Should the signature villains be AV rank?
AVs do not overshadow my brute!
You probably misinterpreted him. I'm probably misinterpreting him. Heck, Johnny_Butane is probably misinterpreting him too.
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Sounds like Johnny_Butane needs to stop running on difficulty level 5.
My understanding is that he objects to the whole 'scale down to EB/up to AV' mechanic, and that if a character is written in such a way as to imply EB status, they should always be that status, excluding plot related buffs.
I think he has kind of a point (not that the game to date should be rewritten to accomodate it). I can see a use for separating team-intended content from solo-intended content (though not necessarily barring any player or team from any content).
However, he and I disagree on what is necessary to indicate a character 'should be' an AV, story-fluff-wise, and on whether Signature Characters should be 'allowed' to be AVs.
Still, I think it's potentially a fun discussion.
For instance, Hamidon is basically a somewhat weaker Galactus or Unicron, while Rularuu is a scaled-UP version.
I see Statesman as going toe-to-toe with Superman/Thor, or Thanos/Darkseid, with players topping out around X-Men/Titans or Mutant Brotherhood/Brotherhood of Evil. I don't feel the need to be as powerful as a flagship character, although I don't object to J_B wanting that level of power.
I'm just curious about how others feel about how future content should be written.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Unless I am misinterpreting him, Johnny_Butane feels that the Signature characters (Statesman, Lord Recluse, etc) should be EBs, and that AV status should be reserved for 'plot device' characters or raid characters only.
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In content intended for level 40-45+ players.
It should be noted that a great deal of the newer Team Only content in question, I have no objection with. As far as this subject goes, the ITF is nearly perfect, with the exception of the third mission.
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In a case where a team of players encounters a Signature character, he thinks the system should generate an AV helper, or a team of EB helpers, or the story should include a plot device that makes it clear that the signature character's elevation to AV status is plot-related and temporary.
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Those were just a couple of suggestions. I'm sure the devs could come up with other creative ways of providing challenge to a team or solo player on Invincible than bloating up the end encounter to an AV.
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QR
I disagree with Johnny, but not completely.
I think the Signature characters should be AVs BUT I think AVs should play a little bit more by the rules. To wit:
1) AVs should have mez protection, but not the PTOD. If a Tanker has 17.3 MAG of protection, then give Statesman that, but not more. If he hit Unstoppable then he gets another 17.3. Still makes him hella hard, but fairly so. If Sister Psyche is Mind/FF then she gets the 6-9 FF defenders get and no sleep protection.
2) Tame the AVs regen rate. Unless they're a regen type character, AVs should not have such a high regen rate, IMO. This serves only to require [X] amount of DPS or -regen to take them down. And if the AV is regen, they they should not have much if any resistance (except in MoG)
3) Tame AV damage. Fighting an AV should be like fighting an expert and strong player. AVs being able to do 1700 HP in one swing is silly.
Tankers should be able to defeat AVs if they're built and played right. It should take a long time, it should be epic. But it should be possible. Right now, the right combo can stand against an AV easily while another dies in seconds.
As players AVs shouldn't be cakewalks and teaming up should make them easier. But any player with extreme skill should be able to solo an AV.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I've never had a conceptual problem with the EB->AV scaling mechanic. I basically consider it the NPC equivalent to players using a lot of inspirations in critical situations.
Do you think the Devs should be barred from creating content that includes a battle where a team of 8 level 50s have an even toe to toe fight with a lone character?
I think that such content should exist: there should be fights that go like the X-Men vs Magneto, where he has enough Mez Protection/Defense that 8 Controllers can't permahold him and 8 Blasters/Scrappers can't shred him faster than a certain speed, for instance.
A related issue might be: How long should it take the average PUG of 8 level 50s to take down an epic encounter? 1 minute? 10 minutes? 100 minutes? Keep in mind that if a PUG can do it in 10, a Superteam like Buffer Overrun will be able to do it in 1 or so.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
1) AVs should have mez protection, but not the PTOD. If a Tanker has 17.3 MAG of protection, then give Statesman that, but not more. If he hit Unstoppable then he gets another 17.3. Still makes him hella hard, but fairly so. If Sister Psyche is Mind/FF then she gets the 6-9 FF defenders get and no sleep protection.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the numbers are, but I feel confident that the idea is that 8 Controllers should not be able to keep an AV held more than 1 minute out of every 2. The PToD is just an easy way of doing that. However you get there is immaterial, the effect is the same.
