The high end cost on the enchant undead is because you now enchant all your undead with one use of the power. This is great for the initial set up, but as you pointed out, it SUCKS when you have to replace just one.
There's been several threads about enemies running away, so I think that's a recent AI change. Basically, mobs are trying to move to "ranged" range, and sometimes just keep running. Not sure if it's a bug. I've also heard they start to run after so many times of not hitting in a row, but I'm not sure if this is true.
I have a Bot/FF, and he's still pretty much invincible. I don't think they've nerfed any of the secondaries.
I just started a necro/, and I notice that the zombies are very fragile when compared to my bots at that level. I don't know if this has always been the case or not.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
As to zombies vs. other pets, I thought they were resistant to Lethal, but they seem vulnerable. Certainly fire kills them right away.
I should mention that the big mission I had trouble with was the cape mission. The warehouse full of Longbow agents had multiple spawns packed so close together that it was pretty much impossible to avoid unwanted aggro--not with the enemies running away constantly. Of course, the actual cape-grab in Steel Canyon is a total nightmare, with spawns dispersed in an impressively unavoidable fashion.
The trick there is learning how to control the pets while you pull.
Put pets on Def Follow. Quickly aggro (Force Bolt) a mob and pull it away from the crowd. You have a bout 5 seconds of time until your pets respond, so re-issue the Def Follow command as needed until you get to a safe spot to fight.
You will get adds this way, but very, very seldom from more than one group. Mostly you'll get a couple of whites an a yellow while playing solo. This should still be easy to deal with.
As you pull, you'll have full bodyguard mode since you're using Def Follow. With 2/3 damage resistance to everything, you're pretty tough to kill or even injure significantly. If you add Life Tap from your primary, survivability goes up.
After you get to where you want to fight, don't re-issue any more pet commands. Let the timer on Def Follow expire. This will keep you in bodyguard mode, which is essential to avoiding sudden spikes in damage taken. After your pets pull some aggro from you (a good reason to use Force Bolt, it damages mobs only a little and therefore doesn't cause much aggro on you directly), you can order your pets to attack a single target to kill things off quicker.
One thing to remember is you can "perma ghetto hold" one mob by Force Bolting the bejeesus out of it. They can't fight you when they're being force bolted into a wall. That takes one mob out of the fight, and since few things have KB resistance most mobs are susceptible to this technique. Accuracy and Recharge are essential here, and EndRedux and Range in FB helps too. And unlike a Defender you can have your pets do damage as you FB.
My Zombie/FF never made it past level 6 so I can't say how great Z/FF is in later levels, although my Zombie/Poison seemed ok while I was playing it.
[ QUOTE ]
So, after a hiatus of about two years, I reactivated my account and started playing my level 20 Necro/FF MM. This was a guy I considered pretty broken way back in the early days of CoV. The only toon I can say has never tasted defeat.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bolding added; right there you have much of the problem. The early 20s are pretty much the toughest time in the game for any MM I've played. Pre-SO enhancements until 22, only 1 2nd tier pet until 24, and Scrapyarders.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
zombies and ninjas in particular really have a rough time until they get their 2nd upgrade skill at 32.
Level 24 with SOs and second 2nd tier is the big upswing. Level 26 adds the big bubba. Level 28-30 solidifies your playability until you have the super surge at level 32.
Level 20 is where it definitely is a challenge. Teaming helps.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Also, as far as running enemies go, once you get the Lich that should be less of a problem as he likes to toss out Tenebrous Tentacles.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
And if he hasn't, hot key "petcomall pas fol$$petcomall def fol" to reign in the pets.
Then just wait. That mob will come back. But you don't want to let your pets go chasing, that's a disaster.
[ QUOTE ]
zombies and ninjas in particular really have a rough time until they get their 2nd upgrade skill at 32.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't see this. My ninja/poison had the most trouble pre-18. But then, that was back in issue 6 too.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
[ QUOTE ]
As to zombies vs. other pets, I thought they were resistant to Lethal, but they seem vulnerable. Certainly fire kills them right away.
[/ QUOTE ]
All tiers of zombies have 0 resistance to both lethal and fire.
Also, if you wanna make your necro/ff way more survivable, I highly recommend getting both of the +5% defense to pet auras. You can't slot in the recharge intensive pet one until the patch on test that makes it slottable in soul extraction goes through, but when it does, that's an extra 10% defense to your zombies on top of what your FF bubbles give. And while you are at it, slot in both resist IOs too and give your zombies an extra 20% resists to everything, including lethal and fire.
I highly recommend not running around in pff since that makes your dispersion bubble stop giving your pets benefit and you have bodyguard mode anyways, and I'd also recommend picking up provoke and drain life and taunting all the trouble targets away from your zombies and onto your bodyguarded self.
