Pool power for ranged character

Ranged characters need a pool power for status effects.
This is especially true for Defenders and Corruptors who can give status effect protection but are totally vulnerable to it.

I would like to ask for a simple pool power that provides status effect protection. This same pool power can also give status effect attacks too if need be.

Kind of like the self clear mind and the stun grenades. This will help ranged classes keep ranged since "Range is a defense", it only seems fair that ranged classes should have some way of preventing melee classes from getting close. Immunity to status effects and using status effects themselves is a good answer.

I report trolls.

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I report trolls.

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Good for you.

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Ranged characters need a pool power for status effects.
This is especially true for Defenders and Corruptors who can give status effect protection but are totally vulnerable to it.

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By that same logic, Tankers and Scrappers should have any mez protection because they can't dish out noticeable quantities of mez effects.

The ability to deal mez effects is not a reason to be given the ability to deal with them, especially since mez effects are, in and of themselves, a defensive mechanism. You'll either be able to mez a target or resist the mez effects themselves.

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I would like to ask for a simple pool power that provides status effect protection. This same pool power can also give status effect attacks too if need be.

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There's already a pool power that does this and it's probably the closest you're ever going to get: Acrobatics. Mag 9 KU/KB protection, mag 2 hold protection, and 48.44% hold resist. As to mez effects, Fighting gives you those: Stun from Boxing and KB from Kick.

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Kind of like the self clear mind and the stun grenades. This will help ranged classes keep ranged since "Range is a defense", it only seems fair that ranged classes should have some way of preventing melee classes from getting close.

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You seem to be forgetting that mez effects do precisely this. Use the immobilizes and other mez effects that the ranged ATs get and, even if they hit you with one, you'll still have them at range.

You're also completely misinterpreting "range is a defense". The first would be that ranged attacks in CoX are, in general, about 20% weaker than melee attacks. They do less damage. The second is that it's impossible be hit by melee attacks when you're out of melee range. Of course, if it were possible to keep a target at range no matter what they did, you'd have a perfect defense against melee, which is completely unfair. Melee needs to have a chance, which is why it's the prerogative of the ranged character to spend as much time at range as possible before the melee individual closes the distance.

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Immunity to status effects and using status effects themselves is a good answer.

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Immunity to status effects and being able to dish out those effects is... completely broken, especially since there is no logical means by which you can connect the two in terms of game balance. The two are completely opposed.

I heartily suggest you try to actually learn to play the game as well as figuring out what you're talking about before you start suggesting pool powers be put in game specifically to account for your personal inability to deal with an incorporated balance mechanic that everyone else has learned to deal with. Besides, the power pools don't exist to fix holes in the ATs. They exist to augment what you get from your AT power sets.

what umbral said. /unsigned to this idea. and incase you idn't know, you can get some mex resistance from io sets. you might want to look into those.

edit: oh, hey forb...do you have any popcorn? i ran out and haven't gotten to the store yet.

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I report trolls.

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Me have body by Superadine!

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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I heartily suggest you try to actually learn to play the game as well as figuring out what you're talking about before you start suggesting pool powers be put in game specifically to account for your personal inability to deal with an incorporated balance mechanic that everyone else has learned to deal with. Besides, the power pools don't exist to fix holes in the ATs. They exist to augment what you get from your AT power sets.

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^This^

...now back to under my bridge...

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I report trolls.

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But trolls are cute and cuddly, you can take them all home.

Did you think about how overpowered that would be? Not joking here, or bashing an idea just to bash an idea.

I have a Sonic/Devices hover-blaster with softcapped ranged defense. The ONLY weakness he has is a vulnerability to status effects. I can already avoid melee 99% of the time, so that's not an issue. If I was given the option of taking a power pool that granted status protection AND the ability to dish out mezzes as well, ON TOP of the mezzes I already have access to (2 stuns, KB, AoE sleep, ranged hold from APP, another sleep in APP, etc.) I would quite literally never die. Getting chain mezzed and not being able to use my more powerful attacks and mezzes is the only thing that gets me killed as it is.

Okay, a controller. Massive mezzing capability. Add MORE mezzing capability AND protection from it? Any controller that knows what they are doing can avoid mezzes most of the time as it is.

