If you want to get all technical with what you did or didn't say, you didn't even call it powerful. You called it "amazing."
You're taking one line in his post out of context and arguing semantics. If you would read his whole post instead of getting upset over that single line you would see what he was saying.
I'd take a boss over a mob any day.
If you're fighting a mob, you concentrate on the mob, not the boss. It's the mob that will kill you faster than the boss.
I'm not upset but your point is taken.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Whatever fits best with your playstyle. I wouldn't argue with anyone that says DM or Elec. I feel that Elec is the most powerful for my playstyle, but YMMV.
@Quarktease
The Unofficial Official of Nothing Official
Proud member of Nites of Darkness/Shut Your Pie Hole
[ QUOTE ]
I'd take a boss over a mob any day.
If you're fighting a mob, you concentrate on the mob, not the boss. It's the mob that will kill you faster than the boss.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not even close to accurate. When bosses have higher accuracy, higher mez protection and vastly superior damage to minions, bosses are the threat, even if minions outnumber them 7-1. Additionally, what's always left standing in a team setting? The minions, or the bosses? The latter in nearly all situations.
The point: AoE is taken care of in team settings. Stalkers should focus more on single target threats. Elec can fill the AoE role and contribute single target damage in meaningful chunks, but can do neither more effectively than a Corruptor in the long run. A DM Stalker, on the other hand, can outdamage essentially all CoV ATs short of a full-Fury-and-damage-buffed Brute against single targets in both burst and DoT.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Ah, I thought you were talking in general terms, not stalker-specific. Which I guess makes sense since we're in the stalker forum..
[ QUOTE ]
A DM Stalker, on the other hand, can outdamage essentially all CoV ATs short of a full-Fury-and-damage-buffed Brute against single targets in both burst and DoT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm sorry, but the rhetoric is just getting silly now. I know you like the DM Kool-Aid. I've had a sip or two myself in the past and I must say, it is indeed yummy. Could you put it down for 2 seconds and back up this little nugget with some proof? Perhaps a video? I'm not much of a numbers guy, so if you could please type slowly so that my fellow meatheads that don't possess your wisdom can comprehend?
@Quarktease
The Unofficial Official of Nothing Official
Proud member of Nites of Darkness/Shut Your Pie Hole
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A DM Stalker, on the other hand, can outdamage essentially all CoV ATs short of a full-Fury-and-damage-buffed Brute against single targets in both burst and DoT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm sorry, but the rhetoric is just getting silly now. I know you like the DM Kool-Aid. I've had a sip or two myself in the past and I must say, it is indeed yummy. Could you put it down for 2 seconds and back up this little nugget with some proof? Perhaps a video? I'm not much of a numbers guy, so if you could please type slowly so that my fellow meatheads that don't possess your wisdom can comprehend?
[/ QUOTE ]
If it were about four months ago, I'd probably acquiesce, but as it is now, I simply don't feel it's important enough to prove my point to slog through hours of calculations. While it's likely less safe to have made the quoted claim, I don't think it's rocket science to figure out that between the tremendously fast cast times and the new Siphon Life, DM reigns solely supreme against all challengers in Stalker single target damage output.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
I had a crazy elec/nin stalker on my lib farm a while ago, he was just insane, I couldn't believe he was keeping up with me, and Im a SS/FIRE, whew that's nuts.
I'd say nin/nin is a solid pve build. Good damage and /nin is a lot of fun 
Oh...if any dev's are reading.....remove Gamler's Cut and add The Lotus Drops please 
claws/sr is fun
and thats all you need in this game...FUN.
if your not having it then you need to find it.
QR
My Elec/Nin can take down Bosses pretty well... All I do is BU + LR into the spawn, AS the boss, Placate and Thunderstrike(minions are usually dead after TS). Thunderstrike does huge damage on whatever you are targeting (especially if the Energy damage part crits). The boss is usually pretty beat up by then and on the ground most of the time, so I can just finish him off with CI, Havoc Punch, Dark Blast, and maybe a vet attack if they resist Energy damage or something missed.
Sure, its not as fast or quite as safe as a DM, but I also killed most/all of the other mobs at the same time. Not to mention that most teams out there are AE farms where AoE is more useful anyway.
I would say Elec/Nin and DM/Nin are pretty equal, it just depends on what you want to do. I personally like Elec more because I dont like beating up one thing at a time when there are 10+ other guys right next to me.
*/nin gets basically a second placate in the form of smoke bomb if used correctly. That in and of itelf imho makes /nin right at the top of stalker secondaries.