EDIT:
Also, I highly recommend at least 2 slotting your upgrades for end redux. Recharge doesn't matter, but that end reduction is highly valued. If you can spare the slots, maybe even 3 slot. You're 2 levels away from SOs/25 IOs so that'll help a lot. Getting better values in your bubbles/dispersion and more end redux is certainally nice. Also, when you get your lich, I also highly recommend slotting for tohit debuff over any thing else (except for accuracy of course). Tohit debuffs on top of mad defense and your pets will feel unkillable again.
Lots of great advice. Thanks!
masterminds have lost no power from cov launch
if anything they've gained astronomical amounts with the invention system.
One other thing I just remembered; PFF now suppresses when you click a glowy.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
[ QUOTE ]
One other thing I just remembered; PFF now suppresses when you click a glowy.
[/ QUOTE ]
True, but tell me this: do you need PFF 90% of the time? Is it something you must have because without it you can't survive?
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Yeah, once you have six pets running around just grab the taunt from the presence pool. Thanks to everyone here, I use that power like mad, and it changes things immensely. Yeah, I take damage. And? I only take a tiny bit. By the time the mobs are down, I've regenerated that health back.
Seriously, get up to 24, grab presence, go to town.
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, once you have six pets running around just grab the taunt from the presence pool. Thanks to everyone here, I use that power like mad, and it changes things immensely. Yeah, I take damage. And? I only take a tiny bit. By the time the mobs are down, I've regenerated that health back.
Seriously, get up to 24, grab presence, go to town.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not always wise, but it is a tactic. AoE sigs (Miss Liberty I'm looking at you) will shred you to ribbons with such tactics. Valkyre also has a NASTY targeted aoe... not sure why either since she's a meleer.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't see this. My ninja/poison had the most trouble pre-18. But then, that was back in issue 6 too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Things get a bit easier with Jounin (and smoke bomb if you're good with it,) but I still found them quite weak and dying a lot until at least the Oni was around for fire cages.
[ QUOTE ]
masterminds have lost no power from cov launch
[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder how folks can make statements like this. I mean, it's quite possible that over two years the design could shift and change in little, undramatic ways with a gradual impact that wouldn't be noticed to anyone who hasn't taken a big hiatus. Clearly the END cost of enchanting one measly zombie has been drastically increased, and that's a much bigger hassle than enchanting them in succession at the start of a mission (I have to do that with the bubbles anyway, so the enchant was just another button to cycle). Seems like a nerf more than a buff, as we're talking a power that could just as well cost zero END without inviting any balance problems, unless not having some END consumption problem to manage is considered unbalancing (and that may well be the devs' PoV).
I'm also wondering if the recharge time of PFF was two minutes last time I played either (I recall being able to give orders through the PFF, so I didn't have a constant need to drop it). I'm darn sure my undead survived battles a lot more easily than they do now--they're getting hit, and the bubbles just ain't mitigating the damage like they used to. Defenses were "rebalanced" at some point. How did that affect FF?
Again, 20 levels with no defeats, now I'm having trouble getting through any mission without turning tail and running to the door and resummoning. The proof's in the pudding for me. I did an AE mission tonight with some CoT. Whenever a mage started throwing fire, it was one-shot city for the undead. I don't understand how making them so soft to fire and lethal is considered workable, because it's kind of hard to categorically avoid those damage types. At least the ninjas have super-reflexes baked in.
You guys probably know a thing or two about that: what types of foes should I be looking for in the twenties? I looked for Mooks, Trolls, and Warriors, but I kept level 20 as the cap. I also got a bunch of missions that auto-level that scale 45-54, which is apparently just an eight-stacked team can roll in and mop up. There's little moderation in what I saw.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, once you have six pets running around just grab the taunt from the presence pool. Thanks to everyone here, I use that power like mad, and it changes things immensely. Yeah, I take damage. And? I only take a tiny bit. By the time the mobs are down, I've regenerated that health back.
Seriously, get up to 24, grab presence, go to town.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not always wise, but it is a tactic. AoE sigs (Miss Liberty I'm looking at you) will shred you to ribbons with such tactics. Valkyre also has a NASTY targeted aoe... not sure why either since she's a meleer.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's why you don't stand in your pets if they have aoes. Bodyguard has like a 60 foot range so you can keep your pets out of aoe range pretty well.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
masterminds have lost no power from cov launch
[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder how folks can make statements like this. I mean, it's quite possible that over two years the design could shift and change in little, undramatic ways with a gradual impact that wouldn't be noticed to anyone who hasn't taken a big hiatus. Clearly the END cost of enchanting one measly zombie has been drastically increased, and that's a much bigger hassle than enchanting them in succession at the start of a mission (I have to do that with the bubbles anyway, so the enchant was just another button to cycle). Seems like a nerf more than a buff, as we're talking a power that could just as well cost zero END without inviting any balance problems, unless not having some END consumption problem to manage is considered unbalancing (and that may well be the devs' PoV).
