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anyone have any suggestions?
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Build it yourself and don't listen overly much to other people's opinions on the subject.
�Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.� ― John Wayne
�Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!� - George Carlin
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anyone have any suggestions?
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Build it yourself and don't listen overly much to other people's opinions on the subject.
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that isnt going to fly, because i haveno first hand knowledge of what has been added heroside since issue 5.
i want to be able to tank every tf in the game available to heroes
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for the primary - i want a primary that can tank every task force in the game without major issues that isnt stone.
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if it's a resist primary, it has to be able to deal with large spawns of all dmg types.
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Despite the much-mentioned 'psi hole', I have yet to find anything I can't handle with my invuln. I've tanked the Malaise and Mother Mayhem missions/AV's and Lord Recluse in the STF.
I've only used dark armor on a scrapper, but suspect it might fit your requirements also.
I have yet to try any really hard stuff on a defense based tank. Not after doing the ITF with my invuln with the combat monitor running and watching the Cimerorans get him down to -100 base defense. So I can't really evaluate def-based sets for the tough stuff.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Each set has it's strong points and weaknesses. I'd say figure out more specifically what you want other then being able to tank any TF and the leveling curve variations from 22-50
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anyone have any suggestions?
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Invuln is pretty idiot-proof. But then, there's always a better idiot lurking around out there.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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for the primary - i want a primary that can tank every task force in the game without major issues that isnt stone. it has to be well rounded and able to tank all of the dmg types in the game. i dont want a primary that 'well it can tank this with this particular io setting', i want something that will work from 22 to 50 with equal or near equal effectiveness. if it's a defense primary, it has to be able to deal with devouring earth and the shadow shard. if it's a resist primary, it has to be able to deal with large spawns of all dmg types.
anyone have any suggestions?
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I almost suggest shield, as you can easily softcap melee/range/aoe defense (which covers your requirement of large spawns of all damage types). Invul/ is great, but its an SL god, but you will feel the sting of other damage types (Recluse blades were laughable, but his energy blasts, ouch!).
In general, I'd go invul/.
As for SS eyeballs and DE crystals those are to-hit buffs for them. Cant help you with defense.
Next, I'd go dark. Meh resistance, poor defense, but ungodly heals, stun aura, fear aura (which stacks very nicely with presense pool), etc. Overall, it has great survivability, but you must be much more active in managing your powers
edit: all my tankers can tank all the existing TF's (sans STF), but (exception of granite), my invul/ does it best (even the STF).
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
playing around with willpower and invuln in mids, i noticed that willpower can get 70% smash/lethal resists.
ignoring the taunt aura discrepency, can willpower tank the ITF?
Definitely, and since you're fire you'll have decent early AoEs for taunting...If you're willing to spend some money on IOs you can also cap defense to all damage types but psi with willpower and still have the resist/regen.
I'd recommend willpower if you're willing to spend some money at 50, and invuln if you don't like spending the money. Both can handle the various 20-40 TFs well enough.
PS I feel like I know you from the tanker channel. I used to go there during I4, were you in there too?
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
i was in most of the global channels back then
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anyone have any suggestions?
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Build it yourself and don't listen overly much to other people's opinions on the subject.
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Bingo!
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playing around with willpower and invuln in mids, i noticed that willpower can get 70% smash/lethal resists.
ignoring the taunt aura discrepency, can willpower tank the ITF?
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Sigh. Yes I tanked the ITF at L44 SK'd up on my WP Tanker.
Taunt aura doesn't mean squat.
Just play the damned toon and stop worrying about what you can on Mids.
Hey OP, how come there is no love for stone?
Stone if you take the armors (at least all but brimstone), is actually a pretty decent set even outside of granite..
And then you've got granite for the worst of situations.
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
I can tank every TF and every AV in the game on Will Power. However, there is always going to be a weakness to something on any tanker build. With IOs and inspiration management in key situations you can make up for those weaknesses. For my WP, it gets rough when I run into alot of -regen.
Good luck with your new tanker and have fun.
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
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playing around with willpower and invuln in mids, i noticed that willpower can get 70% smash/lethal resists.
ignoring the taunt aura discrepency, can willpower tank the ITF?
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Sigh. Yes I tanked the ITF at L44 SK'd up on my WP Tanker.
Taunt aura doesn't mean squat.
Just play the damned toon and stop worrying about what you can on Mids.
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i worry about what can tank the ITF and STF more than anything else.
i dont give two craps about peoples concepts, only what actually works. having not done the itf on either side nor the stf, i want a toon i can not only do them on but lead them on and i've decided that's to be a tanker. so the tanker needs to be able to tank them both.
can a willpower with tough and weave tank them both
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For my WP, it gets rough when I run into alot of -regen.
