What? No thread yet on Extra Slot announcement?
is microtransaction the new jerk hacking?
"...his madness keeps him sane.": My Profile on VirtueVerse
Can You WIN the Internet? MA Arc #85544
Inhuman Resources - At Work with IE #298132
Task Force Mutternacht #349522 <-- 1st AE Challenge
Meh
It's not for me. I understand though, that doesn't mean it is bad...it just isn't anything I am personally interested in or have a vested interest in...
They wanna charge for it? Fine by me. Seems people were saying repeatedly that they would be willing to pay for more slots.
Good for them, in all sincerity, this should be a win in most books for players in my meh opinion.
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I work at a hotel. Hey, the room is just gonna sit empty anyway, someone could say, if they don't come in and take it. So why not rent the room to them for just the labor cost of cleaning staff?
and when the guest leaves the hotel, they've got nothing to show for, no physical goods. What a ripoff!
[/ QUOTE ]On the other hand, I bet your hotel charges a room rate about equal to that of the same style room at other hotels. Can you name another place charging six bucks for 100kb of storage space? Data storage is ridiculously cheap. Companies give it away just to make it look like they're offering you some great benefit. Again, the MA and three slots aren't what you're buying here -- you have that with your subscription. All you're getting is a tiny amount of additional data space.
Start charging $600 a night for a Motel 6 quality room and I bet you'll have plenty of people considering it a "ripoff".[ QUOTE ]
Besides, there's another value to putting a price on something. If something costs real money, some people will choose not to get it.
[/ QUOTE ]That I can agree with. Of course, if you set the bar high enough you not only block out people who "don't care" but also those who "don't care enough" to pay that amount. They could charge $15 a slot and they'd block out those who "don't care". They'd block out a lot of potentially interested people as well.
Personally, I'd go $3 a slot. Enough money to make it worth offering and cheap enough to overlook the fact that it's still a well overinflated price for 100kb of space. I wouldn't think less of someone who decided to pay their asking price for the slots but I think it's a valid point to call them overpriced.
We're forgetting the fact that we are creating content for the game. We are doing the job the devs have long delayed, which is to add story content to the game. MA has brought new life to a long stagnant game.
(It also had the potential to bring lots more subscribers til the meltdown over farming, but that's another issue.)
You could argue that since we are doing their job for them, we should get more storage and slots for free.
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$6 to save a 100k file? No thanks.
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Gotta go along with this. I don't mind them selling more story slots, but the price is WAY too high. I'd maybe pay $5 for like 10 extra slots, anything more than that is a little ridiculous.
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They really should allow us to use some of the slots as added storage, for like custom groups and stuff, I'd buy all 5 then, use a couple for some villain groups and the rest for arcs.
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That's . . . a great idea!
Ofcourse they would have to up the files size limit FIRST.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I work at a hotel. Hey, the room is just gonna sit empty anyway, someone could say, if they don't come in and take it. So why not rent the room to them for just the labor cost of cleaning staff?
and when the guest leaves the hotel, they've got nothing to show for, no physical goods. What a ripoff!
[/ QUOTE ]On the other hand, I bet your hotel charges a room rate about equal to that of the same style room at other hotels. Can you name another place charging six bucks for 100kb of storage space? Data storage is ridiculously cheap. Companies give it away just to make it look like they're offering you some great benefit. Again, the MA and three slots aren't what you're buying here -- you have that with your subscription. All you're getting is a tiny amount of additional data space.
Start charging $600 a night for a Motel 6 quality room and I bet you'll have plenty of people considering it a "ripoff".[ QUOTE ]
Besides, there's another value to putting a price on something. If something costs real money, some people will choose not to get it.
[/ QUOTE ]That I can agree with. Of course, if you set the bar high enough you not only block out people who "don't care" but also those who "don't care enough" to pay that amount. They could charge $15 a slot and they'd block out those who "don't care". They'd block out a lot of potentially interested people as well.