I'm also wondering if the recharge time of PFF was two minutes last time I played either (I recall being able to give orders through the PFF, so I didn't have a constant need to drop it). I'm darn sure my undead survived battles a lot more easily than they do now--they're getting hit, and the bubbles just ain't mitigating the damage like they used to. Defenses were "rebalanced" at some point. How did that affect FF?
Again, 20 levels with no defeats, now I'm having trouble getting through any mission without turning tail and running to the door and resummoning. The proof's in the pudding for me. I did an AE mission tonight with some CoT. Whenever a mage started throwing fire, it was one-shot city for the undead. I don't understand how making them so soft to fire and lethal is considered workable, because it's kind of hard to categorically avoid those damage types. At least the ninjas have super-reflexes baked in.
You guys probably know a thing or two about that: what types of foes should I be looking for in the twenties? I looked for Mooks, Trolls, and Warriors, but I kept level 20 as the cap. I also got a bunch of missions that auto-level that scale 45-54, which is apparently just an eight-stacked team can roll in and mop up. There's little moderation in what I saw.
[/ QUOTE ]
i can make that statement and back it up. i have more 50 mm's than i do of any other at in this game across 4 accounts and have been playing them since cov launched.
the end change on the upgrade powers? nope not seeing it. ok if you are playing a stupidly squishy combination of primary and secondary and think that replacing a pet every 30 seconds is actually normal mastermind playstyle then yes - that would prob be an issue.
but not me. all of my masterminds go for high survivability and high damage. i replace pets very rarely no matter what i'm fighting. also, two end reduction io's or so's in both upgrades - and every build has the extra slots i dont care what your secondary is - eliminates this as a problem entirely.
none of my mm's, including my 50 necro/dark who doesnt have a single io in it - has no issue with the end costs of the upgrades and feels as powerful as it did at launch. the only real nerf we've seen has been to poison trap and it's not a nerf that made a direct impact on the overall at's power
so yes i can make that statement, and back it up handily.
as for ff - at level 20 i would grab some level 20 crafted defense io's for both shields and dispersion bubble. you did take dispersion bubble at 20 right? there's also room in a necro/ff build to have manuevers at this point and still not need stamina. the only time you shoujld be replacing pets at a high clip is if they are outside of your ffg/manuevers range.
something like this is what i would do
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 21 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Necromancy
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fitness
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Zombie Horde -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(9), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 1: Force Bolt -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Deflection Shield -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(3), DefBuff-I(9)
Level 4: Insulation Shield -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(5), DefBuff-I(11)
Level 6: Enchant Undead -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Teleport Foe -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(19)
Level 10: Maneuvers -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(11), EndRdx-I(19)
Level 12: Grave Knight -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(13), Dmg-I(13), Dmg-I(15), Dmg-I(15), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 14: Teleport -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 20: Dispersion Bubble -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 22: [Empty]
Level 24: [Empty]
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
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ytour pets are at ~29% defense to all but psi as long as you keep them within range of manuevers and dispersion bubble. you dont need pff unless you are a 'run to the end and click the glowy' newspaper mission runner.
come next patch you can pick up soul extraction sometime before then and put one extra slot in it, then save up some money for the recharge pet unique +5% defense and the normal pet unique +5% defense to give all of your pets ~39% defense to all but psi.
[ QUOTE ]
i can make that statement and back it up. i have more 50 mm's than i do of any other at in this game across 4 accounts and have been playing them since cov launched.[/
the end change on the upgrade powers? nope not seeing it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right, you've been playing CoV consistently, and whenever some change was made, you were there to adapt to it. That you brush off the change in how END is charged for enchanting minions seems evident of this.
As to "backing it up", you seem to do so mostly by disagreeing based on your own empriical evidence, and in pretty general terms ("the problems you mentioned don't happen to me"). I'd be happy to defer to your hefty experience, but it would entail some indicator of what you're doing right and what I'm doing wrong. Your next few paragraphs don't really move much in that direction--it's just a big "disagree" where you're telling me how content you are with your masterminds.