As for primaries had you asked me several months ago about DM i'd have called you insane for even suggesting it. i'd tried it on tankers, scrappers, brute and a stalker or 2 and couldn't stand it. When MA came out a frined of mine told me ot get creative and pick 2 power sets for a tanker (this isn't the tanker forum but i'm making a point here) I hadn't considered before. That in turn lead to the creation of the toon i've had the most fun leveling to date in the high 40 month count low 50 month count i've been playing for. DM these days is insane, not only does it have utility (heal and fear goodness anyone) but it also puts out solid dmg which caught me off guard at first but i've came to really like about it.
DM basically makes my Ice Armor/DM tank unkillable. If your going to select a defense based secondary for the stalker DM is your best choice especially if you select a set with no heal in it already. combine it with the tools from /nin and you literally have a killing machine. i've gone into hidden mode and gotten off AS's mid fight just becuase stuff went so long without hitting me.
But hopefully that helps some.
I guess "most powerful PvE" stalker is just be be a matter of opinions and taste. Yeah, DM is a powerful primary but it's mostly single target and is touted generally for its cool AS animation. I have a 47 DM/nin and while its fun to play, my DB/nin and my elec/nin fit the PvE scene better. For me anyways as I tend to group a lot and BU + LR + TS or BU + 1kcuts + sweeping strike seems more efficient than a series of single target attacks. In fact I'm honestly trying to remember the last time I used AS after the I12 stalker changes went into effect...
What does one define as "most powerful"? Soloing an AV or a pylon? Or just simply doing paper missions? I don't think the former happens too often and for the latter -any- combo will work. Yes some have more tools than others or different damage types, some might be more effective vs a certain type of target but in the long run it's about having fun. So just pick whatever you think suits ya and go kick some tail!
I'm always surprised when people put elec above spines for AoE damage output. Do jacob's ladder and thunderstrike's pbaoe really make up for the slow recharge on LR?
I just always figured that at perma-hasten levels, LR will recharge in about ~24.8 seconds, while throw spines is up in 3.25.
Does having the extra burst damage (and awesome animation) on a stalker really outweigh being able to use that ranged cone every few seconds? Because I just can't see how LR would do more damage over time than throw spines, especially when you can buildup+TS+placate<gap>TS.
I believe another thing they like about LR is that it doesn't break hide, iirc technically its a psuedopet doing the damage and not you.
I have no experience playing an elec stalker but having seen one in action (elec/EA/Mu) I'll say they can be pretty beastly. I love my DM(/EA/Lev) stalker more then I thought I would and he is quite capable as well. I'd hesitate to say one is inherently superior to the other, but I would definately say that they excel at different things.
So where does Claws fall on the PvE usefulness scale for stalkers? I assume it's going to be much more of a scrappy set that lacks in damage spikes...
I guess it would come down to how crippling the pure lethal damage was in late game CoV?
Virtue:
Miserya - 50 EM/ELA Brute (Perma-shelved)
Adriana Rayne - 42 Katana/Dark Scrapper
Cyberpulse - 26 Super Strength/Willpower Brute
Steel Heart - 24 Invuln/Super Strength Tanker
[ QUOTE ]
I'm always surprised when people put elec above spines for AoE damage output. Do jacob's ladder and thunderstrike's pbaoe really make up for the slow recharge on LR?
I just always figured that at perma-hasten levels, LR will recharge in about ~24.8 seconds, while throw spines is up in 3.25.
Does having the extra burst damage (and awesome animation) on a stalker really outweigh being able to use that ranged cone every few seconds? Because I just can't see how LR would do more damage over time than throw spines, especially when you can buildup+TS+placate<gap>TS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its because it doesn't break hide, so you can do BU+LR and then while still in hide you can use TS, and any minions in the spawn are dead, and LTs are seriously hurt. Then if you want you can Placate and AS any bosses because LR and TS probably knocked most of the mobs down.
[ QUOTE ]
So where does Claws fall on the PvE usefulness scale for stalkers? I assume it's going to be much more of a scrappy set that lacks in damage spikes...
I guess it would come down to how crippling the pure lethal damage was in late game CoV?
[/ QUOTE ]
claws/ for stalkers is a nice, fun, scrappy set with good knockdown tools in focus and shockwave. good burst with build up and AS of course.
the downside is, it's all lethal damage. you won't notice it until everything you fight (like the heaps and heaps of longbow and rikti and arachnos and... god, everything.) has insane lethal resistance.
it's at that point that you either suck it up and fight every damn minion+ for a few minutes, or reroll. sad but true.
although you will enjoy carnie carnage. that's about it late game.