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2) Tame the AVs regen rate. Unless they're a regen type character, AVs should not have such a high regen rate, IMO. This serves only to require [X] amount of DPS or -regen to take them down. And if the AV is regen, they they should not have much if any resistance (except in MoG)
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Here the point is for the AV to last some minimum amount of time against a team of 8 Blasters. Again, I don't know the numbers, but the end result is the same: the Av has enough mitigation that even with the anti-mitigation tools available to a team, it's non-trivial.
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3) Tame AV damage. Fighting an AV should be like fighting an expert and strong player. AVs being able to do 1700 HP in one swing is silly.
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If the AV is hitting a squishy for 1700, he's hitting the Tanker for 170, which he is going to more or less shrug off. This is before debuffs. Just pointing that out. Maybe it would be better for them to have some unresistable damage than to hit so hard?
To put this into comic-book perspective: If Doomsday can take Superman out with a score or so of blows, how long should it take him to take down a 'squishy' like Batman or Vixen?
The design is that neither Batman nor Superman should be soloing him.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
1) AVs should have mez protection, but not the PTOD. If a Tanker has 17.3 MAG of protection, then give Statesman that, but not more. If he hit Unstoppable then he gets another 17.3. Still makes him hella hard, but fairly so. If Sister Psyche is Mind/FF then she gets the 6-9 FF defenders get and no sleep protection.
2) Tame the AVs regen rate. Unless they're a regen type character, AVs should not have such a high regen rate, IMO. This serves only to require [X] amount of DPS or -regen to take them down. And if the AV is regen, they they should not have much if any resistance (except in MoG)
3) Tame AV damage. Fighting an AV should be like fighting an expert and strong player. AVs being able to do 1700 HP in one swing is silly.
Tankers should be able to defeat AVs if they're built and played right. It should take a long time, it should be epic. But it should be possible. Right now, the right combo can stand against an AV easily while another dies in seconds.
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EvilGeko presents a compromise I had not considered.
In regards to #'s 2 and 3, what if AVs got a base regeneration and damage reduction and had powers similar to Rise to the Challenge and Against All Odds added, each with map-wide (or increadibly huge) radius. That way they would be possible for more builds and power sets to tackle solo, yet still scale for teams. In fact that would give the devs even finer control on content for small teams vs large teams.
I would still rather other alternatives to AVs being used attempted most of the time and would still like to see narrative/plot reasons for the power up.
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I agree with JB's overall premise, both for conceptual and mechanical reasons.
The vast numerical superiority of AVs over any given level 50 brings with it the implication that these characters are indeed more powerful than the players. Even if soloed, their powers are still better and their HP vastly higher.
Conceptually this benefits no one except perhaps those who really want to be an ingame lackey (which is already provided for through the SK/LK system anyhow), and the developers who may or may not have personal attachment to said characters.
Conceptually, this hurts *some* of us. Obviously not all or we wouldn't be having this thread. I know within my circle of friends, the sentiment is that characters like Statesman and company directly detract from our fun simply by the fact we'll never be quite as good as them. That's not to say it ruins my fun and makes me want to take my toys and go home, but it does *detract* from my fun in a measurable way, like a mosquito buzzing in your ear that you can't seem to properly swat.
Are there conceptual benefits to these "Hero's Heroes" that I have missed? I'm fine being wrong, but the light I've seen this in for my years here has never been a pleasant one.
Mechanically, variety is always good. We have a lot of AV fights currently, and frankly they're not all that much different from each other. The formula is pretty much the same for most of them, and in the end it generally boils down to a team of heroes hacking away at a sack of HP for a few minutes. With us looking like the minions, and our opponent looking like the one holding out against the odds.
Contrary to a poster in the previous thread, we *don't* currently have many multi-EB mosh pits, and they are not the same as the standard minion mash. The ITF is proof of the latter, a pack of minotaurs doesn't disintegrate away in a few AoEs, and with different EBs come different challenges.
If people really love fighting AVs and want nothing but AV fights that is of course a valid opinion, but I know I personally would like more from both a conceptual and mechanical standpoint.
Infatum on Virtueverse
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Do you think the Devs should be barred from creating content that includes a battle where a team of 8 level 50s have an even toe to toe fight with a lone character?
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Absolutely not. The devs aren't barred from anything as they're god here. What I'm saying is that the signature characters and other AVs shouldn't be possible for some but not others, based solely on AT.
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I think that such content should exist: there should be fights that go like the X-Men vs Magneto, where he has enough Mez Protection/Defense that 8 Controllers can't permahold him and 8 Blasters/Scrappers can't shred him faster than a certain speed, for instance.