Making it a power pool would necessitate that everyone be given access to it. Including Kheldians.

The weaknesses the ATs have, they have for a reason. A fire/kin controller that is immune to being mezzed and has even MORE mez capability would be overpowered and I think you know it. My blaster example as stated above would be just as overpowered.

Also, controllers already have mez protection in the Psychic Mastery APP.

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what umbral said. /unsigned to this idea. and incase you idn't know, you can get some mex resistance from io sets. you might want to look into those.

edit: oh, hey forb...do you have any popcorn? i ran out and haven't gotten to the store yet.

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Sure but I hope you like Orville Redenbacher's. It's the only brand popcorn I buy.

"mex resistance"? Is that the ability to not get gas from Mexican food?

lol i just noticed that...yeah that to. sorry was a bit tired when i posted. and yes forb, orville is good with me. espescialy if it's the movie butter type. but i will settle for regular to.

I support the idea, this is why

Originally Tankers had pathetic melee attacks, and no ranged attacks. To compensate for the "in your face" form of life, they were given great damage resistance, great defense, and nearly absolute status effect resistances.

The Defender on the other hand, had weak ranged attacks and allegedly could boost herself. Truth is the boost that worth the effort are only for other players, obviosuly Defenders are too stupid to use powers on themselves. As a result of their puny ranged attacks, Defenders were given less hit points, no armor, no defense, and no status effect resistances. In fact a minion mob has more status effect resistances than the mush brained Defender.

This so called balance changed with the introduction of epic powers. Tankers now have availabel good ranged powers to include ranged AOEs. The Defenders got a mediocre smash and impale damage resistance, but no help in defense and absolutely none for status effects; really bad rebalancing here.

Because this balance has been done so poorly, I tend to agree with the poster that something needs to be done to help the semi-hero classes often refereed as "support" classes be heroic as they used to be before spam status effects were introduced. Going the pool route is acceptable, but actually not enterely fair. What needs to be done, is for the Defenders to be able to affect themselves, that would be much more simple an fairer. Melee classes gets to use 100% of both their power sets, Defenders gets severely short changed in their secondary power set.

Now for you smart ones out there, I know, Kinetic types don't have this problem as bad; They are the exception not the norm.

Hugs

Stormy

I'm pretty sure we are about even on the amount of Defender powers that boost themselves and Tank powers that boost the team.

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The Defenders got a mediocre smash and impale damage resistance, but no help in defense and absolutely none for status effects; really bad rebalancing here.

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Coming from a Scrapper, I wouldn't call 40% res(s/l) and 30% res(psi) mediocre. I similarly wouldn't call 40% res(s/l) and 22% res(neg/tox), 40% res(s/l) and 30% res(nrg), or 45% res (s/l) mediocre. Those are huge amounts of resistance from a single toggle, especially considering that you're paying less than 25% more for it than a Tanker would for that same amount of resistance. You're actually paying less for each point of resistance than a Scrapper would. Defenders and Controllers got awesome APPs, so don't try to claim that Tankers and Scrappers, which both got very mediocre and generally anemic APPs thanks to their scalars, got awesome APPs and the disparity needs to be made up.

Something else to keep in mind, Defenders and Controllers were never meant to be taking punches to the face so they don't get the tools to resist facepunchery. Mez protection is one of the primary tools that exists to actually allow melee types to stand around in melee. Giving it to everyone would pretty much negate the vast importance of that.

And don't try to bring up the low damage of Defenders as a reason every AT should get a pool for mez protection (re: useless to Scrappers and Tankers). Defenders and Controllers already get better scalars or use out of the existing power pools. They don't need to get one added to address an issue unique to them.

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The Defenders got a mediocre smash and impale damage resistance, but no help in defense and absolutely none for status effects; really bad rebalancing here.

