Can we add in complaints against *melee-ers* who use KB?
They gather the spawn into a tight bunch and just as I'm about to use a powerful AoE against them, the melee-er uses their KB power and send them flying in all directions.
I can see them doing that if their defenses were weakening and they were in danger of dying, but even at full health, they'll use KB powers.
He, buddy, you're not soloing. Let the ATs with better crowd control mez and debuff the foes. You just start adding damage and keep taunting.
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WRT the use of KB tactically: My Dark Defender has Torrent, a KB cone (very high mag, too). I'll often target the back of a spawn, queue up Torrent and then TP behind the spawn. That will send that back-straggler and the spawn toward my teammates and bunch up the spawn a bit. Follow it up with Fearsome Stare and Tar Patch and Darkest Night and Tentacles. That's Dark tanking.
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Nobody said it's always easy. It's just having to use a different tactic instead of standing in the back of the pack setting off powers.
If people complain about the KB, try moving your position and/or changing your target to so it directs the KB in a different way. Try knocking the foes together, or toward the team, instead of apart or away from the team.
Otherwise.. there are many people who don't mind KB, and some who even favor it. Try another team..
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I have an Energy/Energy/Force Blaster at 50. I know how to play her, and to take advantage of knockbacks, and how to use them wisely. The problem, though, is that it can still be a hassle for me and my teammates no matter what the situation, which would be prevented if it was just knockDOWN and not knockBACK.
If you hit a group with an AoE, you know that the point is to keep them together, so to prevent scatter and nonsense, you hit them toward a wall. For one, there's not always a wall. There are plenty of outside maps. Two, even if you're only pushing them a short distance or into a better grouping, you may be throwing them outside of are effects like Freezing Rain. It may come to a point where you don't want to use your AoE attack because it would cause problems of that nature.
Even if you hit a whole group with an AoE, the knockback isn't 100%, so some aren't going to get thrown, which immediately causes scatter. Whether you shot them toward a wall or not. Hitting them with a second AoE may or may not throw the rest. I've made a point of quickly chaining Torrent to Explosive so that the second knockback only effects those who are still standing, and therefore throws more enemies in the same direction. But there are still times when the group ends up scattered. And, essentially, I'm intentionally wasting the secondary effect of my second attack.
Nova, however you use it, is going to scatter. Its secondary effect is massive knockback, and it's a PBAoE. It's true that usually you'll kill AT LEAST all the minions, but whatever's left is going to be scattered all over the place. Admittedly this one is the least of Energy's problems and it wouldn't make as much sense for it to be knockdown.
I find that the only time I can really relax and run in a team without worrying about annoying the team or frustrating myself (which will happen occasionally by accident no matter how much you're paying attention) is when I'm with a Controller. As long as enemies are immobilized, they won't get knocked back. Of course, this begs the question: why do I even have knockback at all if the best team-oriented scenario is to seek to eliminate it? Why, then, don't I just use Fire Blast?
Outside of Nova, if the other attacks were simply knockdown instead of knockback, it would be so much less of a hassle to deal with. People could still enhance for knockback if they actually wanted to keep knocking things back. Everybody wins.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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well crap. i wish we had the ability to turn off a power's secondary affect.
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You do. its called "reroll".
Then revisit the KB heavy toon later maybe when you have more ideas on how to lessen KB from upsetting your teams. There are ways to minimize its negative aspects, but it takes some practice and forethought, so maybe a KB heavy toon is better left for a second or third character after you have already learned the ropes.
Or just play through it and figure it out as you go- pissing people off is part of life 
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thanks for the great advice everyone !
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team with controllers that have AoE immobilize. Then KB won't be effective 
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All I'm saying is, being forced to play with a side effect that obviously frustrates many players isnt good. Yeah I can make another build, but I shouldnt have to.
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Wut the? If someone doesn't like knockback, and there are powersets available to every AT that include little or no knockback, why would that player choose a powerset that features knockback as a secondary effect in almost every power?
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Because the player is new and hasn't gotten to learn the mechanics of the game yet, they only picked the set as it fits a theme that they'd like. The very first hero I ever made was a Energy/Elec blaster, mainly because I loved the show DBZ and wanted to make my own kickbutt version of one. Had I known there was so much KB hate in the game, I would've rolled a fire/elec or whatever.