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Sure. But the reality in game is that Wolverine (Scrapper) and Emma Frost (Controller) beats Mags silly, while Cyclops (Blaster) and Collossus (Tanker) get owned. Maybe that's fair. But I don't think so.
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A related issue might be: How long should it take the average PUG of 8 level 50s to take down an epic encounter? 1 minute? 10 minutes? 100 minutes? Keep in mind that if a PUG can do it in 10, a Superteam like Buffer Overrun will be able to do it in 1 or so.
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Not really related to my point, but I don't think buffer overrun teams should be considered in balance considerations until the devs man up and introduce diminishing returns to buffs.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I know within my circle of friends, the sentiment is that characters like Statesman and company directly detract from our fun simply by the fact we'll never be quite as good as them.
[/ QUOTE ]
When the DCUO and Marvel MMOs debut, will you feel the same if maxed out characters in those systems still aren't as powerful mechanically as the in-game Superman, Darkseid, Hulk, or Thanos?
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
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1) AVs should have mez protection, but not the PTOD. If a Tanker has 17.3 MAG of protection, then give Statesman that, but not more. If he hit Unstoppable then he gets another 17.3. Still makes him hella hard, but fairly so. If Sister Psyche is Mind/FF then she gets the 6-9 FF defenders get and no sleep protection.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the numbers are, but I feel confident that the idea is that 8 Controllers should not be able to keep an AV held more than 1 minute out of every 2. The PToD is just an easy way of doing that. However you get there is immaterial, the effect is the same.
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IIRC 8 Controllers or Dominators can hold anything.
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2) Tame the AVs regen rate. Unless they're a regen type character, AVs should not have such a high regen rate, IMO. This serves only to require [X] amount of DPS or -regen to take them down. And if the AV is regen, they they should not have much if any resistance (except in MoG)
[/ QUOTE ]
Here the point is for the AV to last some minimum amount of time against a team of 8 Blasters. Again, I don't know the numbers, but the end result is the same: the Av has enough mitigation that even with the anti-mitigation tools available to a team, it's non-trivial.
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8 Blasters should melt any any AV in less than 30 seconds IMO.
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3) Tame AV damage. Fighting an AV should be like fighting an expert and strong player. AVs being able to do 1700 HP in one swing is silly.
[/ QUOTE ]
If the AV is hitting a squishy for 1700, he's hitting the Tanker for 170, which he is going to more or less shrug off. This is before debuffs. Just pointing that out. Maybe it would be better for them to have some unresistable damage than to hit so hard?
To put this into comic-book perspective: If Doomsday can take Superman out with a score or so of blows, how long should it take him to take down a 'squishy' like Batman or Vixen?
The design is that neither Batman nor Superman should be soloing him.
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Again the problem in game is that:
Batman (MA/SR) owns Doomsday while Superman can stand there for something like three or four years, but never win while never losing either.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Supes could win if he manned up and went for the kill.
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When the DCUO and Marvel MMOs debut, will you feel the same if maxed out characters in those systems still aren't as powerful mechanically as the in-game Superman, Darkseid, Hulk, or Thanos?
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Those characters are one of the reasons I have no desire to play in those canons. Again I ask, what purpose do hero's heroes serve in an MMO? In comics I can see some purpose, but not in a comic book MMO, it is part of the genre that doesn't help the game, unless of course I am missing something, in which case I'd be happy to be enlightened.
Infatum on Virtueverse
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What I'm saying is that the signature characters and other AVs shouldn't be possible for some but not others, based solely on AT.
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By 'AT' here, do you actually mean 'build'? I find that most people say AT when they mean build.
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But the reality in game is that Wolverine (Scrapper) and Emma Frost (Controller) beats Mags silly, while Cyclops (Blaster) and Collossus (Tanker) get owned.
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Ideally, IMHO, it whould vary from AV to AV, and possibly within a single encounter. Some AVs should be best handled with a team of 8 Blasters, where a different one calls for 8 Tankers. Or even Blasting the AV from range should be best early on, then you want to send in the Tankers at a certain point.
A related question might be: should there be content that is intended by design to be above the performance level of the average PUG, and if so, how should it be gated/labelled?
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
QR
Let me say how I've dealt with this issue myself. I accept that I have some characters who are simply godlike while others aren't. This isn't exactly easy for me, because it seems almost arbitrary sometimes.
