Time to take another look at Defenders
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2009-06-14 11:43 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
So um....
....has anyone realized that Defenders, in terms of buffing and debuffing, are not only packing the strongest versions of buffs and debuffs, but are also probably the strongest in MMOdom?
Defenders designed to have soloability will have soloability. The damn game says 'Hey, some powersets will solo and some will not' when you click on Defender. It's not hard. Take debuffs. Take blasts. Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls.
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So um....
....has anyone realized that Defenders, in terms of buffing and debuffing, are not only packing the strongest versions of buffs and debuffs, but are also probably the strongest in MMOdom?
Defenders designed to have soloability will have soloability. The damn game says 'Hey, some powersets will solo and some will not' when you click on Defender. It's not hard. Take debuffs. Take blasts. Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls.
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I don't have a problem with defenders as they stand either. I know people that solo EB's with Empaths with ease. I don't think defenders are as weak solo as people make them out to be.
I agree that Vig is about worthless (some utility in teams, totally useless solo), but Defenders as a whole are just fine IMHO.
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Here is a simple thought that basically keeps the benefit defenders are getting roughly the same but applies it a bit more evenly - give defenders a base end reduction that scales up for every member on thier team, kinda like the HEAT benefits. Maybe something like a 10% global end reduction all the time so they get SOME solo benefit and then an addition bonus (2%-5% say) per team member, regardless of the health of the team.
This gives the defender some benefit when solo and encourages teaming without giving more benefits to any one type of defender. It also has the benefit of being similar to an existing system (the HEAT benefits that accrue based on teammate AT) so that there is likely to be existing code that could be adapted.
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Any vigilence "solution" that forces a defender to have different slotting based on team size is not good. It's similar to tying Blaster/Scrapper damage to team size, Tanker defenses to team size, or Controller mez durations to team size. These are all things the devs could do if they wanted to force people into teaming rather than to continue to allow solo viability.
Kheldian Cosmic Balance has similar problems but at least it doesn't mess with how well (or not) your slotting works.
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A toggle (but only from the primary or secondary) could be set to simply continually renew the vigilence buff it provides. All toggles continually refresh.
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Just tossing out an alternative. If differences between primaries is an issue, Vigilence v2.MK could simply only be built by use of the Secondary. Blast sets have a lot in common, and would be easier to balance in that regard.
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A toggle (but only from the primary or secondary) could be set to simply continually renew the vigilence buff it provides. All toggles continually refresh.
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Just tossing out an alternative. If differences between primaries is an issue, Vigilence v2.MK could simply only be built by use of the Secondary. Blast sets have a lot in common, and would be easier to balance in that regard.
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I've always thought that any rework of vigilance should be a function based off of blasting, preferably with to encourage using your secondary powers (or lowering endurance cost or whatever). It would be an interesting dichotomy to have defenders saving on endurance because they're using their powers (assuming the end discount benefit was still applied, albeit in a defiance style mannerism). Even better would be some mechanic by which to encourage or improve blasting (re: +dam) by using one's secondary powers (toggles grant a small, non-stacking +dam per tick and click powers grant a larger quantity for a longer duration).
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Here is a simple thought that basically keeps the benefit defenders are getting roughly the same but applies it a bit more evenly - give defenders a base end reduction that scales up for every member on thier team, kinda like the HEAT benefits. Maybe something like a 10% global end reduction all the time so they get SOME solo benefit and then an addition bonus (2%-5% say) per team member, regardless of the health of the team.
This gives the defender some benefit when solo and encourages teaming without giving more benefits to any one type of defender. It also has the benefit of being similar to an existing system (the HEAT benefits that accrue based on teammate AT) so that there is likely to be existing code that could be adapted.
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Any vigilence "solution" that forces a defender to have different slotting based on team size is not good. It's similar to tying Blaster/Scrapper damage to team size, Tanker defenses to team size, or Controller mez durations to team size. These are all things the devs could do if they wanted to force people into teaming rather than to continue to allow solo viability.
Kheldian Cosmic Balance has similar problems but at least it doesn't mess with how well (or not) your slotting works.
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I should point out that Assassination also works off team size and works very well at that, arguably better then Critical Hit from Scrapper. Make Vigilance along those lines.
Example: Keep the current mechanic where the lower the team is getting, the higher chance this has to happen (including the defender in the max) with a base chance of, say, 10% (same as Stalker). As the team % gets lower, it increments upwards 1% for every average % of life lost on the team. When it activates, the target gets a "Vigilant" (power boosted) buff or debuff that also functions off the blasts too.
This gives something for everyone and means that the stronger sets with toggles, rad and dark, won't get the crits out of their stronger debuffs (the toggles) but can still get it off their blasts or click uses. Empaths get crit heals and things like force field will be encouraged to reapply buffs to get a bigger buff (albeit randomly) on their team, as well as their blasts.
The only ones that get moderately hosed are archery users, though TA's would get away like bandits.
I do think at some point in time defenders and corrupters will get another look in the damage department. I say this because the devs now realize its possible to create or alter a support AT and not have them do suck [censored] damage. Just look at VEATs and Doms (issue 15) respectively. So I guess the defender inherrent will get altered and scourge might change to happen more often.
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Vigilence nee Negligence is an extremely weak inherent. It provides wildly differing levels of benefit.
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I agree that solo, Vigilance doesn't do anything for us. I'd like to see it do *something* myself. I'm not convinced that it's a horrible inherent, though. I think it does what it was designed to do, which is give us a hand keeping toggles up, etc, when things start to go wrong.
That said, I'm sure it's not equal across all primaries. I'd bet Empathy gets more use out of it than, say, Force Field. But I think the same is true of other inherents: Scourge really goes well with AoEs, etc. Vigilance isn't particularly sexy, but I think it fits the defender theme pretty well.
I also don't have a problem with the idea that defenders have the weakest damage and/or are hardest to solo. I'd rather the ATs be different and interesting than all have to perform at the same level solo. Part of the charm of defenders, for me, is that they aren't solo machines. If scrappers solo AVs for a challenge, defenders, depending on type, solo at Invincible for a challenge or, for less soloable powersets, at something lower. There's still challenge to be had. In return for that, defenders have potential to be a huge addition to a team in a way that's harder for a scrapper to do.
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Any time a defender activates a power from their primary or secondary they get a vigilence buff that lasts 10 (perhaps 15 since many defender buffs take 2-3 seconds to cast) seconds that has the effect of reducing the defender's end costs by 5% AND reduces the recharge of their powers by 5%.
The defender can stack a maximum of 5 of these buffs at any one time capping the benefit from vigilence at a 25% reduction to end costs and recharge.
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I think giving defenders access to another 25% recharge reduction might well lead to some sort of recharge nerf to keep things in balance. Also, this would encourage using a lot of fast-activating powers to keep the buff going, which isn't something that would benefit the game, in my opinion. I don't want my defenders to feel like brutes.
In the end, I don't think defenders are underpowered or unbalanced. It would be nice if vigilance did something for the solo defender, but the AT isn't broken, in my opinion. It's just different.
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