I see no harm in being able to voluntarily shutoff one's KB.
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
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If your KB is from ranged attacks, learn to Hoversnipe. Attacks from above Knock them Back downwards into the ground.
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I'll have to remember the 'attack from above' what using Explosive Arrow. Usually I just try to position myself so that whoever I target will get knocked back to the Tanks/Scrappers feet. (Same with everything else that causes KB.)
Now I just need to drum that into my Bro's head, on their AR Blasters...
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I see no harm in being able to voluntarily shutoff one's KB.
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I see no harm in adults riding bicycles with training wheels either, but no one does it. Sure, the bicycle is more unstable, it's harder to keep your balance, but once you put in the practice to learn this skill, it has a real payoff, and is the reason bicycles are built with only two wheels after all. Someone who doesn't like riding a two-wheeled bicycle may be better off with another means of transportation (walking, segway, adult tricycle, whatever) than a watered-down version of the bicycle that probably won't maneuver as well.
Similarly, Energy Blast was balanced around knockback for mitigation. It fits thematically, and mechanically Energy Blast does not have extra damage (like Fire Blast) or another secondary effect (the slows/holds of Ice Blast, the resistance debuffs of Sonic Blast, etc.) to aid it. Without knockback, Energy Blast just has more or less base damage and nothing to aid survivability. Moreover, it makes no sense to hit someone with a huge amount of concussive force, only to see them slip as on a banana peel rather than go flying back as if... as if hit with a huge amount of concussive force.
So someone playing with Energy Blast is best off learning to use their knockback, rather than turning it off. Having an "off switch" would deceive beginning users into thinking that Energy Blast is designed to work without the KB. It isn't, and we shouldn't act as if it is.
(Yes, people probably can and have played Energy Blast-ing blasters and defenders with all the KB mitigated. People have played petless masterminds, too. It doesn't mean it's as effective.)
I team with the Repeat Offenders.
"Because the player is new and hasn't gotten to learn the mechanics of the game yet, they only picked the set as it fits a theme that they'd like."
There is nothing unusual about having your first character turn out differently than you expected. This doesn't mean the game mechanics need to be changed so that the character you end up with more closely resembles the character you envisioned.
You want to change a mechanic that's going to be with you throughout the game, so that people who don't know the game mechanics won't have to learn. But that won't be free. A chance for knockback effect that is always on is very powerful, but requires some skill to use. A knockback effect that can be flipped on and off at will requires no skill, and is therefore far more powerful. Some kind of trade-off would be required. I do not want to see one of my favorite weapons blunted, so that it's safer and easier for new players to use. Since I won't be granted extra enhancement slots to compensate me for the reduction in power, I'm not willing to pay for this adjustment by increasing the knockback slotting I'm already doing. Further, a new player who learns how the power works, learns how to work it into various situations and makes the adjustments necessary to reap the benefits is doing themself a favor anyway, and will be better prepared they wind up with a power that doesn't do what they expected based on the powers descriptions.
Suffer a little. It's good for you!
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thanks for the great advice everyone !
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team with controllers that have AoE immobilize. Then KB won't be effective
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Gravity is the one exception to that tactic though. Crushing Field does not prevent KB effects.
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Just let the OP turn off his KB. If it's ruining his overall enjoyment of the game, and he's already invested plenty of time with his toon, than he shouldnt have to deal with it.
Who are we to tell him to deal with it.
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
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I see no harm in being able to voluntarily shutoff one's KB.
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But this was a question, not a suggestion. If you want to post a suggestion to this effect go ahead. You will get plenty of replies telling you why it is a bad idea.
As for the answer, it was given. It was no. You cannot turn off your Knockback.
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thanks for the great advice everyone !
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team with controllers that have AoE immobilize. Then KB won't be effective
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Gravity is the one exception to that tactic though. Crushing Field does not prevent KB effects.
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But Gravity's hold and single target immob grant KB protection.
Dark's Tentacles don't grant KB protection.
In fact, I find that's it's rather random which immobs and holds grant KB protection and which don't.
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thanks for the great advice everyone !