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Coming from a Scrapper, I wouldn't call 40% res(s/l) and 30% res(psi) mediocre. I similarly wouldn't call 40% res(s/l) and 22% res(neg/tox), 40% res(s/l) and 30% res(nrg), or 45% res (s/l) mediocre. Those are huge amounts of resistance from a single toggle, especially considering that you're paying less than 25% more for it than a Tanker would for that same amount of resistance. You're actually paying less for each point of resistance than a Scrapper would. Defenders and Controllers got awesome APPs, so don't try to claim that Tankers and Scrappers, which both got very mediocre and generally anemic APPs thanks to their scalars, got awesome APPs and the disparity needs to be made up.

Something else to keep in mind, Defenders and Controllers were never meant to be taking punches to the face so they don't get the tools to resist facepunchery. Mez protection is one of the primary tools that exists to actually allow melee types to stand around in melee. Giving it to everyone would pretty much negate the vast importance of that.

And don't try to bring up the low damage of Defenders as a reason every AT should get a pool for mez protection (re: useless to Scrappers and Tankers). Defenders and Controllers already get better scalars or use out of the existing power pools. They don't need to get one added to address an issue unique to them.

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Help me here with your assertions, but what single power you are talking about that give defenders all those high levels of damage resistance, against so many different types of damages? I thought it was a choice of pairs at best.

I don't understand your use of "scalars" on their powers, can you please clarify or expand? And can you clarify the word "APP" I am thinking application, but not sure that is what you meant. What I can tell you, is that when I am trying to kill something with my Storm/Dark Defender, it takes me forever to drop a boss, my damage is nearly insignificant. I have never experienced such an issue with my Scrapers, bosses drop within 6 hits or less, not nearly thirty something hits as it happens with my dark/storm defender, maybe it just dark set of powers that have puny damage Defenders wise and gives a wrong appearance.

Also I would like to suggest if we could stop thinking binary here, that is all or nothing. Tankers get MAG-12 status ressitance, that is a controller's largest MAG attack being 3, would have to hit you (12/3=4+1) 5 times before they can even affect you. In practicality that is fair enough, Tankers gonna go get the entire aggroe and thus need it. But why should Defenders have "0"? They do draw aggroe too, why not give them the same mag resistance that a boss has (MAG 6), so it takes 3 applications of a mez to hold them down? This does not mean a defender is immune to status effects, it only means that they can also be heroic and take the periodic aoe status effect that hits them while they are trying to keep the tanke alive, also it means they could solo (when the player choses to) that they are not so totally helpless.

As a clarification, when I said it takes 3 applications to bring down the defender if they had a mag 6 resistance to mez, it still could happen in the same round if multiple mobs attaked the defender simultaneously, which is pretty common during ambushes which is always from the rear, where the defender would be.

Thank you

Stormy

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Help me here with your assertions, but what single power you are talking about that give defenders all those high levels of damage resistance, against so many different types of damages? I thought it was a choice of pairs at best.

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Each of those set ups is a different resistance toggle available from the defenders' Ancillary Power Pool (APP).

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I don't understand your use of "scalars" on their powers, can you please clarify or expand?

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Scalars are on the primary balancing methods used in the game and are the method used to determine a power's effectiveness at the various levels. For some examples, Blasters have a 1.125 ranged damage scalar. Scrappers have a .5 ranged damage scalar. With the same ranged attack power, a Scrapper would do ~45% of the damage of a blaster. The same functionality applies to resistance, defense, buffs, heals, melee damage, control effects, etc. ATs with a high scalar are going to get a greater benefit than an AT with a low scalar from powers that perform the function in question.

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What I can tell you, is that when I am trying to kill something with my Storm/Dark Defender, it takes me forever to drop a boss, my damage is nearly insignificant. I have never experienced such an issue with my Scrapers, bosses drop within 6 hits or less, not nearly thirty something hits as it happens with my dark/storm defender, maybe it just dark set of powers that have puny damage Defenders wise and gives a wrong appearance.

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Or, it could just be that you're comparing Scrappers, which are the soloing kings, to Defenders, which are rather mediocre (if not the worst in most cases) soloers. Of course the Scrapper is going to rip through the enemy faster, though it probably doesn't help that you're using Dark Blast which has anemic single target damage because it's more control/utility based. Scrappers have better damage. I don't however see any relationship between how long it should take to kill an enemy and the need for mez protection, especially since an intelligent defender will be using his buffs and debuffs to get rid of the need for most such things (re: use your knockback).