Personally, I'd go $3 a slot. Enough money to make it worth offering and cheap enough to overlook the fact that it's still a well overinflated price for 100kb of space. I wouldn't think less of someone who decided to pay their asking price for the slots but I think it's a valid point to call them overpriced.
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Although I don't personally see anything wrong with paying for slots, I must admit this person makes some VERY valid points.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
They really should allow us to use some of the slots as added storage, for like custom groups and stuff, I'd buy all 5 then, use a couple for some villain groups and the rest for arcs.
No.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
QR - Re the '$5 for 100kb' viewpoint, I'd say it wasnt merely memory we're buying at all.
Our sub buys us the following (in terms of the MA):
The MA itself, and 3 slots to publish our arcs in.
The extra buys us:
The option to publish more arcs - and incidentally, as part of this process we 'gain' 100kb worth of space per slot to put our arcs in.
If they were just selling us 100kb of PC memory for $5, then they could give us that in any form. I'm not sure what a stick of Ram that onyl measured 100kb would look like, but that could be it. Or they could give us 100k on some server not connected to the game in any way.
I think looking at it just in terms of the 100kb is pedantic and missing the point, wilfully, even.
There's a piece of plastic in front of me, smallish, circular, probably worth a few cents if that. It's the DVD of Once Upon A Time In The West. Just a piece of plastic, is it? or maybe it's just 4.6gig of memory, nothing more. I've also got Armageddon on DVD, also 4.6gig. They're the same,are they?
Is the 80meg of your most hated bands music ever, worth the same as your favourite album?
My arc The Echo is not 'just' 100kb. All the arcs out there crafted with care by all of us, they are not just worth the memory they occupy.
I and the people who are happy to pay this for more slots are not buying memory. We are buying a dream. We've all got big dreams. We want fame. You want fame? Well, fame costs. And right here is where you start paying ... in sweat.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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$6 to save a 100k file? No thanks.
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Gotta go along with this. I don't mind them selling more story slots, but the price is WAY too high. I'd maybe pay $5 for like 10 extra slots, anything more than that is a little ridiculous.
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This is actually the price scheme suggested by the players who suggested purchasable slots initially... but hey, short memory is short, and entitlement is the word of the day around here so no shock.
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Lol well put.
I've got no problem with the price either. I do feel sympathy for those who aren't as rolling in filthy lucre as me, but if the West hadn't won the Cold War, well our Mission Arkitekt Slotz would be free of course, paid for by the State, but we'd all be wearing identical dungarees and going schitzo trying to deal with wonderful idealism vs the corruption of human greed while we toiled in the fields.
Consider the $20 as a retroactive War Bond payment in the fight against Communism.
Eco.
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Funniest post I've run in a long time! 5 stars, one just for a Cold War Communism reference!
I think the slots are rather pricey, and I'm hoping they'll see this feedback and modify them a bit. It will mean the difference between my buying 1 or 2 slots and buying 5.
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At this pricing if you buy two slots because 5 are too expensive you're an idiot. Sorry.
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ok, this is even double ubber exploit, you got offered more slots for a price, but the size of your missions will exeed your stock anyways.
So i bet next move will be: ok, we sold you more slots, but your story arcs exeeds the stockage limit, so we offer you more space for only 5 usd per SA??????
Keiser Soze got hold of NC SOFT.
No wonder why mod 08 told me we would have some explanations very soon.
He felt ashamed.
did i trolled on this? yup
I posted it in 3 different forums.
If i get a tell, i remove all my accounts.
im not lookin for attention, i want to jet, but im lazy^^
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I sent you a tell. Can I has your stuff?
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at least it provides a barrier to entry to those who are sloppy writers
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You must be new here.
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Lol well put.