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team with controllers that have AoE immobilize. Then KB won't be effective
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Gravity is the one exception to that tactic though. Crushing Field does not prevent KB effects.
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But Gravity's hold and single target immob grant KB protection.
Dark's Tentacles don't grant KB protection.
In fact, I find that's it's rather random which immobs and holds grant KB protection and which don't.
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It might depend on whether the set's other powers include KB or not... I think.
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team with controllers that have AoE immobilize. Then KB won't be effective
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Gravity is the one exception to that tactic though. Crushing Field does not prevent KB effects.
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But Gravity's hold and single target immob grant KB protection.
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Except that is irrelevant to the statement I was replying to. The context of _Inc_ 's statement is about an AoE immobilize to counter KB effects in general.
[Edit]for clarity.
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.Driver Sweeper * CohHelper * HijackThis * TweakCoH * CPU-ID
* Defraggler * Program Security Scan * PC Performance Scan *
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All I'm saying is, being forced to play with a side effect that obviously frustrates many players isnt good. Yeah I can make another build, but I shouldnt have to.
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Wut the? If someone doesn't like knockback, and there are powersets available to every AT that include little or no knockback, why would that player choose a powerset that features knockback as a secondary effect in almost every power?
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Because the player is new and hasn't gotten to learn the mechanics of the game yet, they only picked the set as it fits a theme that they'd like. The very first hero I ever made was a Energy/Elec blaster, mainly because I loved the show DBZ and wanted to make my own kickbutt version of one. Had I known there was so much KB hate in the game, I would've rolled a fire/elec or whatever.
I see no harm in being able to voluntarily shutoff one's KB.
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Oh my this is no lie but my very first toon was also an energy/elec blaster and I made him cause you guessed it I also LOVE DBZ/DBGT.
But it worked out for me cause in DBZ/DBGT their energy blasts knock mad stuff around all the time. Their constantly getting hit into and threw mountains. So it actually makes sense from this point of view
And I once had a tank tell my controller to stop using the AoE immobilizes because they messed with his knockback attacks. Guess he really got a kick out of handclap. That was a new one.
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thanks for the great advice everyone !
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team with controllers that have AoE immobilize. Then KB won't be effective
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Gravity is the one exception to that tactic though. Crushing Field does not prevent KB effects.
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But Gravity's hold and single target immob grant KB protection.
Dark's Tentacles don't grant KB protection.
In fact, I find that's it's rather random which immobs and holds grant KB protection and which don't.
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It might depend on whether the set's other powers include KB or not... I think.
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Maybe, though Ice's area immobilize power has -KB on it, which clashes with Ice Slick. The same is true for Stone Cages and Earthquake.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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But Gravity's hold and single target immob grant KB protection.
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No it doesn't. Gravity's AoE Hold and Single Target Hold grant KB Protection. The Immobilizes (Both Single Target and AoE) do not.
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All I'm saying is, being forced to play with a side effect that obviously frustrates many players isnt good. Yeah I can make another build, but I shouldnt have to.
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Wut the? If someone doesn't like knockback, and there are powersets available to every AT that include little or no knockback, why would that player choose a powerset that features knockback as a secondary effect in almost every power?
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Because the player is new and hasn't gotten to learn the mechanics of the game yet, they only picked the set as it fits a theme that they'd like. The very first hero I ever made was a Energy/Elec blaster, mainly because I loved the show DBZ and wanted to make my own kickbutt version of one. Had I known there was so much KB hate in the game, I would've rolled a fire/elec or whatever.
I see no harm in being able to voluntarily shutoff one's KB.
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Oh my this is no lie but my very first toon was also an energy/elec blaster and I made him cause you guessed it I also LOVE DBZ/DBGT.
But it worked out for me cause in DBZ/DBGT their energy blasts knock mad stuff around all the time. Their constantly getting hit into and threw mountains. So it actually makes sense from this point of view
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LOL, I bet seeing the power Lightning Field in the /elec pool sealed the deal didnt it? Too bad it it sucks though 
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- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
Pick your targets. Shoot the enemies that the Scrapper and Tank don't have busy. Get strong melee foes away from the squishies (including yourself). Knock them onto the floor, into corners, wherever it's to your advantage.
If people still complain, then the problem's with them, not you.