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Also I would like to suggest if we could stop thinking binary here, that is all or nothing. Tankers get MAG-12 status ressitance, that is a controller's largest MAG attack being 3, would have to hit you (12/3=4+1) 5 times before they can even affect you. In practicality that is fair enough, Tankers gonna go get the entire aggroe and thus need it. But why should Defenders have "0"? They do draw aggroe too, why not give them the same mag resistance that a boss has (MAG 6), so it takes 3 applications of a mez to hold them down? This does not mean a defender is immune to status effects, it only means that they can also be heroic and take the periodic aoe status effect that hits them while they are trying to keep the tanke alive, also it means they could solo (when the player choses to) that they are not so totally helpless.

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First off, Tankers get 12.975 mag of mez protection and bosses have 4 mag of mez protection, not 6. Secondly, controllers don't have a simple mag 3. They've got overpower, which is a chance for an additional mag 1 of the control on virtually all of their powers. Either way, player control capabilities and NPC control capabilities are vastly different. Critters != players where balance is concerned. Thirdly, mag 6, which you're suggesting, would actually provide immunity to most mez that comes your way within the confines of PvE. It's rare enough to have enemies that control heavily but it's even more rare to get enough enemies in a single group to actually chain control a player, especially if s/he is on a team (wherein s/he loses aggro unless there is a Taunt active). Lastly, mez protection is not needed for soloing. It's not needed for anything. The reasons Tankers and Scrappers get it is because they have to be in melee, and thusly exposed to additional risk, to accomplish anything. Being in melee is purely an option for Blasters, Defenders, and Controllers. They can operate at full or near full capacity while remaining at range the whole time. Lacking mez protection does not make someone "helpless" especially if they've got the debuffs and controls available to negate most enemies in the first place.

Keep in mind that you're asking for a power pool, not defender mez protection. Power pools should be useful to everyone. Sadly enough, giving extra mez protection to a Scrapper or Tanker would be largely useless except maybe for PvP since they've already got enough and would only be particularly useful to Blasters (which already have Defiance), Controllers, and Defenders.

It sounds to me like you simply need to learn to play the game. If you're running with a Storm/Dark, you'd be running fine if you actually knew how to use it. Hurricane, Tornado, numerous controls, and prolific debuffs should be more than enough to carry you through while solo and while on a team.

Here's something for you to think about: there's already a pool power with mez protection in game. It's called Acrobatics. It gives mag 9 KB/KU protection and mag 2 hold protection. That's all that the devs have been willing to give it. I don't think they're going to actually give it any more, much less create another power pool to do what it does only better, especially when the devs and those of the player base that actually know what they're doing see no real balance need for it.

Oh my Umbral, you need not to be so condescending...

Your cure all Acrobatics is not nearly as good as advertised, it does not help with stun which is the prvalent status effect used, the hold protection of Acrobatics is not that admirable, a boss will lock you down in one try, acrobatic or not. Acrobatics does not help with sleep another all too common status effect. So Acrobatics while it looks great, in practicality does not do much against the commonly used status effects.

I can solo with my Defender well enough, it just is boring when each encounter takes forever to complete. Status effects normally can be dealt thru hurricane by making the ACC of badies be really bad, but some status effects are sadly auto hit. I don't think mag-4 status effect makes me immune, you are exagerating there, by quite a large margin; it does make me much more resilient; there is no way at mag 4 a defender can be immune to any status effect when playing in say difficulty 3 level of mission, at that level yuo will have so many LTs and Bosses slamming you, that the puny 4 is mostly decorative. I will agree with you, at level 1, the most simple and supposed to be not challenging, the Defender would likely not have to worry much about status effects.

Once more, I challenge you to not think in black and white, but shades of grey.

Incidentally, originally when the game was created, Defenders were supposed to be a compromise between blasters and tankers, and ironically were given hit points in between the two. In time, that was taken away, and interesting changes done to the class. All I seek is some status effect protection, mainly for defenders. Blasters have been semi-fixed by being able to still combat despite of their status, controllers can get a status resist ability thru their epics; so whats so wrong to get a little status effect resistance for defenders?