I've got no problem with the price either. I do feel sympathy for those who aren't as rolling in filthy lucre as me, but if the West hadn't won the Cold War, well our Mission Arkitekt Slotz would be free of course, paid for by the State, but we'd all be wearing identical dungarees and going schitzo trying to deal with wonderful idealism vs the corruption of human greed while we toiled in the fields.
Consider the $20 as a retroactive War Bond payment in the fight against Communism.
Eco.
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Funniest post I've run in a long time! 5 stars, one just for a Cold War Communism reference!
I think the slots are rather pricey, and I'm hoping they'll see this feedback and modify them a bit. It will mean the difference between my buying 1 or 2 slots and buying 5.
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At this pricing if you buy two slots because 5 are too expensive you're an idiot. Sorry.
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You should be. If my budget only allows me $10 to spend, then that's what I'll spend. If I'm only interested in writing 2 more arcs, then that's all I need. Should I tell you what you need now and prounounce you stupid if it's different than that?
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Lol well put.
I've got no problem with the price either. I do feel sympathy for those who aren't as rolling in filthy lucre as me, but if the West hadn't won the Cold War, well our Mission Arkitekt Slotz would be free of course, paid for by the State, but we'd all be wearing identical dungarees and going schitzo trying to deal with wonderful idealism vs the corruption of human greed while we toiled in the fields.
Consider the $20 as a retroactive War Bond payment in the fight against Communism.
Eco.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funniest post I've run in a long time! 5 stars, one just for a Cold War Communism reference!
I think the slots are rather pricey, and I'm hoping they'll see this feedback and modify them a bit. It will mean the difference between my buying 1 or 2 slots and buying 5.
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At this pricing if you buy two slots because 5 are too expensive you're an idiot. Sorry.
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You should be. If my budget only allows me $10 to spend, then that's what I'll spend. If I'm only interested in writing 2 more arcs, then that's all I need. Should I tell you what you need now and prounounce you stupid if it's different than that?
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You can if you'd like. You might well be justified. It still makes more sound financial sense to have patience and pool two months disposable to get 5 arcs. If you really want it nao, you need to accept that you're throwing money away.
That said I'm really cranky right now for 50 other reasons, so I'm probably going to look back on this and consider myself a troll. In that vein I will admit that, while what I said remains true, I could have said it nicer.
And on another side note, this discussion really should be in the other MA section. This section is supposed to be for stories and lore, not discussions like this.
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$6 to save a 100k file? No thanks.
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Gotta go along with this. I don't mind them selling more story slots, but the price is WAY too high. I'd maybe pay $5 for like 10 extra slots, anything more than that is a little ridiculous.
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This is actually the price scheme suggested by the players who suggested purchasable slots initially... but hey, short memory is short, and entitlement is the word of the day around here so no shock.
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Not sure if you were responding to me ($5 for 10 slots) or the other person ($6 for 1 slot).
I never saw any threads where players said how much they'd be willing to spend for more MA story slots. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying that I've never seen them. Probably because I'm one of those people who could care less about the MA system at this point, as far as from a creative aspect.
I enjoy some of the MArcs that players have made and have tried to make some of my own. I just see that I am one of those people who, while I may have good ideas, can't seem to make my thoughts translate to the MA as well as I'd hoped. I keep trying but after testing my creations I realize that they just aren't all that great. And they are about as "polished" as I can make them.
So be glad at least that some of us (or maybe just me ) realize our failings and have decided to forgo clogging the MA system with (at best) mediocre storylines.
So for me, paying for additional story slots is not only not going to happen because I think they are extremely overpriced, but because I wouldn't likely ever take advantage of them.
Whether the pricing scheme is good or bad will ultimately be left to the players. If they think the price is fair and they want the extra slots, they will pay for them. If they don't, they won't.
Beauty (value, in this case) is in the eye of the beholder.
Edit: I do keep trying to create a "better" MArc, so maybe at some point I may create that arc, or even 3, that I feel are good enough to publish for everyone to see and would actually NEED the extra slots if the ideas kept rolling in. I still feel that the pricing is too expensive and would NOT buy extra slots, but that's just me.