"Scrappers don't want the bit of dignity that Brutes left them taken away by (lol)Stalkers." -Delta_Strider, on Stalker buffs.
Current Project: Hard Goodbye, StJ/Nin
Retired: Blitzwulf, Claws/Nin (50); Perdition's Blade, Night Widow (50)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pve wise elec has no equal, seriously yo try a hidden thunderstrike and AS and entire group of ppl all at once, its sick.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then you try and kill a boss, and just stand there spamming AS because you don't have any REAL single target damage...
[/ QUOTE ]
Im an elec nin, and am loving it because I dont have that problem quite as bad thanks to sands of mu and nemi staff.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm always surprised when people put elec above spines for AoE damage output. Do jacob's ladder and thunderstrike's pbaoe really make up for the slow recharge on LR?
I just always figured that at perma-hasten levels, LR will recharge in about ~24.8 seconds, while throw spines is up in 3.25.
Does having the extra burst damage (and awesome animation) on a stalker really outweigh being able to use that ranged cone every few seconds? Because I just can't see how LR would do more damage over time than throw spines, especially when you can buildup+TS+placate<gap>TS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Also, I have to say this, I love your avatar. Puppy in an imperial legion helmet for the win! I wonder when/if we are getting another Elder Scrolls...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pve wise elec has no equal, seriously yo try a hidden thunderstrike and AS and entire group of ppl all at once, its sick.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then you try and kill a boss, and just stand there spamming AS because you don't have any REAL single target damage...
[/ QUOTE ]
Im an elec nin, and am loving it because I dont have that problem quite as bad thanks to sands of mu and nemi staff.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just tend to use AS+LR+TS and scrap out the rest with Mu Bolts, Chain Induction and Havoc Punch until AS recharges again; usually the boss dies during the second AS, Placate or not, unless they're highly resistant (Malta are annoying).
Sure, it's mildly slower than some of the other sets but it's not cripplingly so, the damage type being energy helps when compared to the lethal sets, and your AoE splash damage taking out smaller mobs while you're killing the boss will generally make up for the difference in time killing them. I rarely use the vet reward powers past level 26 since by then I have everything in a normal attack chain.
It does make a difference that I aimed for softcapping mine, though - I very rarely get interrupted on AS and can use it as an extra hitter. Even without a critical it's the hardest hitting attack in the set and better single-target DPA than Havoc Punch or Thunder Strike.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A DM Stalker, on the other hand, can outdamage essentially all CoV ATs short of a full-Fury-and-damage-buffed Brute against single targets in both burst and DoT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm sorry, but the rhetoric is just getting silly now. I know you like the DM Kool-Aid. I've had a sip or two myself in the past and I must say, it is indeed yummy. Could you put it down for 2 seconds and back up this little nugget with some proof? Perhaps a video? I'm not much of a numbers guy, so if you could please type slowly so that my fellow meatheads that don't possess your wisdom can comprehend?
[/ QUOTE ]
If it were about four months ago, I'd probably acquiesce, but as it is now, I simply don't feel it's important enough to prove my point to slog through hours of calculations. While it's likely less safe to have made the quoted claim, I don't think it's rocket science to figure out that between the tremendously fast cast times and the new Siphon Life, DM reigns solely supreme against all challengers in Stalker single target damage output.
[/ QUOTE ]
I normally are right in with you A_C... but I think this is a pretty stupid argument.
You're comparing apples to oranges.
DM is ST, ElM is AoE.
That's what they were designed to do.
Your real argument is this:
Based on the function of a stalker (where both arguments have different subjective views on this), which is the more appropriate set.
I think the clear answer is DM... since a stalker is supposed to take out the heavy targets. Leave a brute to SMASH. I'm a stalker.... I'm precise and deadly.
However, they introduced ElM to stalker to give it another option other than ST only.
Whereas I believe that ElM is counter-intuitive. I do believe it's fun for some people. I do agree that it's more powerful in mowing down minions.
However, when the question is power, you have to assume the OP wants to fall back on the role of a stalker.
Which is the most powerful STALKER while performing his role?
Answer is DM.
Which is the most powerful PvE stalker?
Answer is undefined.
Most powerful PvE is too vague.. It cannot be answered. We need more input from the OP. Does he want a minion mower, or a boss assassin?
Like I said you put in an "opposite" vote to my statement that DM was powerful, which basically meant it was NOT powerful.
At NO time did I say it was THE most powerful and you know it.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.