Stormy

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Oh my Umbral, you need not to be so condescending...

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I'll stop being condescending when you start actually showing a deeper knowledge of the game mechanics and balance processes. My condescension is derived from having to constantly deal with people that are demonstrably lacking in knowledge and expertise while simultaneously making recommendations the would actually require a minimum level of this knowledge and expertise. If people actually knew what they were talking about (and, by extension, what I was talking about), I would speak on more equal and respectful terms.

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Your cure all Acrobatics is not nearly as good as advertised

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If you actually read what I posted, you'd see that I never posited Acrobatics as being a cure all. I stated that it's a pre-existing mez protection pool power that demonstrates the extent that the devs are actually willing to go to give players a pool mez protection power. Acrobatics is incredibly weak and is only serviceable for knockback/up protection (mag 2 hold protection will only save you from the very few mag 2 holds in the game). That's as good as you can hope for, especially since the context of this thread is a power pool for mez protection.

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I can solo with my Defender well enough, it just is boring when each encounter takes forever to complete. Status effects normally can be dealt thru hurricane by making the ACC of badies be really bad, but some status effects are sadly auto hit. I don't think mag-4 status effect makes me immune, you are exagerating there, by quite a large margin; it does make me much more resilient; there is no way at mag 4 a defender can be immune to any status effect when playing in say difficulty 3 level of mission, at that level yuo will have so many LTs and Bosses slamming you, that the puny 4 is mostly decorative. I will agree with you, at level 1, the most simple and supposed to be not challenging, the Defender would likely not have to worry much about status effects.

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The only requirement that the devs have stated for any AT is that it should be able to solo on heroic. You can solo on heroic. You don't need a new source of mez protection to solo on heroic. Hell, I've leveled a number of soft character without any mez protection and found it to be completely alright.

As to how much effect mag 4 protection is going to have, you first need to realize that the Scrapper and Tanker mez powers scale with level. They don't start out at double digit mag protection. Scrappers start with mag 6.3 when most of them first get their mez powers at level 16. Tankers, which get theirs
6 levels or more earlier, get only 6.375 at level 10. And from that point on, they don't get mez'd. The number of times that mezzes actually stack in PvE are incredibly rare, generally only happening at the high levels in which multiple enemies within an enemy group have mez affects available. Even then, it's not common to actually stack up these mez affects unless you're in a large group, at which point it's assumed that there should be some granted mez protection available (Clear Mind, Thaw, Clarity/Sonic Dispersion, Dispersion Bubble, Increase Density, etc.). Even just 4 mag of mez protection would provide immunity to virtually all control effects while soloing and a vast majority of mez effects while in a group.

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Once more, I challenge you to not think in black and white, but shades of grey.

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I am thinking in shades of gray but, thanks to the binary nature of mez affects, it's rather hard. Just because I don't agree with you because I'm actually looking at competent performance across a larger period of time and more diverse power selection doesn't mean I'm being obtuse. If anything, you're the one being obtuse because, rather than changing your play style to actually account for mez effects, which shouldn't just be shrugged off by the ATs that they're meant to be a threat to, or packing a few break frees when you solo, you're asking for an entire AT (or even all of the ATs, depending on the implementation) to be rebalanced around the presence of a completely new power pool made exclusively to service to your desire and the observed need (more appropriately, a want) to not have to deal with mez effects.

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Incidentally, originally when the game was created, Defenders were supposed to be a compromise between blasters and tankers

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Incidentally, when Jack Emmert originally created the game (re-early beta and prebeta, which you seem to be referring to because, even at release, defenders never had a particularly high pool of hit points), there weren't supposed to be ATs at all, weapon affects modified your basic attack, and origin had significant effect upon your effectiveness. The game is nothing like it was at release or even like it was in the game's early conception and design, which is a good thing. Bringing up what was original conceived rather than what the AT actually does now isn't really a good argument. The game is completely different now and those arguments are almost all completely inappropriate.

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,All I seek is some status effect protection, mainly for defenders. Blasters have been semi-fixed by being able to still combat despite of their status, controllers can get a status resist ability thru their epics; so whats so wrong to get a little status effect resistance for defenders?