Skipping to the part where we can get into the nitty-gritty:
[ QUOTE ]
as for ff - at level 20 i would grab some level 20 crafted defense io's for both shields and dispersion bubble. you did take dispersion bubble at 20 right? there's also room in a necro/ff build to have manuevers at this point and still not need stamina. the only time you shoujld be replacing pets at a high clip is if they are outside of your ffg/manuevers range.
something like this is what i would do
[/ QUOTE ]
Nice. Your build is pretty close to mine. The only difference is that I haven't worked towards Stamina because the END problems aren't the kind that happen in mid-battle and are offset by a steady increase in END recovery. I't all happens in one big dump when I have to summon and bubble, which makes it a job for slotting END reducers. I went for Life Drain and Soul Extraction instead (of course, if you don't expect your zombies to die, I can see where the ghost would not come in handy). I've slotted 20 IO's for Defense and END reduction where possible.
[ QUOTE ]
ytour pets are at ~29% defense to all but psi as long as you keep them within range of manuevers and dispersion bubble. you dont need pff unless you are a 'run to the end and click the glowy' newspaper mission runner.
come next patch you can pick up soul extraction sometime before then and put one extra slot in it, then save up some money for the recharge pet unique +5% defense and the normal pet unique +5% defense to give all of your pets ~39% defense to all but psi.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, I'll go look for these pet IO's (IO's were just coming into existence when I left the game). But as to +29% defense, maybe that's just not good enough when the zombie is at -2 levels against some Lt. that's orange to me. Of course, even with 3 out of 4 attacks missing, it's still not a major source of mitgation if the one attack that connects annihilates them. That's still in the realm of "stupidly squishy".
Maybe my tactics were fidfferent back then. I was probably quicker to back off a badly-wounded pet than I am now. Whatever the case, I'm 22 and about to spend a respec so I can move some slots around and maybe dump Teleport for Flight.
before the change to the end cost of the upgrades, i took hasten on all of my mm's so that i could upgrade them faster at the start of a mission. this left me with no end, even on my io'd out mm's who were approaching 4.0 eps recovery.
with my current mm's, two level 45 end reduction io's in both upgrade powers makes them a non issue - assuming you have stamina. stamina reduces the time between ticks of endurance recovery. even on my traps which uses even less end than ff due to no toggles i pushed stamina off till 35, but i didnt skip it. for ff i always get stamina at 22.
soul extraction can likewise be put off until later. it's great to have the extra pet when it's needed especially when a tier 2 or tier 3 pet dies, but with near 30% defense in the build i proposed there they shouldnt die often. not even the tier 1's vs a +2 boss unless it's a boss with some form of tohit buff - something thankfully villains dont run into as often has heroes.
if you find yourself with end problems due to having to replace pets constantly and having to re-upgrade i would work towards improving their survivability as much as possible and as soon as possible. at 24 when your tier 2 and tier 3 drop down yet another level vs. you you'll be glad for it.
in recent months i've levelled two new mm's - thugs/pain and bots/pain. i didnt power level them (mm's powerlevel themselves). i always built for maximum pet survivability at the low levels and skipped any personal attacks.
Even without Stamina the summons and upgrades are no big deal on my Bots/Traps... I lose about a full bar of endurance summoning all three tiers, FFG, and using both upgrades, but if I just wait about 30 seconds before turning on any toggles it's fine. With good endurance slotting I can run all three Leadership toggles and still gain enough endurance to drop my traps. I do have to carry a few blues if I solo an AV to handle combat resummoning and Web Grenade spam, but it's no big deal. For non-AV fights I just wait and replace lost pets after the fight is over... one or two lost Battle Drones are not a big deal and it's very rare to lose more than that.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
[ QUOTE ]
zombies and ninjas in particular really have a rough time until they get their 2nd upgrade skill at 32.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was fine as soon as I got my second Grave Knight.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
So, after a hiatus of about two years, I reactivated my account and started playing my level 20 Necro/FF MM. This was a guy I considered pretty broken way back in the early days of CoV. The only toon I can say has never tasted defeat.
Things have really gone sour since then. Summoning, enchanting, and bubbling my pets takes more endurance than I have, even after slotting END reducers. PFF has a two-minute recharge, and pets can't even receive commands while it's up, calling its overall utility into question. The buff bubbles seem fairly ineffective at keeping my pets intact. I would send them out, watch their health bars disappear in huge chunks, then have to run to the door and resummon. It's a bad scene all around.
I find the exhorbitant END cost of Enchant Undead to be particularly pointless. What abuse does that high cost prevent? Why make it such an ordeal? The net effect is that if I lose one zombie in a fight, and then I resummon it, I have to decide whether or not to spend my END just to enchant that one minion.
And what's with all the enemies running away constantly? Is that something specific that enemies do againt MM's, or is that something red-side-specific? I certainly don't see so much running over on the blue side.
Maybe I only notice the difference because I've been away so long, but quality of MM life certainly seems to have taken a hit.
So, what is the current stat-of-the-union with MM's as a class? Are they considered overpowered, in need of love, or "just right"? Perhaps some combo thereof?