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QR - Re the '$5 for 100kb' viewpoint, I'd say it wasnt merely memory we're buying at all.
Our sub buys us the following (in terms of the MA):
The MA itself, and 3 slots to publish our arcs in.
The extra buys us:
The option to publish more arcs - and incidentally, as part of this process we 'gain' 100kb worth of space per slot to put our arcs in.
[/ QUOTE ]You gain the ability to publish more arcs specifically because they give you 100kb of data. Not in addition to.[ QUOTE ]
There's a piece of plastic in front of me, smallish, circular, probably worth a few cents if that. It's the DVD of Once Upon A Time In The West. Just a piece of plastic, is it? or maybe it's just 4.6gig of memory, nothing more. I've also got Armageddon on DVD, also 4.6gig. They're the same,are they?
[/ QUOTE ]When you buy the DVD, you're largely paying for the data encoded onto the DVD. which is why a DVD of Armageddon costs more than a blank DVD. The 100kb you're buying for $6 is just that -- 100kb of data storage. Technically, it's even more limited than that since you couldn't save a Word file on it or anything but there's no reason to complicate things.[ QUOTE ]
My arc The Echo is not 'just' 100kb. All the arcs out there crafted with care by all of us, they are not just worth the memory they occupy.
[/ QUOTE ]You're not buying an arc. You're buying 100kb of storage upon which you may put an arc.
A blank CD could potentially hold the same music as your favorite $18 album. Would you buy a blank CD for $18? I assume not. Why? Because it's not your favorite album, it's empty potential data storage. So why would you compare a blank 100kb slot on a server to a loaded DVD or CD or book or anything else?[ QUOTE ]
And right here is where you start paying ... in sweat.
[/ QUOTE ]Well, sweat and $6 for 100kb
Edit: I'm going to let it drop with that. Like I've said, those who are happy with the terms, I'm happy for ya. Even an option that *I* don't think is worth it is still an option and obviously some folks are happy with it so it's better that Paragon offers that than to have them offer nothing. I just think that it's overpriced and was giving my opinion why I thought so.
I'll be a heretic and suggest this might actually be close to the right price. Making it a "stretch" purchase hopefully means most people will concentrate instead on refining their three published arcs.
However I'd rather promote people buying 1 or 2 extra slots, not 5! As Talen Lee highlights, the packaging is silly. I'd reverse this, make 5 slots cost more than five times the price of one. Hah!
I have not felt the need to purchase some of CoX's expansion options, yet hundreds of others have done. I imagine we are heading for seven-digit arc numbers, and heptilogies, and farms from storytellers with too many arcs...
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
Massively.com opinion poll: Please Help Save CoH!
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QR - Re the '$5 for 100kb' viewpoint, I'd say it wasnt merely memory we're buying at all.
Our sub buys us the following (in terms of the MA):
The MA itself, and 3 slots to publish our arcs in.
The extra buys us:
The option to publish more arcs - and incidentally, as part of this process we 'gain' 100kb worth of space per slot to put our arcs in.
[/ QUOTE ]You gain the ability to publish more arcs specifically because they give you 100kb of data. Not in addition to.[ QUOTE ]
There's a piece of plastic in front of me, smallish, circular, probably worth a few cents if that. It's the DVD of Once Upon A Time In The West. Just a piece of plastic, is it? or maybe it's just 4.6gig of memory, nothing more. I've also got Armageddon on DVD, also 4.6gig. They're the same,are they?
[/ QUOTE ]When you buy the DVD, you're largely paying for the data encoded onto the DVD. which is why a DVD of Armageddon costs more than a blank DVD. The 100kb you're buying for $6 is just that -- 100kb of data storage. Technically, it's even more limited than that since you couldn't save a Word file on it or anything but there's no reason to complicate things.[ QUOTE ]
My arc The Echo is not 'just' 100kb. All the arcs out there crafted with care by all of us, they are not just worth the memory they occupy.