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How about the fact that they don't need it? If everyone gets mez protection that allows them to ignore mez for a significant portion of the game, then it's pointless. Defenders don't need mez protection. You've be incapable of actually showing that. You want mez protection because there are situations you've put yourself in to that would have been easier had you had it. If you can actually show how Defenders are inordinately weaker because they lack mez protection (even though they don't; see Dispersion Bubble and Sonic Dispersion), then fine; bring those arguments up, but all you've served to show up til this point is that you don't like having to deal with one of the designated weaknesses of the AT that you're playing. You might as well be complaining for more and better melee AT ranged damage.

Umbral

Somehow I am finding you simply opinionated and perhaps quite arrogant. I do find in your words some amount of truth in fact, and unlike you, I am willing to give you credit for your knowledge and expertise; would be nice you could see that on others.

I will no longer try to explain my case, for its pointless.

stormy

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Somehow I am finding you simply opinionated and perhaps quite arrogant. I do find in your words some amount of truth in fact, and unlike you, I am willing to give you credit for your knowledge and expertise; would be nice you could see that on others.

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If you knew anything about me, you'd find me to be quite arrogant, incredibly opinionated, and horribly abrasive. Interestingly enough, two of those traits have a tendency to vanish when I'm not constantly correcting someone's gross errors and observational bias based on a small amount of flimsy anecdotal evidence or having to forcibly teach someone the fundamentals of game design and balance and the difference between a want and a need.

When dealing with people that actually know what they're talking about, I'm actually quite amicable and mostly polite and am willing to concede the correctness of a divergent opinion. The problem is that not only do you not know what you're talking about, you don't even have a solid base of evidence with which to make your case on if there even was a problem.

Can we bring back the game to it's original purpose?
How much fun is being stunned to death?
How much fun is being slept then stunned to death?
How much fun is it to watch someone that you protected from status effects die because you are stunned or sleeping and have already used your 48 Break Frees?
How much fun is it to fail to do your job because you are stunned?

See a common theme here?
FUN!
It is not fun to be able to do nothing, especially when it is your responsibility to protect and buff others.
It is sad that Defenders and Corruptors for the most part are useless in a battle with status effects. We put status effects on others then spend the rest of the encounter stunned or asleep, unless we get unlucky and then we spend it defeated.

The issue is not numbers, calculations or some other off the wall variable, it is FUN! It is not fun to be useless in a fight. Most groups will not let you just exit a mission to get replenish on Break Frees every other encounter.

Once people remember that a game is supposed to be fun then suddenly things like letting Defender buff themselves and other factors make sense.
As long as you live in a world of balance where number value means more than entertainment value you lose the real reason that games are invented. FUN!

I totally agree with this idea. Only if every single mob also has access to the same pool that is requested.

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Can we bring back the game to it's original purpose?
How much fun is being stunned to death?
How much fun is being slept then stunned to death?
How much fun is it to watch someone that you protected from status effects die because you are stunned or sleeping and have already used your 48 Break Frees?
How much fun is it to fail to do your job because you are stunned?

See a common theme here?
FUN!
It is not fun to be able to do nothing, especially when it is your responsibility to protect and buff others.
It is sad that Defenders and Corruptors for the most part are useless in a battle with status effects. We put status effects on others then spend the rest of the encounter stunned or asleep, unless we get unlucky and then we spend it defeated.

The issue is not numbers, calculations or some other off the wall variable, it is FUN! It is not fun to be useless in a fight. Most groups will not let you just exit a mission to get replenish on Break Frees every other encounter.

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How fun is it then if everything is mind-numbingly safe?? The changes you're proposing aren't going to happen. Said changes would completely unbalance the strengths/weakness of the various AT's. Instead of directing your energy (and frustration) lobbying for a new power pool, learn how to be more effective with your problem AT's here.

They should totally program the NPCs to think stunned and sleeping players are less worthy targets.

Or give defenders some kind of huge bubble that would offer mez protection to anyone inside. Or mabye some metabolic type buff that would at least lower the amount of time you are mezed.