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then be glad heroes dont fight longbow.
I have tanked STF on a Willpower tanker, several times.
Probably not my first tank of choice - I'd go with Invuln over WP for that specific TF - but WP's so much easier to level and play. So long as it isn't a Master run, just have fun with it. The STF is not a test of tanker skill or primary durability; it's a test of how much recharge your pocket healer has.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Yeah although you'd have to work up to the STF with IO sets to do it comfortably (ITF is easy for a WP Tanker with T&W).
WP's only problem (as noted above) is -regen which I haven't seen a lot in the game and extremely large alphas and/or ranged alphas.
Having said all that, I can't say specifically if you wouldn't have more problems with the Fire secondary since that precludes all forms of mitigation. My WP Tanker has Stone Melee as a secondary which gives really good mitigation, which helps WP a lot imo.
i already have a sm/wp brute. not trying to duplicate that blueside. i think the smaller dmg numbers would make me pine for the brute too much
but brute is pretty squishy. can only hit 49% smash/lethal with tough. harder to get a decent amount of defense. withouth a sonic or thermal corruptor large spawns of lethal or smashing dmg that are immune to either the knockdown or stun of fault - or both - destroy the wp brute.
be glad you dont have to fight longbow. every pack has minions that do something on the order of -1000% regen from range for 30s.
i like wp though. pretty straightforward. easy on the end. i was considering super strength but without fury to fuel it i dont think i would be happy with any tanker that does smashing or lethal dmg primarily come late game. i'm not looking for a soloing powerhouse but i've been on ae farms with my controllers and defenders where the tankers couldnt kill a spawn of lt's on their own any faster t han my ff/rad defender in so's.
i had considered invuln too especially with the tasty tidbit that is gaussian chance for build up in invincibility. either set will be expensive to build for decent amount of typed defense i have no illusions about that. but i also cant ignore the fact that willpower on a tanker has really good defensive numbers, really high hitpoints as additional mitigation that are always on vs. a click power and a tier 9 that doesnt leave me open and vulnerable when it crashes if i lag and cant time the blue pills accordingly to keep the toggles going.
i also dont want to duplicate the stone melee end costs. i had to slot up over 4.20 eps before the endurance burned from 7 toggles and an attack chain with only 20% global recharge was sustainable, and even then for most eb's and av's i have to chug blue pills with some regularity. i may consider ss because outside of the rage and hasten crashes it's attack chain is pretty light on endurance - but fire is something i havent done since issue 4 and i'd like to explore it some. besides - sarrate doesnt seem to have mitigation issues as wp/fire
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i worry about what can tank the ITF and STF more than anything else.
i dont give two craps about peoples concepts, only what actually works. having not done the itf on either side nor the stf, i want a toon i can not only do them on but lead them on and i've decided that's to be a tanker. so the tanker needs to be able to tank them both.
can a willpower with tough and weave tank them both
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JupiterMoon: Yes, yes it can.
I will say that an important aspect of being able to tank something is experience and being able to react to a changing situation. This may mean preparing and knowing when to use inspirations - even if you usually don't need them.
For example, even with softcapped defense, Recluse will cream WP. If you know that his damage/tohit at the start of the fight is insane and take the requisite precautions (ex: using SoW, eating purples up to 75% def) then you'll be fine.
The biggest thing to remember about WP is that the taunt aura is weak, so you need to be very proactive about holding aggro.
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then be glad heroes dont fight longbow.
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JupiterMoon: They do in Gaussian's arc in the RWZ. 
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it's a test of how much recharge your pocket healer has.
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Heraclea: That can help, but I think it's more a matter of the strength available buffs/debuffs. With the right group, I've done it without a healer at all. :P Last STF I was on, the Emp attacked the tower 90% of the time rather than heal me because I simply didn't need to be babysat. (Last run consisted of Cold/Sonic shields, a tray full of t2 purples, and a heavy IO build.)
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JupiterMoon: They do in Gaussian's arc in the RWZ.
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correction then: be glad yo udont fight them in EVERY MISSION post 40, and some missions being nothing but spawns of spec-ops.
do heroes have any enemy groups that with a normal spawn can reduce your regen to 0, drain 30 end from that same grenade attack, and debuff all resists 40%?
More than Longbow I hated those Vanguard guys. I think they were wizards? They are pretty rough.
To emphasize what Kruunches said, damage mitigation is a must with WP. SS is not so bad on damage once you get foot stomp and with enough recharge you can double or even triple stack rage.
Just hate to see you get to 50 with a WP/Fire and find it not being able to do what you are looking for.