For example, my new project Solar Paladin, my Fire/Shield Scrapper WILL solo AVs. Probably when she's finished she'll take on the entire Praetorian guard by herself. I don't have any doubt she can. She's already soft-capped to melee and will be to ranged/aoe when she's finished. Her DPS is absurd without Hasten (which will be her 49 power).
By contrast my Ill/FF controller is IOed out, but will NEVER solo an AV. Just doesn't have the DPS. She won't die. Hell, she'll probably never get hit. But with no -regen, she can't kill the dern things. This isn't satisfying to me, but it is what it is. But if I had went */Rad instead of */FF the story as we know would have been much different.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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IIRC 8 Controllers or Dominators can hold anything.
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That may be the reality, but I doubt that it is the intent or design.
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8 Blasters should melt any any AV in less than 30 seconds IMO.
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If 8 Blasters 'should' be able to melt any Arch Villain in 30 seconds, then what should there be in the game to challenge them in an instance?
Some new rank between Arch Villains and Monsters?
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
< EvilGeko >
[ QUOTE ]
1) AVs should have mez protection, but not the PTOD. If a Tanker has 17.3 MAG of protection, then give Statesman that, but not more. If he hit Unstoppable then he gets another 17.3. Still makes him hella hard, but fairly so. If Sister Psyche is Mind/FF then she gets the 6-9 FF defenders get and no sleep protection.
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Most AVs have a sleep hole, actually.
That aside, I'm not sure what should be done with the PTOD. If they set the MAG too low, then they'll easily become statues. If set too high, they're rarely mezzed. My gut reaction was to give them +status resistance instead of protection, but the same thing would happen (half duration is just as hard to overcome as double protection).
The only thing I can think of would be to add a random breakfree (protection or resistance) to prevent them from being permanently locked down. Heck, it could be a passive power that increases in chance as their hp dropped.
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2) Tame the AVs regen rate. Unless they're a regen type character, AVs should not have such a high regen rate, IMO. This serves only to require [X] amount of DPS or -regen to take them down. And if the AV is regen, they they should not have much if any resistance (except in MoG)
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On teams, I don't think their regen rate alone is that bad. The kicker is the resistance they bring to the table (purple patch included). A +2 AV with 20% resistance would only take 64% normal damage, which would be like fighting an even con AV with 56% higher regen. That hurts. (That's not to say I like the barrier to entry, mind you.)
So, if you wanted to keep the challenge / time to kill similar between AVs now and after your change, would you accept a higher AV hp pool with lower regen to compensate? It would make killing them more inviting to low dps groups, but not something that could be mowed through by high dps groups.
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3) Tame AV damage. Fighting an AV should be like fighting an expert and strong player. AVs being able to do 1700 HP in one swing is silly.
Tankers should be able to defeat AVs if they're built and played right. It should take a long time, it should be epic. But it should be possible. Right now, the right combo can stand against an AV easily while another dies in seconds.
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This one I don't think I can agree with. Yes, AV damage is pretty crazy and some combos are more disadvantaged than others. However, if you lower it too much, then AVs are no longer a threat. AVs are team content, and if they're too easy for a solo Tank, then a grouped one with buffs will find it trivial. (To be fair, they can be trivialized now, but I don't think it's a situation that should be made easier.)
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As players AVs shouldn't be cakewalks and teaming up should make them easier. But any player with extreme skill should be able to solo an AV.
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That's trying to balance a rank meant to challenge teams to be soloable as well. I'm not against this in principle, but as I said above I'm leery of ramifications against groups (which is their purpose).
< /EvilGeko >
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In regards to #'s 2 and 3, what if AVs got a base regeneration and damage reduction and had powers similar to Rise to the Challenge and Against All Odds added, each with map-wide (or increadibly huge) radius. That way they would be possible for more builds and power sets to tackle solo, yet still scale for teams. In fact that would give the devs even finer control on content for small teams vs large teams.
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Johnny_Butane: That's an interesting idea, but I do have a question:
How is that any different than the existing EB/AV mechanic?
If you're solo or in a small group, they spawn as EBs and are readily taken down. If you're in a big team or Invincible, they spawn as an AV to challenge you. With this mechanic, it basically scales down/up AVs in a similar fashion. (Heh, that'd make the AVs easier as people die... dubious that's a desireable outcome. :P)
-edit-
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What I'm saying is that the signature characters and other AVs shouldn't be possible for some but not others, based solely on AT.
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EvilGeko: It's not so much AT as it is powersets. I know Tankers have soloed AVs, probably the best one being Shield/DM.