[/ QUOTE ]You're not buying an arc. You're buying 100kb of storage upon which you may put an arc.
A blank CD could potentially hold the same music as your favorite $18 album. Would you buy a blank CD for $18? I assume not. Why? Because it's not your favorite album, it's empty potential data storage. So why would you compare a blank 100kb slot on a server to a loaded DVD or CD or book or anything else?[ QUOTE ]
And right here is where you start paying ... in sweat.
[/ QUOTE ]Well, sweat and $6 for 100kb
Edit: I'm going to let it drop with that. Like I've said, those who are happy with the terms, I'm happy for ya. Even an option that *I* don't think is worth it is still an option and obviously some folks are happy with it so it's better that Paragon offers that than to have them offer nothing. I just think that it's overpriced and was giving my opinion why I thought so.
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We are obviously looking at utterly different things here.
I see your view like i would someone who buys a guitar and then looks at it and throws his hands up and says 'Pff, what a waste of money! Where's my awesome choons?'
And I don't mean that someone else should be providing the music. That person shouldn't indeed buy a guitar. To him it's just an expensive ornament. To someone who wants to learn to play, the investment is not for the piece of wood and string, its for the pleasure gained out of the use of that instrument.
Which is why I tell you I am NOT paying for 100kb. Trying to say that I am is ludicrous. If I was just paying for memory, then i could go here or here for a much better deal than 100kb for $5. The reason I don't is because I am not interested in buying memory form anyone. if the MA had been implemeted without any mention of actual memory, but instead had just referred to 'slotspace' (they could even have invented some game jargon connected to the AE mechanisms) and percentages, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The kb are completely incidental. Following your point leads to them offering us the market rate for the memory we use. For $5 I can buy a 1GB memory stick here in Poland. I'd follow any suggestion thread you make on upping our slot size to 1gig with interest!
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
I for one am glad. After making a 3 part epic that took up all of my spaces, I get the chance to make more stuff for people to play. I know I would use them too, because I have so many great ideas and 3 slots simply does not do any justification. I'm sure many people agree with me.
There is the argument that the Ae will bogged down with even more "farms" or "less then mediocre stuff", but you have to take the good with the bad.
I hope they implement it soon... I have a great new "TV Show" I'd like to publish.
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For $5 I can buy a 1GB memory stick here in Poland. I'd follow any suggestion thread you make on upping our slot size to 1gig with interest!
[/ QUOTE ]I'm a reasonable man. I'd settle for a half gig
LOL can you imagine the army of customs you could make with half a gig? You could probably literally male an army of individual custom critters!
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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And I don't mean that someone else should be providing the music. That person shouldn't indeed buy a guitar. To him it's just an expensive ornament. To someone who wants to learn to play, the investment is not for the piece of wood and string, its for the pleasure gained out of the use of that instrument.
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Yes indeed. Except in this case its the players creating part of the "soundtrack" of the game. We are adding value to the IP and yet have to pay them for the privilege.
The best thing for this game would be to open it up. I'm sure the number of MAs already created exceeds several times over the entire mission count of CoH/CoV combined. That should be the marketing hook to appeal to new subscribers, not microtransactions. But MTs are an industry trend, so probably not going away anytime soon.
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And I don't mean that someone else should be providing the music. That person shouldn't indeed buy a guitar. To him it's just an expensive ornament. To someone who wants to learn to play, the investment is not for the piece of wood and string, its for the pleasure gained out of the use of that instrument.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes indeed. Except in this case its the players creating part of the "soundtrack" of the game. We are adding value to the IP and yet have to pay them for the privilege.
The best thing for this game would be to open it up. I'm sure the number of MAs already created exceeds several times over the entire mission count of CoH/CoV combined. That should be the marketing hook to appeal to new subscribers, not microtransactions. But MTs are an industry trend, so probably not going away anytime soon.