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
well unless you are fortunate with the timing, knockdown is nearly useless for most mob spawns in cimerora and since you cant actually knock down most eb's and av's i dont consider it as important for a tanker on a team than a soloing brute.
so in building a tanker that can tank the itf and stf at 50 with a respectable io loadout while not making me want to pull my hair out leveling it up. and having played ss and sm on a brute i...i dont think i would be happy with them on a tanker. it would make me want to play my brutes too much and i'm trying to break my redside addiction here.
and lets not forget one little tidbit that annoyed me on my brute as stone melee - some stunned mobs will wander out of rttc range..and then sit there out of range cycling their ranged attacks. at least brutes get an ae immob.
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i already have a sm/wp brute. not trying to duplicate that blueside. i think the smaller dmg numbers would make me pine for the brute too much
but brute is pretty squishy. can only hit 49% smash/lethal with tough. harder to get a decent amount of defense. withouth a sonic or thermal corruptor large spawns of lethal or smashing dmg that are immune to either the knockdown or stun of fault - or both - destroy the wp brute.
be glad you dont have to fight longbow. every pack has minions that do something on the order of -1000% regen from range for 30s.
i like wp though. pretty straightforward. easy on the end. i was considering super strength but without fury to fuel it i dont think i would be happy with any tanker that does smashing or lethal dmg primarily come late game. i'm not looking for a soloing powerhouse but i've been on ae farms with my controllers and defenders where the tankers couldnt kill a spawn of lt's on their own any faster t han my ff/rad defender in so's.
i had considered invuln too especially with the tasty tidbit that is gaussian chance for build up in invincibility. either set will be expensive to build for decent amount of typed defense i have no illusions about that. but i also cant ignore the fact that willpower on a tanker has really good defensive numbers, really high hitpoints as additional mitigation that are always on vs. a click power and a tier 9 that doesnt leave me open and vulnerable when it crashes if i lag and cant time the blue pills accordingly to keep the toggles going.
i also dont want to duplicate the stone melee end costs. i had to slot up over 4.20 eps before the endurance burned from 7 toggles and an attack chain with only 20% global recharge was sustainable, and even then for most eb's and av's i have to chug blue pills with some regularity. i may consider ss because outside of the rage and hasten crashes it's attack chain is pretty light on endurance - but fire is something i havent done since issue 4 and i'd like to explore it some. besides - sarrate doesnt seem to have mitigation issues as wp/fire
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That's strange ... my WP/Stone Tanker is hovering around 3.8 eps, has a global recharge of 40% (and Hasten on top of that) and doesn't dent his blue bar. Weird.
I favor Invuln over WP for end game stuff simply by that point even a moderately built Inv Tanker can take on stuff that a well built WP Tanker will sweat their support on.
Both can do any TF (as noted) but one is much easier to build then the other, in terms of pure tanking. WP is much easier to play and slot for however (imo).
P.S. - I don't find WP Tankers expensive to get up to STF levels comfortably. I think I spent 40 mil on mine and he doesn't really need much more of anything right now (at least that I've faced).
JupiterMoon: Now I won't argue that, I was just being overly technical there. Sorry, habit.
Grae_Knight: WP benefits greatly from mitigation from your secondary, no doubt, especially before IOs/Tough/Weave. After IOs (as it seems JM would go for) their benefit becomes less useful. A couple inspirations can pretty much cover you during tough fights (if you're not against using them) and in [edit: certain] tough fights (like AVs or tight packs of romans) the mitigation does nothing since they resist it so heavily.
I personally think /Fire pairs with WP very well (especially once IOs are added to the mix), but I won't say that it's absolutely the best build. It really depends on what you're going for. (For survivability vs AVs, DM wins because of SL. For survival against most mobs, Stone Melee wins due to Fault.)
[edit: Btw, I'd highly recommend taking SoW. It's invaluable for the ITF and can easily tip the balance between incoming damage and your regen in your favor. I like saving it for when I'm lower on life (~30%?) and regenerating back to full. 90% s/l res is no joke.]
so now that i've done everything red side at least twice, it's time to come back blue side.
i havent played heroes since cov launched so it's actually going to feel fresh to me - kinda.
anyway i've decided to make a new tanker and i need the communities help building it.
i've already decided on fire as the secondary.
for the primary - i want a primary that can tank every task force in the game without major issues that isnt stone. it has to be well rounded and able to tank all of the dmg types in the game. i dont want a primary that 'well it can tank this with this particular io setting', i want something that will work from 22 to 50 with equal or near equal effectiveness. if it's a defense primary, it has to be able to deal with devouring earth and the shadow shard. if it's a resist primary, it has to be able to deal with large spawns of all dmg types.
anyone have any suggestions?