Hm, I can kinda see the point. The AV scaling down to EB mechanic has always bothered me, from an in-character perspective. I fight BaB solo, he's an EB, but then I join a team doing the same mission, and he's an AV. Besides which, they are everywhere in high-end villain content, so playing on Invincible becomes more of a PITA than it's worth, as you're turning down your difficulty every other mission.
Now if they were all EBs most of the time, and scaled up to AVs for stuff like the RSF, I'm sure they could come up with some justification to hand-wave away the upgrade. After all, I fought a much wussier BaB and Mynx in the 30s, with no explanation. Besides, most AV fights aren't that challenging anyway. Once you've cleared away the spawn with the AV, you've won.
I'd like to see them do more things with the signature characters' minions. Add ambushes. Up the boss-counts in the EB spawn for bigger teams. It's would make these encounters far more challenging, interesting, and less annoying than just giving all the sig characters massive debuffs, tier 9s, or insanely high damage. Also from an in-character perspective, it would mean they're not that much tougher than us, they've just been around longer, are better-known, and therefore have more backup available. Which makes sense.
Besides, wouldn't it be cool for one of the Freedom Phalanx to admit they can't fight you alone and send a task force after you? Then you could fight a bunch of random heroes like in the STF? Now THAT would make a villain feel important.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
[ QUOTE ]
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What I'm saying is that the signature characters and other AVs shouldn't be possible for some but not others, based solely on AT.
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By 'AT' here, do you actually mean 'build'? I find that most people sat AT when they mean build.
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I mean a bit of both. I think nearly every Scrapper can be built to defeat AVs, but not all Controllers or Defenders can.
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A related question might be: should there be content that is intended by design to be above the performance level of the average PUG, and if so, how should it be gated/labelled?
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Yes. But not above the performance level of the average team of people who are decent. For example, hell most people on Justice at the level cap are good players in my experience. It's really a joy of a server to be on.
The only gate to such content should be practice/skill.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
Most AVs have a sleep hole, actually.
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Yes. Found that out learning the LRSF. I was just saying that an AV should have mez protection like a player does. If that closes the sleep hole in some cases, so be it.
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This one I don't think I can agree with. Yes, AV damage is pretty crazy and some combos are more disadvantaged than others. However, if you lower it too much, then AVs are no longer a threat. AVs are team content, and if they're too easy for a solo Tank, then a grouped one with buffs will find it trivial. (To be fair, they can be trivialized now, but I don't think it's a situation that should be made easier.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, the point is that I don't necessarily agree with AVs being team content. They should be easier with teams.
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I know Tankers have soloed AVs, probably the best one being Shield/DM.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's almost an exception that proved the rule situation.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When the DCUO and Marvel MMOs debut, will you feel the same if maxed out characters in those systems still aren't as powerful mechanically as the in-game Superman, Darkseid, Hulk, or Thanos?
[/ QUOTE ]
Those characters are one of the reasons I have no desire to play in those canons. Again I ask, what purpose do hero's heroes serve in an MMO? In comics I can see some purpose, but not in a comic book MMO, it is part of the genre that doesn't help the game, unless of course I am missing something, in which case I'd be happy to be enlightened.
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Fair enough.
The thing is, even if my character is more powerful mechanically than a Signature character, it means nothing because I will still never be of that status in canon (unless I win a contest or something). I may be able to beat down Statesman solo ingame, but that doesn't mean my face will be on the next in-store box (and that's a shame, too, as I am much better looking).
It's not that I feel that having "heroes' heroes" means anything to the Devs or the critters, it's just that it's an unavoidable result of having a canon (and a marketing department) in the first place.
That said, I'm sure there are players in this game that have indeed soloed Statesman, or Recluse without the towers, despite their AV status. I just see no reason to weaken them even more so that my toggle-less Tanker Daisy Dukes can solo them.
Even if the badge you get for beating alt future Lord Recluse added you to some sort of list that made it so that all Arachnos critters took a knee when you clicked on them, that would still mean little if all 150,000 players could get there and it would be 'unfair' if everyone couldn't.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Unless I am misinterpreting him, Johnny_Butane feels that the Signature characters (Statesman, Lord Recluse, etc) should be EBs, and that AV status should be reserved for 'plot device' characters or raid characters only.
In a case where a team of players encounters a Signature character, he thinks the system should generate an AV helper, or a team of EB helpers, or the story should include a plot device that makes it clear that the signature character's elevation to AV status is plot-related and temporary.
He feels that this change should be made to keep signature characters from overshadowing players.
Agree or Disagree (and why)?
EDIT: Speeling...
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!