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I agree with this. It's pretty sad that they make something in the game that is very appealing to players, then, after they have them 'hooked', they decide to start selling them the product that they've hooked them on. It's basically what pushers do with drugs when they hand out free samples, then people get hooked and are willing to pay whatever it takes to get another 'fix'. I don't think I need a 'fix' all that badly.
The thing that bugs me most about it is the fact that they are hooking long time players as well as getting many new players to join in order to try it out. It seems that our monthly fee isn't enough for them, so they have to find other ways to get a few more bucks out of us. I understand capitalism is a great thing, but when it starts to suck money out of us like a vampire sucks blood, IMHO, it goes a bit too far. They want to enjoy the monthly sub fees of a large player-base, but they're not satisfied with just the cash they're making off of that. They seem to want to bleed us dry by charging us for 'perks' that should be bonuses to keep us playing. I'm not so sure I need to keep up with the Joneses that badly.
No AV/EBs Deal with The Devil's Pawn-207266 Slash DeMento and the Stolen Weapons-100045 Meet the Demon Spawn-151099 Feedback
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The thing that bugs me most about it is the fact that they are hooking long time players as well as getting many new players to join in order to try it out. It seems that our monthly fee isn't enough for them, so they have to find other ways to get a few more bucks out of us. I understand capitalism is a great thing, but when it starts to suck money out of us like a vampire sucks blood, IMHO, it goes a bit too far. They want to enjoy the monthly sub fees of a large player-base, but they're not satisfied with just the cash they're making off of that. They seem to want to bleed us dry by charging us for 'perks' that should be bonuses to keep us playing. I'm not so sure I need to keep up with the Joneses that badly.
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I'm glad you agree with me. In my mind, the ONLY reason to invite long term players to "buy" FREE extra arcs on test is to get us create more stuff so we want to transfer it to Live. After all, its not like we don't know how MArcs work.
On the other hand, you have to give the devil his due. It's quite brilliant for a company to get its customers to invest more money into its game BEFORE the competition comes out. The more money you've invested in the game - whether it be from additional MArc slots to booster paks -- the less likely you are to change horses in mid-stream.
So do a line of ... MArcs ... sit back, and feel good ...
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You get 3 arc slots for free (well, for your subscription cost).
I have a real job, so I have no problem paying $20 for 5 more arc slots.
I realize a bunch of people are going to complain about the cost, because it's "just storage space" (not considering the cost it took for the devs to actually create Mission Architect), but consider that you pay more than that for:
* Dinner in a restaurant. And that's just, you know, ingredients that probably cost almost nothing.
* An oil change. That's just some cheap chemicals, after all! Why should it be so expensive?
* A hardcover book. It's made of paper for chrissake! You can get blank paper for way cheaper, what's with the huge markup?
* A ticket to a concert or sporting event. That's not even something material! It's just rental of a seat for a couple hours! Why should it cost money at all?
In summary, everything is a rip off! But CoH is less of a ripoff than most.
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Incredibly well said, PW.
Heck, everyone should stop and consider how this could apply to themselves and their jobs.
I work at a hotel. Hey, the room is just gonna sit empty anyway, someone could say, if they don't come in and take it. So why not rent the room to them for just the labor cost of cleaning staff?
and when the guest leaves the hotel, they've got nothing to show for, no physical goods. What a ripoff!
As PW says, the arc slots are less a "rip-off" than just about everything else out there.
Besides, there's another value to putting a price on something. If something costs real money, some people will choose not to get it. That's a filtering mechanism. If there is a cost, it's a deterrent to those who don't really care, getting them to not participate.
Of course, as Venture observes, enthusiasm is hardly an assurance of any kind of quality. But, at least it provides a barrier to entry to those who are sloppy writers because they just don't care really....
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)