloak of Fear and Oppresive Gloom are going to shut down just about everything. If they are combined with fears or stuns from a melee set, it will be even worse.
In short, I don't believe that an Ice/Ice brute would be any worse off than a Dark/Dark brute as far as significantly shutting down the ability of spawns to counterattack.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Ice Armor, but more specifically Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace, is far more effective at mitigating attacks from all foes in melee range than Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom combined due mostly to magnitude limitations on the latter two powers.
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Brute Cloak of Fear affects Lieutenants, by the way, so I am not sure what you mean by mentioning that and magnitude restrictions.
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Because Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace have no limitations.
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Chilling embrace max targets 10
Ice patch max targets 5
Oppresive gloom max targets 10
Cloak of fear max targets 10
I'm not seeing any significant mitigation difference here. In a typical spawn with 1 boss, Cloak of Fear and Oppresive Gloom are going to shut down just about everything. If they are combined with fears or stuns from a melee set, it will be even worse.
In short, I don't believe that an Ice/Ice brute would be any worse off than a Dark/Dark brute as far as significantly shutting down the ability of spawns to counterattack.
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Your addition of Dark Melee serves no purpose, by the way. Yes, yes, "but Touch of Fear!". Won't matter. That power is mostly spot control, so the existence of Dark Melee doesn't matter in your case.
Both Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom have to hit the target for their effects to work, and they both require significant slotting in order to get any kind of appreciable "defensiveness" out of them. In addition, Fear effects break temporarily when the target takes damage, usually resulting in a counter-attack from the target.
Ice Patch and Chilling Embrace require no real additional slotting, don't have to hit the target for their effects to work, and once foes are affected by Chilling Embrace, their ability to fire off attacks can drop so low as to trigger the FLEE! response mobs have.
With that said, I still think the sets should have stayed.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
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@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
Myself, I like it in concept, and I am pretty sure I would like it at high levels.
Pretty sure, because I cant get past lvl 15 or so before deleting in frustration because of the total lack of damage output. I look on my powers list, and see the frozen footstomp at the bottom, but its lvl 38 and I cant bring myself to grind that long for one power.
I bring this up because I was thinking about set proliferations and it occurred to me, "what if they ported /Ice to scrappers or brutes as is?" and I decided I wouldnt like that, even if frozen footstomp was lvl 32. the set is just too....mediocre, and thats being nice IMO.
So, what do you think? Would you like an ice/ scrapper as is? Or would you rather see some rework/buffage first?
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